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Author Topic: Random Injury  (Read 4786 times)

Magnumcannon

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2014, 01:16:23 am »

Urist McLegendaryArmorcrafter trips!
Urist McLegendaryArmorcrafter's head skids on the ground, breaking his skull and tearing his brain!
Urist McLegendaryArmorcrafter has been struck down!
Urist McScared: It was inevitable.
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Ngosp Umbabok

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2014, 02:33:28 pm »

Urist McLegendaryArmorcrafter trips!
Urist McLegendaryArmorcrafter's head skids on the ground, breaking his skull and tearing his brain!
Urist McLegendaryArmorcrafter has been struck down!
Urist McScared: It was inevitable.

Lol.

I think random injuries would be good for the reasons that have been described. Maybe the player could take efforts to ensure that the random wounds are less serious. Making roads and smooth floors would make falls less likely to do serious damage. Stuff like that would allow doctors to keep there skills up without randomly killing your valuable dwarves.
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MDFification

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2014, 02:54:06 pm »

You're basically suggesting "roll a d100 every tick, if it's a one one of your dorfs dies and there's NOTHING you can do about it". Realism is nice and all, but not when it significantly worsens the gameplay experience.

Small wounds would be OK, especially in avoidable situations (overcrowding and such, as others have suggested). Dwarves just randomly dying through no fault of your own isn't fun, though.

I said it should be rare to seem the die, but it still should be a thing that happens. I don't think it makes gameplay worse if your dwarves have a small chance to die of natural causes. It's no different than old age, except it won't require players to gen long histories or run forts for decades to experience.
I think aging should be in the game too, but that's a separate suggestion.

To make random accidents a feature rather than a bug, the player should have some control over the rate.  Maybe unstressed Dwarves are less accident prone (or more likely, a Goldilocks zone of moderate stress is best).  Or the player can choose shorter breaks with a concomitant increase in the chance for accidents.

Aging is in the game, it just is extremely rare in the span of a typical player fort.
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Zammer990

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 03:28:50 pm »

You're basically suggesting "roll a d100 every tick, if it's a one one of your dorfs dies and there's NOTHING you can do about it". Realism is nice and all, but not when it significantly worsens the gameplay experience.

Small wounds would be OK, especially in avoidable situations (overcrowding and such, as others have suggested). Dwarves just randomly dying through no fault of your own isn't fun, though.

I said it should be rare to seem the die, but it still should be a thing that happens. I don't think it makes gameplay worse if your dwarves have a small chance to die of natural causes. It's no different than old age, except it won't require players to gen long histories or run forts for decades to experience.
I think aging should be in the game too, but that's a separate suggestion.

To make random accidents a feature rather than a bug, the player should have some control over the rate.  Maybe unstressed Dwarves are less accident prone (or more likely, a Goldilocks zone of moderate stress is best).  Or the player can choose shorter breaks with a concomitant increase in the chance for accidents.

Aging is in the game, it just is extremely rare in the span of a typical player fort.
Old age is much more visible in adventure mode, as bandit groups often don't take on new members, it't not uncommon for you to be accosted by 20 men, only to have all of them die on the next move of old age
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Ngosp Umbabok

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2014, 10:54:08 am »


[/quote]
Old age is much more visible in adventure mode, as bandit groups often don't take on new members, it't not uncommon for you to be accosted by 20 men, only to have all of them die on the next move of old age
[/quote]

Iv never had that happen before. How many years old was the world you were using when this happened?
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Dirst

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2014, 12:30:53 pm »

I didn't mean just dropping dead of old age, I mean some accumulation of health problems (other than injuries) as one gets older.

Death by old age used to be a problem with forts: the monarch would arrive and keel over at the edge of your map.  Now those checks happen off-screen and a successor is chosen.
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darknessofthenight

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2014, 06:09:49 pm »

Old age happens but it does so very rarely in most forts
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The Bard

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2014, 01:59:14 am »

Ramps + Hatch Covers x Block Stockpile = Tons of injuries.
Done.
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BoredVirulence

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2014, 03:55:54 pm »

I like this suggestion. Sure, you said random, but you really meant weighted against personality, and attributes, the dwarf fortress way.

It would really help cull the weak. It would also make you more inclined to screen your military. Nothing worse than losing your fortress because your legendary swords dwarf tripped, and fell on his own sword, in his might charge to defeat the goblin scum.

I would also like to see the chances be greater for children, they're always doing stupid things before they realize their stupid (I myself nearly broke an ankle at a very young age because I liked jumping off stuff. I also tried to build a parachute, and nearly jumped out my window, onto a vertical driveway).

Of course, I do agree that there should be some way to prevent it, and I think that's the limiting factor about when it would implemented. Do we offer woodcutter training courses, to improve safety? Force them to work in pairs, so they always have someone their to correct them? Have nobles that institute fines on dwarves who fail to follow established safety routines? How can we define these routines? Can dwarves actually learn from their mistakes? Daycare (Real daycare) for the kids while they are a danger to themselves and others?..

It seems complicated. Maybe we should, for now, just be less careful in fortress design?..
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MDFification

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2014, 04:05:48 pm »

Of course, I do agree that there should be some way to prevent it, and I think that's the limiting factor about when it would implemented. Do we offer woodcutter training courses, to improve safety? Force them to work in pairs, so they always have someone their to correct them? Have nobles that institute fines on dwarves who fail to follow established safety routines? How can we define these routines? Can dwarves actually learn from their mistakes? Daycare (Real daycare) for the kids while they are a danger to themselves and others?..

It seems complicated. Maybe we should, for now, just be less careful in fortress design?..

What I'd implement as a way to prevent it is make dwarves less likely to trip on smoothed floors, make them less likely to have work accidents in uncluttered workshops (so keep your stockpiles functioning) and avoid long, continuous staircases (as if one trips on the staircase, they fall all the way down the staircase as currently implemented.... and that could be a lot of z-levels. I warned you about the stairs, bro). Maybe also avoid cluttered floorspace, ensure all the random garbage your dwarves drop in the hallways is cleaned up or they're liable to take a spill.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2014, 07:50:54 am »

This seems like a good idea, if implemented properly.  Here's how I would do it:

Every time a creature moves, it has a chance of stumbling.  Things that increase the chance of stumbling are:
  • Moving over rough floors or stairs
  • The presence of contaminants on the tile, especially liquid
  • Moving over an item outside of a container
  • Moving at a fast gait
  • Carrying a heavy burden
  • Dizziness, drowsiness, fever, nausea, or extreme hunger and thirst
  • High levels of stress
  • Being an unskilled crutch walker

This is weighed against the creature's agility, kinesthetic sense, and observation skill, which reduce the chance of stumbling.  Stumbling also trains observation slightly.

Creatures attempting to move past each other may also collide with each other.  This deals damage (as if one was thrown into the other, but much weaker) and has a chance to cause stumbling as well.  For additional fun, the collision may be interpreted as a (non-lethal) attack by dwarves who are prone to anger or have other particular personality traits, which can potentially spark a brawl.

Stumbling deals minor impact damage to one of the creature's STANCE bodyparts.  Upon stumbling, the creature also has a chance of tripping, which will be based on the same stats as the stumbling calculation, dealing further impact damage to another bodypart and causing them to fall to the ground.  The chance of injury will be greatest for GRASP bodyparts and lowest for the creature's HEAD.

Creatures with more than two legs are (i.e. creatures that will not collapse if they lose the use of one STANCE part) or those who are able to fly are much less likely to trip even if they stumble, although it can still happen.  Creatures with no functional legs will never stumble.

If the creature is carrying something when they trip, there is also a chance that they may injure themselves on a random body part with the item they were carrying.  This is calculated as if they were attacked with the item using a basic strike attack.  If the item is a weapon, a random attack with that weapon may be chosen, but the force behind the attack will be proportional to the severity of the trip instead of based on the creature's strength or skill.

A creature stumbling or tripping may also move one space in a random direction, potentially knocking them into a pit.  The chance of moving in the direction they were trying to move is higher than the chance of moving in a different direction.

A creature that trips (or falls down for other reasons) while on a flight of stairs may continue to fall, dealing further injuries with each z-level down and also colliding with anyone else in their way.  They have a chance of catching themselves each step, though, and the speed of falling is capped at a reasonable amount (so no falling all the way down the stairs and exploding).

Work-related injuries may also occur during regular workshop tasks.  These injuries would be biased toward the hands (i.e. GRASP bodyparts) but could potentially occur anywhere on the body.  They would typically be very minor though, and simulated by a weak edged or blunt attack toward the bodypart in question - for jobs that require fuel such as smelting or metalsmithing, burns may also be involved.  The skill of the worker would prevent or mitigate these injuries.

The effect of this would be:
  • An accumulation of minor injuries for training your doctors.
  • Gradual training of the observation skill.
  • Discouragement of lazy fortress design based around long up/down staircases.
  • Further discouragement of crowded, narrow corridors and tiny meeting places.
  • Small amounts of combat training if you do have crowded areas.
  • More good reasons to smooth out your fortress floors and keep them clean and organized.
  • An accumulation of scars on the hands of legendary craftdwarves.
  • More potential for hilarity and !!fun!!

Vattic

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2014, 01:47:30 pm »

Other things that could increase the chance:
  • Being unable to see (if blinded, in the dark, and light blindness too if it gets added)
  • Numb/blistered/swollen/impaired/necrotic/paralysed/otherwise injured stance parts
  • Extreme age (both young and old)

All this makes me wonder if human traders ever bump their heads on their way through dwarven doors.

I like the idea of unifying it all under stumbling, but there could be more flavour (falling off chairs, out of bed, banging head etc).

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mate888

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2014, 11:34:05 pm »

For additional fun, the collision may be interpreted as a (non-lethal) attack by dwarves who are prone to anger or have other particular personality traits, which can potentially spark a brawl.
So, Urist McLegendaryWrestler stumbles with a random baby, gets pissed and sends him flying across the room with a mighty kick, killing the child.
The parents go insane and die. Causing their family and friends to also go insane and throw tantrums, eventually making the for explode in a glorious tantrum spiral only because a soldier kicked a baby?
I need that now.
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Dirst

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2014, 11:57:33 pm »

Work-related injuries may also occur during regular workshop tasks.  These injuries would be biased toward the hands (i.e. GRASP bodyparts) but could potentially occur anywhere on the body.  They would typically be very minor though, and simulated by a weak edged or blunt attack toward the bodypart in question - for jobs that require fuel such as smelting or metalsmithing, burns may also be involved.  The skill of the worker would prevent or mitigate these injuries.
Urist McClumsy has suffered an injury to the left third toe due to a freak clothesmaking accident!
Urist McClumsy cancels make socks, heading to hospital.
Urist McClumsy stumbles on a smoothed floor, injuring the right ear.  The severed part flies off in an arc!

We so need this feature in the game...
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utunnels

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Re: Random Injury
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2014, 01:14:52 am »

Urist McClumsy cancels head to hospital: seeking ear.
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