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[MetalSlimeHunt]

"Several sound files of Caroline's cut dialogue can be found within the game's cache files. The unused dialogue has Caroline addressing someone as "sir" and desperately insisting that she does not want something. The precise location in Test Shaft 09 for where this dialogue was meant to be played before being cut remains unknown. An Internet rumor claims that J.K. Simmons has revealed that this was intended to be a dialogue between Caroline and Cave Johnson and that Simmons refused to record his portion of the conversation because he felt it was too much like a rape scene. Erik Wolpaw has said in an interview during GDC Online 2011 that this is simply not true.[3] Wolpaw says, "Apparently, these are people who never saw Oz. J.K. Simmons will do anything if you pay him. But that [the rumor] is absolutely not true.""

So for some reason there is some very rape-y dialogue slipped into Portal, which seems odd.

Maybe it had to do with the pouring of her consciousness into the machine.

Yes, that's what it is. Cave Johnson is too far gone with space cancer to be uploaded, so he forces Caroline to be uploaded as the next best thing. I think the rape connotation is fairly appropriate for having your mind torn out and put in a computer against your will.

[Neonivek]

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

Who wins in this situation? Is a game really unplayable if there's no female US soldiers - which is accurate to history? I don't see the point of changing things just to 'include' people when the reality was quite different. You can't just pretend that the situations didn't exist by trying to edit history.

you're not editing history. It's a video game, it's not real life or a historical account.

Like I said, not every game HAS to have females, but the excuse that it is not historically accurate is a flimsy one. There's a lot more blatant problems with these games that I would call out before I would question a female being on the American side and what have you.

It is a videogame based on a historical period. You cannot dictate how realistic it can or cannot be.

No, I can't dictate anything to game designers. I am not their boss. But I don't see how that's relevant. Urist has as much of a right to dictate as I do, neither of us has that power. We can express our opinions on the matter however.

Yes but lets just say it this way. You are saying that because it is a videogame it isn't beholden to any sort of realism it injects into its universe because it ultimately is just a game.

It is basically saying that the artistic intent of videogames is pointless.

[Caz]

Yes, that's what it is. Cave Johnson is too far gone with space cancer to be uploaded, so he forces Caroline to be uploaded as the next best thing. I think the rape connotation is fairly appropriate for having your mind torn out and put in a computer against your will.

Yeah, I'll agree with that.

[Rolan7]

It is a videogame based on a historical period. You cannot dictate how realistic it can or cannot be.

Not that a WW2 nurse having her camp blown up, picking up a gun, and mowing down some enemy troops wouldn't be interesting.

Videogames based on historical periods cover wide ranges of realism...  Sniper Elite vs Operation Flashpoint...

Just having some female enlisted soldiers in the unit without explanation would be really jarring.  Instead say something like "Here are some female agents we've pulled from general resistance operations to join your team for this critical covert mission."  It's only weird if they're in the Omaha beach landers for some reason.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Resistance and partisans did work with troops in some parts of the French campaign, so that scenario is very believable.

[smeeprocket]

why, why should not having females be required? By whose standards? Is inclusiveness -really- that detrimental to your immersion but having an enemy unload on you and not kill you or being healed by a health pack isn't?

Who wins in this situation? Is a game really unplayable if there's no female US soldiers - which is accurate to history? I don't see the point of changing things just to 'include' people when the reality was quite different. You can't just pretend that the situations didn't exist by trying to edit history.

you're not editing history. It's a video game, it's not real life or a historical account.

Like I said, not every game HAS to have females, but the excuse that it is not historically accurate is a flimsy one. There's a lot more blatant problems with these games that I would call out before I would question a female being on the American side and what have you.

It is a videogame based on a historical period. You cannot dictate how realistic it can or cannot be.

No, I can't dictate anything to game designers. I am not their boss. But I don't see how that's relevant. Urist has as much of a right to dictate as I do, neither of us has that power. We can express our opinions on the matter however.

Yes but lets just say it this way. You are saying that because it is a videogame it isn't beholden to any sort of realism it injects into its universe because it ultimately is just a game.

It is basically saying that the artistic intent of videogames is pointless.

how is me saying this any different from Urist saying the opposite?

You guys need to step back and consider that you are holding my end to a expectation you do not hold to the other end.

Snarky comments by some men in this thread have been met with indifference, but if I respond back sarcastically, I get chastised.

Saying a game can't be realistic if it includes women versus saying including women isn't a crime against realism, both are "dictatorial" of the games, but that expression is somewhat hyperbolic. I have no control over what game designers do. Expressing my opinion is not dictating anything.

It's like saying because I am criticizing a game I am "censoring" it. That is not how it works.

[Loud Whispers]

I used to think Tails was a girl for some reason 
And Chell isn't genderless, just mostly characterless...  A blank slate for the player's imagination, much like Gordon Freeman.

The character interactions and the fluff in the game gives her character. She is not a blank slate; you can't impress yourself on her childhood potato monstrosity or her dead father for example.

[Caz]

You guys need to step back and consider that you are holding my end to a expectation you do not hold to the other end.

What is 'your end'?

[smeeprocket]

You guys need to step back and consider that you are holding my end to a expectation you do not hold to the other end.

What is 'your end'?

the argument I've been making versus their's. I've just noticed this propensity for criticizing me for making counterpoints that are, I feel, just as valid as the points they are making. For rather silly reasons. When I say what I expect out of a video game, it is dictatorial, but when, say Urist says what he expects out of a video game, no one bats an eye.

I don't think it's intentional, but it is irritating.

[Caz]

the argument I've been making versus their's. I've just noticed this propensity for criticizing me for making counterpoints that are, I feel, just as valid as the points they are making. For rather silly reasons. When I say what I expect out of a video game, it is dictatorial, but when, say Urist says what he expects out of a video game, no one bats an eye.

I don't think it's intentional, but it is irritating.

Maybe because they agree with his views vs agreeing with yours? Every argument has to be understood on its own merit, not just accepted or rejected because of who made it. You're arguing that historical games should have women inserted in them just for inclusiveness. I don't understand why that would be a benefit in any game unless it was handled in a sensible way - i.e the nurse-warrior scenario that Neonivek suggested, or Russian/Serbian female soldiers on the eastern front, or French female partisans. Adding female soldiers to an army in a time period when there were none doesn't make much sense to me.

[Neonivek]

It's like saying because I am criticizing a game I am "censoring" it.

It is because your criticism if taken seriously often doesn't lead to any solution BUT to censor it... and you offer no solutions other then enforcement.

Saying a game can't be realistic if it includes women versus saying including women isn't a crime against realism, both are "dictatorial" of the games, but that expression is somewhat hyperbolic. I have no control over what game designers do. Expressing my opinion is not dictating anything.

You dictate your standards and you are dictating a standard onto videogames that I feel are outside them.

They are your opinions and I disagree with them. I disagree that videogames should be held to a standard of no realism.

[smeeprocket]

the argument I've been making versus their's. I've just noticed this propensity for criticizing me for making counterpoints that are, I feel, just as valid as the points they are making. For rather silly reasons. When I say what I expect out of a video game, it is dictatorial, but when, say Urist says what he expects out of a video game, no one bats an eye.

I don't think it's intentional, but it is irritating.

Maybe because they agree with his views vs agreeing with yours? Every argument has to be understood on its own merit, not just accepted or rejected because of who made it. You're arguing that historical games should have women inserted in them just for inclusiveness. I don't understand why that would be a benefit in any game unless it was handled in a sensible way - i.e the nurse-warrior scenario that Neonivek suggested, or Russian/Serbian female soldiers on the eastern front, or French female partisans. Adding female soldiers to an army in a time period when there were none doesn't make much sense to me.

it'a not disagreeing that is the problem.

It's accusations of things like being dictatorial.

It's this thing some guys (not all) do where they have this judgmental disapproval of whatever you are doing at any given time, or will trivialize your projects or feelings. Not even necessarily intentionally.

edit: see the post before this one, for an example.

I don't feel that's a valid assessment of what I've stated and really a rather narrow interpretation. I don't even know where it is coming from since the "Censoring" has been expressing a desire to not have half-naked women in video games for no reason, and the "dictating" is wanting to see more female protagonists.

[Neonivek]

Well, aren't you?

Do you not state your opinions as facts that are moral judgements that videogames should follow? Standards that should be kept?

The difference isn't that you are the only one dictating things. It is that I disagree with your standards.

[Graknorke]

I think that people are talking past each other here.

[Caz]

It's this thing some guys (not all) do where they have this judgmental disapproval of whatever you are doing at any given time, or will trivialize your projects or feelings. Not even necessarily intentionally.

What? Are you saying that people are disagreeing more with your posts because you are a woman?