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Author Topic: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?  (Read 7437 times)

Magnumcannon

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MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« on: December 02, 2014, 04:20:56 pm »

 Recently i started playing Runescape. Cool game, indeed. It has a lot of things to do, but most of them requires me to be a "Member" so i can enjoy the other 60% of the game It always seems that MMOs are always free-to-play, but not free-to-enjoy. I don't care if there are some weapons, armor, items or magic you need to pay with your own money to get, but most of the times, you can only get a stick for weapon, while people who have paid can get a InfinitePlus Sword +1.

 Sometimes, an entire resource of the game only works if you have paid, like having a house on the game, having pets or creating clans. Like i said before, there isn't any problem if you have to buy with your own money a cool sword, a badass staff or an awesome bazooka, but removing ENTIRE resources of the game...I mean, can't we still have those resources while playing for free, but without the coolest part of them? Here is an example...

How MMOs are if you didn't pay: You get a wooden stick and you can't have a pet, house or create a clan...also, you're lvl 99

How MMOs are if you did pay: Cool, here is Excalibur, A Demonic Dragon as pet, Dracula's Castle as your house and you can create a clan...also, you're lvl1

How i'd like them to be if you didn't pay: You can get this Sacred Zweihander (The 3rd most powerful sword), but you can't get Excalibur. Also, here is a pet Cerberus (The 4rd most powerful), a big Mansion and yeah, you can create a clan...but you have to work very hard! (You're lvl99)

How i'd like them to be if you did pay: Just like how they really are, except people should work hard to get their gear, just like the guy who didn't pay, with some benefits, of course.

I don't want people who paid having the exact same stuff as the people who didn't with some small extra bonus, they paid for it and they should have it. Sometimes, i just seems that people who have paid will get the good stuff while being lvl1 and people who didn't, but worked hard, will get nothing but a wooden sword to kill slimes. Slimes because they can't access the other 99% of the world, as they have to pay for it.

(Also, sorry for using Runescape as an example. Although it's quite fun to play, it still have it's share off MMO Pay-to-enjoy bullshit)

Getting to the point. Can someone point me a MMORPG that plays fair for both people who have paid and people who haven't?


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Bouchart

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 04:37:02 pm »

There are some non-graphical MUDs which have plenty of content and are entirely free with no paid memberships or the like.  The only one I play is one that's nearly defunct, though.  Aardwolf appears to be a popular one though.
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nenjin

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 04:37:02 pm »

I don't really do straight up and down MMOs anymore, not since the F2P revolution in the market, because of what you say. Big complicated MMOs that are F2P have gone the trend of pricing out different pieces of gameplay and I don't have time for that.

But I'd say two games I do play meet your criteria, because there's a good balance between the content everyone can play and the content you pay for.

Warframe. It's not really an MMO in the traditional sense. More like a F2P Shooter with MMO qualities and persistence. But virtually everything in game can be acquired by playing for it, instead of paying for it, with the following exceptions: cosmetics and more slots beyond the starting amount for additional weapons and warframes. It is the F2P game that received the most money from me. The only thing I'd say is slightly unfair about the pay/play balance with it is the amount of effort it takes to improve weapons and warframes outside of the leveling schema...you need one-use items that just make them better, and the time and resources it takes to farm for and craft that stuff in the volume you'd like is a little egregious, compared to just buying the upgrades for ~$2 a piece. (Or just buying the maxed out weapon or warframe straight up with cash.)

The Secret World. It's a pay to play game in the sense you buy the client, but the rest is....mostly free. It's a traditional MMO focused on your usual monster slaying and questing....but also a ton of investigation and puzzle solving. Really mind bending puzzle solving, presented in an atmospheric style. TSW has a really unique style and theme to the world which is its primary draw. On the F2P/P2P/P2F side of things, for the vast majority of game play, it's all free and the only things that cost money are cosmetics. That's old subscription-era content. The newer content is broken up in a series of "Issues" that cost between $5 and $15 per that open up more zones and carry on the story. I've only half dipped my toe into that stuff. But you can easily wring 100 hours of gameplay out of the F2P portion of the content, which still is the largest chunk of the game. I've probably got 200 hours in it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 04:41:50 pm by nenjin »
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Virtz

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 04:44:38 pm »

Path of Exile - outside of stash space, all shop items are purely cosmetic. Diablo-like RPG with MMO elements (heavily instance based with players visible in towns) and its rather original spin on Diablo 2's formula.

Warframe - nenjin explains the model in this well.

I'm having trouble thinking of a traditional MMORPG that'd be free from pay to win, though. Meaning one where you encounter hundreds of players in a single server.
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Hanzoku

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 05:39:11 pm »

Not sure how it fits into your example, but:

Guild Wars 2 is a one-time payment for the game, and then has some premium features around you, but otherwise is very accessible without further cash investment. I was mostly playing it solo or with my girlfriend, and we were focused on completing each zone fully, which is a nice division of quests, events, combat skill challenges, finding all the parts and vistas in the zone, and jumping puzzles.
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evilnancyreagan

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 05:47:53 pm »

Cryptic does F2P right in my book, Star Trek Online and Neverwinter Nights are solid games. I have enjoyed STO on and off again for a few years now, I only occasionally spent real money but, I never felt like I needed to. You can earn anything that can be bought just by playing.

I also tip my hat to SOE's model, there's plenty to buy, none of it is necessary and you get your bang for for your buck.
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Elfeater

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 05:48:56 pm »

Mabinogi?
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Sonlirain

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 06:09:32 pm »

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Erkki

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 06:12:36 pm »

There are at least some very popular MMOs that are very very close free of P2W(paying only shortens the worst of grinds a bit), but I dont know any Role Playing ones I'm afraid.  :-\
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Nelia Hawk

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 06:16:21 pm »

as someone who usually doesnt use (or totally ignores) any cashshop in online games:

star trek online.
(played it entirely through to max level some year ago with a friend. and just ignored the shop)

vindictus (grindy as hell though, mostly cosmetic stuff in the shop)

think neverwinter nights online was fine too without paying anything. (just played that to level 20-30 or so.)

dungeons and dragons online i had quite fun with too 5+? years ago without paying for any extra adventures. but ya that was years ago, nowadays the population probably mostly went to neverwinter nights online.

tera is probably fine too. didnt play that much as the questing for 10 centaur hair wasnt really that intresting and dungeons are unlocked later... but the gfx are really good and the combat is neat too.

oh and guild wars 2. its a one time buy but if you can get into it there is lots to do.

and as always... the mmo questing/leveling journey is always more fun with a friend.


Edit:
world of tanks, war thunder, apb... but they are not realy "mmo"
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 06:23:57 pm by Nelia Hawk »
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Vendayn

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 06:30:06 pm »

From my understanding, GW2 has gone heavy on the cash shop. I also remember when I played, they had "limited" time almost required items (like special pickaxes, special weapons) and stuff. And GW2 nerfed drop rates (or removed some items completely) on many items...like keys to open chests. Completely pay to enjoy/win now.

Honestly, just pay a monthly fee. Its cheap...heck movies here cost 40 dollars a ticket to see a 3d movie. 20 dollars for a regular non-3d movie...each ticket. Go out to eat costs 10+ dollars even at a fast food place. Buy groceries and that adds up. 15 dollars isn't really that much, and a lot cheaper than free to play MMOs, which are actually MORE expensive.

What I learned: Nothing is free. Everything has a cost of some kind. Maybe the cost is crappy service/goods. Most free to play/buy to play MMOs are pretty crappy. Or go pay to win like GW2 did.

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Virtz

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 07:08:18 pm »

Mabinogi?
Aren't you unable to get a mount in that at all without buying from the cash store?
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Aoi

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2014, 07:17:21 pm »

From my understanding, GW2 has gone heavy on the cash shop. I also remember when I played, they had "limited" time almost required items (like special pickaxes, special weapons) and stuff. And GW2 nerfed drop rates (or removed some items completely) on many items...like keys to open chests. Completely pay to enjoy/win now.

Disclaimer: Been playing GW2 since closed beta.

It has gone heavy on the cash shop, but there's still absolutely nothing that'd actually interfere with the gameplay experience:

Tools with unlimited use can be purchased, but they offer effectively no competitive benefit outside the obvious. (Two slight exceptions, one of which most people didn't notice, and one that a lot of people got angry about but hasn't seen a repeat of since.)
Keys to open boxes... it's effectively the gachapon equivalent. Not like "Finish a dungeon but didn't pay? Too bad, no reward for you." The odds of anything good out of the boxes make it more like a long shot lottery ticket/absolute waste of money. Still annoying when you get the boxes as random loot though.
Boosters and buffs can be purchased, but frankly, I don't know anybody who actually plays that finds this problematic. The advantages are minute.
Cosmetic... this is the big one. I'd estimate that roughly a third of the skins (up past half, if you ignore "boring" skins) are cash shop now. Toss in minipets (purely cosmetic things that follow you around) which are over 85% cash shop... There's no competitive advantage from these skins though. (And highly subjective-- I get compliments on my looks all the time, despite not using a single cash shop skin.)

The spirit of the GW2 cash shop has been to avoid P2W, which I think has been met with a decent degree of success. Could be better, but they want to make money on their product. Like any game, there are a lot of issues, but I'd have to say that GW2's cash shop is NOT a P2W situation. Some of its ingame economic issues, on the other hand, are a bit of a facepalm.
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Aoi

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2014, 07:20:20 pm »

Mabinogi?
Aren't you unable to get a mount in that at all without buying from the cash store?

I know I got a horse without ever paying. I think it has a limited duration per day though. Not sure if it's still possible since I've bee playing on and (very) off since it was in beta in the US.

I seem to recall it has a lot that requires paying for though, if you want to get anywhere in a finite amount of time.

And, uh, pardon not merging the posts; my phone sucks for this.
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Elfeater

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Re: MMOs without Pay 2 Enjoy bullshit?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2014, 08:02:28 pm »

Mabinogi?
Aren't you unable to get a mount in that at all without buying from the cash store?

I know I got a horse without ever paying. I think it has a limited duration per day though. Not sure if it's still possible since I've bee playing on and (very) off since it was in beta in the US.

I seem to recall it has a lot that requires paying for though, if you want to get anywhere in a finite amount of time.

And, uh, pardon not merging the posts; my phone sucks for this.
Other than not having a pet I don't remember being hampered in any particular way by not paying.
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