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[Caz]

Also I think that the big testicle monster is female.

Uhh...

[Urist Tilaturist]

Female partisans, especially in France, should be required for a WW2 game. The lack of female US soldiers should also be required, since they were as non-existent as the female French partisans were existent.

No players in multiplayer shooters kill thousands of enemies without dying. Even recreating historical cases of 1-man armies like James Spurrier Jr capturing a village by himself is very hard to do indeed. As for absorbing health kits, that should stay in silly games like TF2 and not in anything vaguely resembling a real conflict.

[smeeprocket]

though I would add people are less likely to take a game with all female characters seriously, unless those females are highly sexualized.

Portal did pretty well.

What about Metroid? The main character Samus was female.

I was talking about this with Caz because it seemed to be a rather pro-woman exception. But apparently I was misinformed because I didn't beat the game fast enough. The faster you beat the game the more clothes samus takes off in the end, down to a bikini. So...

Also, for portal there is this: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Caroline

"Several sound files of Caroline's cut dialogue can be found within the game's cache files. The unused dialogue has Caroline addressing someone as "sir" and desperately insisting that she does not want something. The precise location in Test Shaft 09 for where this dialogue was meant to be played before being cut remains unknown. An Internet rumor claims that J.K. Simmons has revealed that this was intended to be a dialogue between Caroline and Cave Johnson and that Simmons refused to record his portion of the conversation because he felt it was too much like a rape scene. Erik Wolpaw has said in an interview during GDC Online 2011 that this is simply not true.[3] Wolpaw says, "Apparently, these are people who never saw Oz. J.K. Simmons will do anything if you pay him. But that [the rumor] is absolutely not true.""

So for some reason there is some very rape-y dialogue slipped into Portal, which seems odd.

That said, I always thought that rumor was true.

There are, yes, SOME all female games, specifically if it is one protagonist, such a tomb raider (which I believe has toned down the ridiculous proportions,) but then you have metroid and tomb raider releasing new content which is anything but empowering without regards to their protagonists.

I can't think of any others, though I am sure there is one or two.

[smeeprocket]

Female partisans, especially in France, should be required for a WW2 game. The lack of female US soldiers should also be required, since they were as non-existent as the female French partisans were existent.

No players in multiplayer shooters kill thousands of enemies without dying. Even recreating historical cases of 1-man armies like James Spurrier Jr capturing a village by himself is very hard to do indeed. As for absorbing health kits, that should stay in silly games like TF2 and not in anything vaguely resembling a real conflict.

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

[Neonivek]

I used to think Tails was a girl for some reason 

It probably has something to do with all of Tails' VAs (except one, I think) being women.

And Chell isn't genderless, just mostly characterless...  A blank slate for the player's imagination, much like Gordon Freeman.

A bit less so than Freeman. The void of her constant muteness gets pointed out frequently, and in the supplementary comics she's listed as an extreme positive outlier when tested for tenacity.

Well Chell gets quite a bit of characterization if you listen to Glados, in fact Glados highlights exactly what it is about her that makes Glados particularly obsessed about her (she isn't a team player for example).

While Gordon's lack of characterization or speaking is referenced in jest throughout the games.

Between them Chell is the one who we get to know a bit about. She isn't a true blank slate, she just doesn't have anyone to work off of.

[smjjames]

I thought Tails was male, but he was a kid.

[Caz]

"Several sound files of Caroline's cut dialogue can be found within the game's cache files. The unused dialogue has Caroline addressing someone as "sir" and desperately insisting that she does not want something. The precise location in Test Shaft 09 for where this dialogue was meant to be played before being cut remains unknown. An Internet rumor claims that J.K. Simmons has revealed that this was intended to be a dialogue between Caroline and Cave Johnson and that Simmons refused to record his portion of the conversation because he felt it was too much like a rape scene. Erik Wolpaw has said in an interview during GDC Online 2011 that this is simply not true.[3] Wolpaw says, "Apparently, these are people who never saw Oz. J.K. Simmons will do anything if you pay him. But that [the rumor] is absolutely not true.""

So for some reason there is some very rape-y dialogue slipped into Portal, which seems odd.

Maybe it had to do with the pouring of her consciousness into the machine.

[Caz]

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

Who wins in this situation? Is a game really unplayable if there's no female US soldiers - which is accurate to history? I don't see the point of changing things just to 'include' people when the reality was quite different. You can't just pretend that the situations didn't exist by trying to edit history.

[Urist Tilaturist]

I already said that absorbing health kits was stupid in historical situations. As for enemies unloading on the player and the player surviving, WW2 bullets were rarely instantly fatal unless the brain or heart was pierced. Even headshots could be survived under some circumstances - Simo Hayha had part of his jaw shot off by a sniper and survived. Most deaths were caused by artillery and shrapnel. What is stupid is when serious wounds heal during the course of the battle, as I have seen before.

Not having women in the US army in WW2 is required for anyone who gives the vaguest hoot about history and the game not being silly, along with no repair nanobot health packs and so on. The 1940s were not tolerant times and showing them as such is an insult to those who suffered through them (still no reply to this!).

[smeeprocket]

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

Who wins in this situation? Is a game really unplayable if there's no female US soldiers - which is accurate to history? I don't see the point of changing things just to 'include' people when the reality was quite different. You can't just pretend that the situations didn't exist by trying to edit history.

you're not editing history. It's a video game, it's not real life or a historical account.

Like I said, not every game HAS to have females, but the excuse that it is not historically accurate is a flimsy one. There's a lot more blatant problems with these games that I would call out before I would question a female being on the American side and what have you.

Urist, your sentiment is well-intentioned, but it doesn't insult people who suffered civil rights violations to include their gender in a video game about the past. You aren't rewriting history or ignoring what happened, you are just including more people in your game.

[My Name is Immaterial]

Because I sincerely doubt that many people play a 15 year old FPS that much. It's about how relevant the argument is to todays gaming scene.

3e3-----------------------------------=====Take it back. The original Unreal Tournament is the king of all FPS games.

I'll take your word for it.

[Urist Tilaturist]

A flimsy excuse? Unless your game is going to be as silly as TF2 or something similar, you need to not put silly things in it. Blatant violations of history are silly. I agree that other issues like magical health kits have to be cleared up as well, but female US soldiers in WW2 is just another inaccuracy to be stamped out.

[Neonivek]

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

Who wins in this situation? Is a game really unplayable if there's no female US soldiers - which is accurate to history? I don't see the point of changing things just to 'include' people when the reality was quite different. You can't just pretend that the situations didn't exist by trying to edit history.

you're not editing history. It's a video game, it's not real life or a historical account.

Like I said, not every game HAS to have females, but the excuse that it is not historically accurate is a flimsy one. There's a lot more blatant problems with these games that I would call out before I would question a female being on the American side and what have you.

It is a videogame based on a historical period. You cannot dictate how realistic it can or cannot be.

Not that a WW2 nurse having her camp blown up, picking up a gun, and mowing down some enemy troops wouldn't be interesting.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Games can be silly or serious. Silly games can do whatever they like. Serious games cannot, or they will become silly.

[smeeprocket]

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

Who wins in this situation? Is a game really unplayable if there's no female US soldiers - which is accurate to history? I don't see the point of changing things just to 'include' people when the reality was quite different. You can't just pretend that the situations didn't exist by trying to edit history.

you're not editing history. It's a video game, it's not real life or a historical account.

Like I said, not every game HAS to have females, but the excuse that it is not historically accurate is a flimsy one. There's a lot more blatant problems with these games that I would call out before I would question a female being on the American side and what have you.

It is a videogame based on a historical period. You cannot dictate how realistic it can or cannot be.

No, I can't dictate anything to game designers. I am not their boss. But I don't see how that's relevant. Urist has as much of a right to dictate as I do, neither of us has that power. We can express our opinions on the matter however.