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[mastahcheese]

It's still saved on my iPod, yes.

Deus: TolyK flipped internal affairs, now what does that make the odds of you also telling the truth be?

[Deus Asmoth]

Considering TolyK confirmed every single one of the answers I gave about my role, I'd say that makes my odds pretty good.

[Persus13]

Tiruin, how's life on the scum team?

What's the flavor?

Also, since Caz flipped town, how can we trust you to have good inspects?

[Deus Asmoth]

Caz was a miller, so the fact that my inspect showed her up as scum makes sense.

flabort[/b], since we had definite confirmation that TolyK was a cop, what do you have to say about your third party miller claim versus his result on you?

Tiruin, why didn't you have a vote on anyone when the day ended yesterday? You had enough time to think Caz shouldn't be lynched, but not to be suspicious of anyone else?

[Tiruin]

Finally I can post >_>

From waaaaaay back. Bloody net.

Tiruin

But yeah, hi everyone! I will post tomorrow! Because fatigue x_x
Good game though

Come on, you didn't have time for one little question?

For when you get back: What do you think the level of activity in players has to say about their alignment, if anything?

Yeah, no time back here post-humously. Christmas and January fun sucked it all up (plus personal problems which sapped my energy and had me only posting to keep other threads I entered afloat). :/

Regarding this question: Neutral, totally. I can recall a lot of players who have had low levels of activity, and were town. Same for being scum. The general rule here isn't--as previously believed (by some of "us veterans"), the more activity you have, the better chance you are in being town, but rather its in the content one puts into the menu.


PS: Part of my post would remark on one thing: Nobody bloody asked me anything in D1.
...Or Silthuri, for that matter.

Flabort:
 Why the...mindreading post there? It's a bit curious on how far you're predicting things. o_O
You're flipping out, for some reason. What're the thoughts that poked you that way?

Deus

Tiruin, how's life on the scum team?

. . .?
(Real) Life's been hectic -_- More personal life than internet reasons. Is there something up on why you issue the one question to me--not in RVS (or rather only mention me now) in the present time, with brevity and an assumption in the background?

DA: What is your appraisal of yesterday's events? Comparatively, you and TolyK; could you give a comparison, and include what you did last night? Also more questions below.

Tiruin and Silthuri, reads?

Verily. (Also 4mask didn't edit the OP for some reason?)


mastahcheese -- Leaning town here, with little regard for being scum: primarily due to how he acted in D1 and onwards; MC displayed a degree of proactivity, and his degree of probing was for a deeper level of thinking, especially not in concerto with other players. While the concept of 'he may be playing lone wolf scum' to me happened, it didn't configure as I read past the days due to the in-game independent variable of the 'Watchman', and precisely how he proceeded with it.
Query: What makes 'evidence planting' so "bastardly" here?
TheDarkStar: Contrasting MC, however in a different manner (leaning neutral). Basis is more on content than attitude. Basically: uncertain and leaning neither way.
...I'm curious why he was nominated as the Watchman however--May all those who voted for TDS to explain why he was being voted as the watchman? (this is in orange for readability)
Query for you: Why were you eager to be the watchman earlier in the game?

Caz -- This dude was NOT standing as scum for me, outright anyway. Caz, as I've known, tends towards...brevity and general silliness in her attitude (or...when busy with other pursuits non-mafia related...); her attitude did not match what I found to be a ScumCaz, especially when under pressure--she would respond, and its rather in how her attitude was, where I judged how she was acting as. {1} Note one, a tone of drama. Firstly, I didn't judge it based on the fact that there is drama: Caz can be a very good player when she wants to, and the brevity really felt to me that she was either pressured (unlikely given the tone), or given up-y. The note of a Chinese mafia? Along with the flavor contextual clues? In a normal game, I'd ignore such movements--but in a BASTARD game (ie Bellsounder Mafia...ooo I loved that one), details should be taken in minute scrutiny and analysis, but not so that you'd be paralyzed to act on such ideas. Caz' attitude, while...glib, would be strange in considering the aspects of the game in a Mafia perspective, or a third-party perspective. Coming forth with being Mafia with...Mein Kampf? Being Chinese? I didn't look at her as scum before--but she remained neutral, and I read back (but didn't post) during that time to see how reactions went.

While people 'trusted' the cops at D2-end, and understandably it is a 'safe-ploy' just in case she is scum, there were certain curiosities in the way of the certain death penalty of 'Caz has been investigated and found wanting' and 'I am Chinese. What happened to me.' (basically the D2-end context).


Deathsword -- Null. Would be leaning town given how his direction was in the early days, but my focus was elsewhere--however I did note that he had a level of awareness akin to MC's.

Persus13 -- ...Same place as DS, but falling in with astuteness, leaning town than leaning null, but both still in the gray. The notes of flavor-awareness and the factor of how he questions people--while in brevity, it was certained for future responses and seemed to be tracing for answers...

Vivalas -- ...I'm leaning town on this one, wherein 'leaning' would equal a measure of 'this person can't seemingly be newbie scum because a newbie, given his attitude probably parallel with the RIA-concept, would be a really bad streak to his first game(?)...' and 'On the other side, as town it'd make sense, how he would move with his...scumhunting. The manner by which he votes, and poses his queries seem off kilter, but not in a way to suggest malevolence or shrouded intention.'
...Meaning: I'm uncertain, but the appraisal of his attitude and disposition tells me that he's...not working as a team-mind, but more 'alone'.

Tiruin -- Hello. I am Tiruin. With totally little knowledge of WWII flavor other than the Asian sphere (and major European ventures like the battle of Normandy, and weaponry, equipment, logistics, hierarchy and military tactics used on both sides--like why Hitler was inefficient as a fascist dictator while the Allies could operate very-...yeah, rambling off on history studies is me. >_>).
Saying all this because I doubt the bastard mechanic is hidden in the historical context. Though...it is very strange to see the Chinese fight here (it was never mentioned in my history studies anyway where the Chinese fought <_<)

Silthuri -- I read her as I read me: Neutral (by which its up to you how you judge us :/ RL issues = x_x at times...), and given that I know a...tad bit of her RL stuff, I'm really not willing to judge her as I'd do myself.
...Meaning she's null.

flabort Leaning town/null: Remarking on attitude and compared to gameplay--this one still requires more reading into; his attitude is...jumpy, a predominant adjective I'd describe how he's been acting in the continuing days in how he regards others as well as himself--though it could also be called as 'astute', given his pointed remarks and focused disposition. There's something with him that's catching my intrigue--maybe due to how he writes his ideas out.
TolyK's roleflip (as vague as it is...) gives credibility to the note on being an investigator--the only thing throwing it off is the...confuzzle regarding 'What? You should've seen {x}, why is there {y}?' and the strangeness of the detection.
As a hypothetical: I do hope the "cops" know that their investigate is aimed towards the role/ability or the alignment beforehand. These...misplacements do happen at times, but of mention anyway. >_>
flabort: I notice a certain degree of pointedness in your statements. How do you see direct communication as a tool for scumhunting?
Also what drove you to mention the idea of 'framing'? You saw something back there.
Could I also ask how you're regarding Comrade Shamrock and Deus Amoth being tied? I've read you mentioning a three-way cop zone, and CS out of the idea of his...relations with DA. What exactly poked you on that idea?

TolyK -- Dead, but this was made yesterday so :v
> Seemed strange, but believable (strange = the discrepancy of investigator and investigated results). Given the high contradiction rate of one over the other, he was leaning town for me yesterday: his interactions with mastahcheese, as well as flabort give solidity to his credibility (though his silliness always punches me in the gut :v). I didn't look into the matter more, as I tied him up with flabort in consideration, and focused on the latter more due to the chain of association and tracing that formed.

Comrade Shamrock As curious as Deus Amoth, minus the 'Hey I'm a cop' note. In the link would be where my reads revolved around: how he considers others. Some parts are...superficial, so to say. While he did mention he is a newbie (with as much treatment as I give Vivalas, everyone is unique in their scope), several key points stood out on the area where he described what persuaded him to look at people in one way or another (though as another point, it could just be how he related the general idea, which I'm more inclined in believing here).
Neutral/Uncertain.
Query CS: What kind of idea would persuade you to use your only weapon--the vote? Seeing that list (and your other posts), it seems to...skim, on the finer and "more convincing" details in general.

Deus Asmoth -- Curious. Comparing my D2 read to my current read, I feel it be too...hasty to judge him in exacts, but I have a tendency to see where he is leaning (scumwise? Townwise? I'm feeling a great deal of intrigue with him). Basically: The scenario outlined here.
@D2, the attitude matched up: there was the degree of doubt in himself, yet there was the aspect of the scientific method in approaching that doubt: being open-minded in considering viewpoints (also frame is pretty much the same as planting evidence, considering the context of the mechanic :v). Considering how he presented the following idea, it had precision in how it was presented--and not merely an idea to throw to the winds in regard to what was the given. Though, he has a great deal of brevity used subtly in his statements, something by which I am...not comfortable with, given the tone he used during the proceeding day. But I am very curious as to why he outed himself as a cop, to reveal scum so early in a large game. Reading back, it appears that question was not approached.

Considering now, however. Caz' role doesn't...speak scum to me at all: DA, could we know what you had as a result last night in full text?

Scripten was >_>. Admittedly, I was in the game after D1, with lapses of 'argh life' in the midst of D2, (ie helping a person who has been abandoned by a friend).
Anyway, my read on him was....
It is very strange of him to initiate a probing question which involves...'VIGKILL', though my best lead would be 'cultural effect', given that he noted that he's a regular (mafiascum?) player, and this is the norm in his area.
...
Seriously Scripten, I'm asking you this post-game. What were you thinking.

Also before anyone asks regarding blue and red with how I do my stuff (or the absence of such)--I don't do the normal 'present your stance'. I'm saying all this because most of you are new--not because I'm relying on metaknowledge (and because you are new...semantic shift there), but to explain in advance my standpoint regarding pressure and how I vote (to avoid the questions later on); I don't mark my targets, but wait until a degree of surity occurs in how I see them. My philosophy revolves around what is not present rather than what is present (or in better terms: non-quantity following): I rarely use the FOS, and when I vote, it has a degree of certainty poured into it; I'd rather vote in the seeming context of certainty rather than use the vote as a pressure valve, and vice versa: but my weakness is within my context and how my tone goes.


Lastly: ZU's lurkertracker is broken in crossmatching posts ._.

PPE: GRAHH MANY REPLIES.
* Tiruin shakes her fist at the internets for cutting out and then coming back and then oooooo
Warning - while you were reading 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

...Huh, two different entries.
Between this post and its copy paste, my net died in between. Wow. <_<
Just like D2 end.

[Tiruin]

PPE: Because lolNet. :/

Caz was a miller, so the fact that my inspect showed her up as scum makes sense.

So sure of ye thar?

Tiruin, how's life on the scum team?

What's the flavor?

I am interested in this, too. For a first post, it seems more like to seek reaction or provocation instead of anything else.

[mastahcheese]

Tiruin: The reason I view planting evidence as bastardly is because it's really damn clever on 4mask's part. I mean, come on. Give scum the ability to plant evidence that basically turns people into millers, and then put in, not just 2 cops, but a unique setup where anyone can watch who targets who? That's hilarious, particularly to read back through at the end.

Alright, I've been thinking.

POSSIBILTY 1

Scum planted evidence on Flabort at the same night that TolyK inspected him. In addition, the same night that I watched TolyK action Flabort, so I could confirm him being a power role.
This would be a godsend to a scum team. Not only are you lucky enough to have you plant show fruit immediately, but now you can murder a confirmed power role, and make the town waste a day by lynching an innocent.
The problem with this?
1) The likelihood of both TolyK and scum targeting the same person.
2) The likelihood of me seeing TolyK, but not the person that planted evidence on Flabort.

POSSIBILITY 2

Flabort is scum, and TolyK saw it. Me seeing TolyK is simply coincidence, and scum killed TolyK because they knew he was legit.
The problem with this?
Killing TolyK pretty much ensures that Flabort will get lynched, because it proves what he saw. The scum would lose their member, but then again, they may be totally fine with that, and possibly even view it as a way to seem town by bussing him.

Going by Occam's Razor, we should follow the possibility that makes the fewest assumptions, and that would be to assume that Flabort is scum.
However... I'm not comfortable with that. My gut is telling me that something really screwy is going on here.

Part of that feeling is "Why didn't anyone try to protect TolyK, if we have protect roles?"
I'm assuming we do because nobody died N1. Then again, maybe they have to either plant evidence, or kill.
Then again, we're not entirely sure they even can plant evidence, it's just that it would explain a whole hell of a lot.

If I were scum, and the situation in possibility 1 presented itself, I would do my hardest to try to make TolyK seem untrustworthy, so people wouldn't try to protect him, to ensure that kill went through.
I'm going to look back to see what people said of TolyK, and other things in general.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin: The reason I view planting evidence as bastardly is because it's really damn clever on 4mask's part. I mean, come on. Give scum the ability to plant evidence that basically turns people into millers, and then put in, not just 2 cops, but a unique setup where anyone can watch who targets who? That's hilarious, particularly to read back through at the end.

@_@
You are me sometimes in thought. >_>
However you try to guess the mod. xD

In exaggerated tones...
PFP

Will post up later because sudden emergency case popped up!

[Deus Asmoth]

PPE: Because lolNet. :/

Caz was a miller, so the fact that my inspect showed her up as scum makes sense.

So sure of ye thar?

What's this supposed to imply? I got a guilty vote on Caz, Caz claimed miller, Caz flipped town. Unless Caz was trying to make the town lose and I'm insane, her being miller is the only thing that makes any sense at all.

Tiruin, how's life on the scum team?

What's the flavor?

I am interested in this, too. For a first post, it seems more like to seek reaction or provocation instead of anything else.
[/quote]
I voted for you because I investigated you and you came up scum. That's why I said it answered flabort's question.

[Tiruin]

PPE: Because lolNet. :/

Caz was a miller, so the fact that my inspect showed her up as scum makes sense.

So sure of ye thar?

What's this supposed to imply? I got a guilty vote on Caz, Caz claimed miller, Caz flipped town. Unless Caz was trying to make the town lose and I'm insane, her being miller is the only thing that makes any sense at all.

You had a note, specifically, regarding planting evidence. Note 1 by which you speak astutely about it, and Note 2, indicating a tone of prediction in the future.

Now I see a whole different melody, and a hint of defensiveness by asking for the implication. I am very curious--I do believe you are aware that the rest of us are unsure about your credibility, aye? Especially given the context of the before?
I am curious why you hop onto miller as a certainty--curious more because your wording lacked alternative thinking, but surity in how you said it.

Meaning: What makes you disprove that planting evidence note which you stuck to back there? I am scum so hard, in layman term?
Flavor jot. Now.
Reasons too, why you picked me. Reasons comparing, others to me.

[mastahcheese]

Comrade Shamrock: Explain why you voted Scripten Day 1, and failed to care to vote for a lookout on the same day.
Then explain why you voted Caz.

You are the only person that is still alive that voted for both of them, and you were rather late in the voting of both of them, siting other people's hunting as your excuse.

[TheDarkStar]

Deus Asmoth targeted Tiruin last night. That's all I saw.

Also, I wanted the be the lookout because I'm otherwise powerless and my death would not have very much of an impact on the game.

[Tiruin]

Deus Asmoth targeted Tiruin last night. That's all I saw.

Also, I wanted the be the lookout because I'm otherwise powerless and my death would not have very much of an impact on the game.

And how is the orange part proven? By word alone? This was the first time I saw mention of that, however.

You didn't want to be the lookout because it was considered yesterday that the lookout should be 'not one of those involved' (paraphrased).

PFP: Rushing to class :v

[Deus Asmoth]

PPE: Because lolNet. :/

Caz was a miller, so the fact that my inspect showed her up as scum makes sense.

So sure of ye thar?

What's this supposed to imply? I got a guilty vote on Caz, Caz claimed miller, Caz flipped town. Unless Caz was trying to make the town lose and I'm insane, her being miller is the only thing that makes any sense at all.

You had a note, specifically, regarding planting evidence. Note 1 by which you speak astutely about it, and Note 2, indicating a tone of prediction in the future.

Everything from note 1 regarding evidence planting:

There's no evidence of framing, there's a theory that the scum might have the ability to plant evidence.

Huh. Yeah, I'm sure sticking by that evidence planting theory, right?

And note two in its unadulterated glory:

I'm not sure how useful that would end up being. One of us is probably going to end up dead tonight in either case unless the scum team use poison/ have to choose between a night kill or planting evidence, and if they can plant evidence our result will be nigh useless. Covering as much ground as possible but taking the results with a pinch of salt and hoping that the night watchman sees whoever kills us is probably the best option for the town at the moment.

Unless the tone of prediction you're talking about is the one where I think that the scum will kill one of the cops, I really don't see what you're talking about here. I listed both of the theories as to why no one had died on the first night and said that unless one of them was true there was little point in our cops coordinating inspections, because one of us would be dead.

Now I see a whole different melody, and a hint of defensiveness by asking for the implication. I am very curious--I do believe you are aware that the rest of us are unsure about your credibility, aye? Especially given the context of the before?

I'm interested as to why my credibility is at stake here. We have:
-A cop who's been confirmed as matching the other (confirmed) cop in his title and ability.
-Who outed himself for the town's benefit when he got a guilty result.
-Who found someone acting suspicious that claimed to be a miller.
-Said miller flipped town. (As for why I'm so certain she was a miller, check below)

And then this 'defensiveness' you're seeing. Because I asked you for the justification for a ridiculous question? That's not defensiveness, that's me trying to figure out why you're asking me a ridiculous question. Yes, I was sure that Caz was a miller, because she said she was a miller and got a guilty result when inspected by a cop in spite of being on the town's side.

I am curious why you hop onto miller as a certainty--curious more because your wording lacked alternative thinking, but surity in how you said it.

Let's see...

I'm a miller.

Are you sure about that, Caz? Would you like to repeat it so you're sure we heard?

again... miller.

So, what? Your theory is that Caz lied for absolutely no reason other than to screw with us?

Meaning: What makes you disprove that planting evidence note which you stuck to back there?

Do you mean the note in which I dismissed the planting evidence theory because it was only a theory with no supporting evidence, or the one in which I used it as one of the unlikely scenarios that would mean we didn't lose one of our cops in the night?

I am scum so hard, in layman term?
Flavor jot. Now.

I honestly have no idea what any of this means.

Reasons too, why you picked me. Reasons comparing, others to me.

I picked you because you were lurking, hadn't given any useful information in spite of promising to several times and therefore seemed a less likely candidate for scum to plant evidence on if you weren't one of them yourself, assuming that's even something they're capable of doing.

As for the phrasing when I voted for you, yes, I did want to get a reaction out of you. The fact that your defence seems to be lying through your teeth about what I said about the evidence planting theory and asking a strange and pointless question so that you can misrepresent me asking for your point as putting me on the defensive does little to convince me that my investigation of you got the wrong result.

In other news, I'm rapidly losing faith in out night watchmen.

[TheDarkStar]

In other news, I'm rapidly losing faith in out night watchmen.

...?

Deus Asmoth targeted Tiruin last night. That's all I saw.