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[smeeprocket]

Well, aren't you?

Do you not state your opinions as facts that are moral judgements that videogames should follow? Standards that should be kept?

The difference isn't that you are the only one dictating things. It is that I disagree with your standards.

disagreeing with me doesn't require you to make wild accusations and general disapproval of how I post.

It's unnecessary and does not further the discussion.

My opinions are morally based, that is true, that does not make them wrong or mean I'm dictating anything.

As I said, I do not have the power to do that. I am well within my rights to express my opinion on the matter, however. Just as much as you are.

edit: what I'm saying is that certain complaints are based on my gender, yes. Or perhaps on the nature of my argument. Not necessarily intentionally, but arguing that I dictatorial or censoring anything is ridiculous and an obvious attempt to shut me down or trivialize my view.

[Neonivek]

What do you mean? I am dictating things all over the place.

Videogames do NOT have any compunction to be realistic or unrealistic or anything in between.

I whole heartedly disagree with your statement that because it is a videogame it can stretch its reality enough to break its own setting because videogames are unrealistic.

Or rather just because a game has one element of unrealism, especially when it is just a gaming convention created because doing it any other way would be tedious and unfun, doesn't mean it must follow the same stream of unrealism.

[smeeprocket]

What do you mean? I am dictating things all over the place.

Videogames do NOT have any compunction to be realistic or unrealistic or anything in between.

They don't have any compunction to do anything. What does that have to do it?

Do we just not discuss it then? Since they don't have to listen to us we should never talk about our views on it?

What they are and are not required to so is irrelevant.

[Neonivek]

It means that videogames have no responsibility to break whatever veil of realism it has for political purposes and cannot be morally judged on that basis because they do not follow some outside moral prerogative unless it fits squarely within what the game was trying to achieve.

There are more to videogames and shooters then WW2 games.

[Caz]

what I'm saying is that certain complaints are based on my gender, yes. Or perhaps on the nature of my argument. Not necessarily intentionally, but arguing that I dictatorial or censoring anything is ridiculous and an obvious attempt to shut me down or trivialize my view.

Do you treat arguments differently if they're made by a man vs made by a woman? If not, why do you think others would do the same?

[Loud Whispers]

I think that people are talking past each other here.

Yeah, even when people are directly quoting each other I wouldn't be able to tell that it's intended as a reply.

[Mr. Strange]

Spoiler: This thread, very soon. (click to show/hide)

It's chillax time, people

[Loud Whispers]

It doesn't look like a flame war, more like a conversation with everyone wearing earmuffs.

[Urist Tilaturist]

No one is being dictatorial here, because no one is in a position to be dictatorial; we do not make the games. We are just arguing about them.

Games can be as silly or serious as they want to be. If they want to be serious, they cannot have silly things in them, or they will become silly - which is not bad, just different. Misplaced sexes, races or any other group for the place and time is silly and stops the game from being serious, so it must be avoided if and only if that is the aim. Many games nowadays try to be serious and end up being silly, which is a poor state of affairs.

I at least have definitely tried to respond to others' comments.

[Caz]

It doesn't look like a flame war, more like a conversation with everyone wearing earmuffs.

WHAT?

[Neonivek]

If they want to be serious, they cannot have silly things in them, or they will become silly

I keep hearing you say that Urist but I just don't agree. Even the most serious and gritty settings can have fleeting moments of light hearted silliness.

Though I won't disagree with your statement that serious games often just end up Silly.

Diablo 3 attempted to be more serious, even so far as making fun of people who spoke about its lighter more whimsickle tone, and yet it is the most silly of the entire series and is incredibly silly by any standard... making their parody of Diablo 3 quite apt.

[smeeprocket]

It means that videogames have no responsibility to break whatever veil of realism it has for political purposes and cannot be morally judged on that basis because they do not follow some outside moral prerogative unless it fits squarely within what the game was trying to achieve.

There are more to videogames and shooters then WW2 games.

Yes and they have no responsibility to not be racist or show rape or any number of things.

My civil rights and equal representation is not politics. I hate it when people refer to it like that, like there is an acceptable alternative side in which one could argue "no really, women are inferior."

What they HAVE to do is irrelevant to what they SHOULD or WOULD DRAW IN A BIGGER AUDIENCE to do.

You are making this argument solely to put me on the defensive and to de-legitimize my complaint.

And the person asking if I don't judge by gender why do I think others, would, that's being intentionally obtuse. Let's say that personal experience has shown me that most people will do that. Acting like that never happens or is an unlikely event is silly.

[Neonivek]

It isn't sexist to make a game in WW2 and follow the conventions of WW2.

As well if you want to argue should... WW2 games are incredibly unpopular with women (assuming Wikipedia is correct... and frankly it might be), I am not sure adding any to the roster would change that.

Since even Men's sports has atleast a 30% female fanbase, which is double the percent that those games get a lot of the time.

[Caz]

Yes and they have no responsibility to not be racist or show rape or any number of things.

My civil rights and equal representation is not politics. I hate it when people refer to it like that, like there is an acceptable alternative side in which one could argue "no really, women are inferior."

I don't see how arguing that women shouldn't be arbitrarily inserted into historical videogames just because "inclusivity" has ANYTHING to do with saying that "women are inferior."

You are making this argument solely to put me on the defensive and to de-legitimize my complaint.

Please stop allowing your personal feelings to interfere with the debate. You're making too many assumptions on other people's behaviour.

And the person asking if I don't judge by gender why do I think others, would, that's being intentionally obtuse. Let's say that personal experience has shown me that most people will do that. Acting like that never happens or is an unlikely event is silly.

How is it? I'm just asking if you do what you're accusing others of doing. You didn't answer. Do you think you're unique in your fair treatment of genders? I don't see how you can tar us all with a sexist brush just because of what you think some people are doing. It's pretty insulting.

[Loud Whispers]

My civil rights and equal representation is not politics. I hate it when people refer to it like that, like there is an acceptable alternative side in which one could argue "no really, women are inferior."

*Like there is an acceptable alternative side which isn't a misogynist strawoman.

What they HAVE to do is irrelevant to what they SHOULD or WOULD DRAW IN A BIGGER AUDIENCE to do.

Ah yes, pandering towards the mainstream; that raises quality! Well, it certainly doesn't intrinsically hurt. A Spielberg tends to be quality and crowd pleasing. The gaming industry does not have Spielberg. EA keeps killing them. Do not let EA take your money because they hide behind identity politics.

It doesn't look like a flame war, more like a conversation with everyone wearing earmuffs.

WHAT?

Earmuffs are cool.