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[smeeprocket]

is there any way to be more certain I can get a breeding pair to show up?

I've minimized map size of both the embark and the entire map, and just generally tried to cull as much stuff as possible to keep the fort going without losing it to fps any time soon, so that I have more time to wait for the whales to show.

[Absentia]

No way to be certain, as far as I know. The only thing I can think of that might help at all would be aggressively killing any other wild animal that spawns, either by normal means or with DFHack. This would cause new animal groups to appear more rapidly. Beyond that, patience is all I can suggest.

But even if you don't get GSW's, chances are you'll get something interesting. Even regular old sharks would be fun to put in a moat.

[smeeprocket]

I will begin fishing aggressively then, once I am set up. Although there are so many fish that depopulating them would be rough.

Also I intend to test my tanks out on them.

Of course, draining out the aquifer while building said tanks is going to be a learning process.

[Tacomagic]

I will begin fishing aggressively then, once I am set up. Although there are so many fish that depopulating them would be rough.

Also I intend to test my tanks out on them.

Of course, draining out the aquifer while building said tanks is going to be a learning process.

Unfortunately, fishing doesn't depopulate full-fledged creatures.  Rather, it depopulates vermin which are handled seperatly.  So fishing won't impact your chances of seeing the whale show up.

Sadly, to kill off the creatures you'll have to either kill them with DFhack, or get a bunch of really good marksdwarves to shoot anything that swims by.

[smeeprocket]

well I am making trap chambers anyway so I can airdrown things I don't want.

[pisskop]

well I am making trap chambers anyway so I can airdrown things I don't want.

This is a good way in increasing the cycling.

[Dirst]

D'oh. Yes, all giant animals and animal men are restricted to savage biomes. Also be aware that just because an animal can spawn in an area doesn't necessarily mean it will. In my experience the game randomly picks a handful of species to be common in an area, and everything else shows up infrequently or not at all.

Put the [UBIQUITOUS] tag on them.  Then they show up in every biome in which they're eligible.  That tag might not be compatible with some other creature tags, so it will take some error log checking.

[GavJ]

pressure plates and spike traps are probably better that cage traps if you want to clear out undesirables. Depending on how long you plan to have to cycle for, because they'd be more complicated. But something like:

^^^_^^^    ###  ^^^_^^^
^^^_^^^   ###  ^^^_^^^ along the coast

^ spike trap
_ plate
# cage trap
(auto cycling logic not shown)

When you hit the plate while hugging the coast, spikes start cycling and rip the thing to shreds, then new species cycle into the biome.

Just simply set the plate to have a maximum weight so giant whales won't trigger it and will successfully reach the cages, but other things will, saving you the time and micromanagement of emptying cages out.

On land, build artificial chokepoints by digging or wall building, and put in just the spike traps to always cycle land animals. I.e. build walls (or raised bridges perhaps) near the border all around, and leave a couple controlled trapped openings every so often.



Or if you just want it to work without tedium and don't mind cheating, you could go into your raws and remove every animal in your biome except giant sperm whales... then change it back after you've got a couple.

[smeeprocket]

I'm not sure how pressure plates are going to function with swimming creatures, I am thinking I might hoard a select few of these creatures in aquariums though, so I don't want to default to killing them. Also, it would suck for a giant sperm whale or even an orca or great white to wander in, which I would want to keep and breed, and be spiked. And flooding/draining the chambers for now will require a great deal of practice. But if the work becomes excessive I will opt for the pressure plate, and I will test pressure plates anyway the first time around. I mean, couldn't the water trigger the pressure plate by itself? If it can and I set a max weight, the plate will never trigger with the water on top of it.

Hmm mass slaughtering land animals like that might be effective. I would be concerned about blocking caravans though. But once I know where they are coming from...

[GavJ]

it would suck for a giant sperm whale or even an orca or great white to wander in, which I would want to keep and breed, and be spiked.

That's why there's pressure plates, and not just constantly cycling spikes.

Pressure plates should work fine underwater. They can definitely have water in the same tile as them, and if you set them to creature only, it should pick up water creatures. Just make sure the coastal zone you dig out is only 1 tile deep so they definitely go through the plate tile.

You specifically set whether you want plates to trigger from water or creatures or both, (or magma or minecarts, also in any combination)

[GavJ]

I would be concerned about blocking caravans though.

That makes one of us =P heh

But sure if you want to keep the pansy traders around, just build a paved road and put traps on either side of it, so that they're definitely safe, but the animals are extraordinarily unlikely to go through that one spot.

[smeeprocket]

Well I need something to do while waiting for the whales to show up. I thought about putting goblins on my pocket island to fight, but last fort I did that with, I was nearly decimated and it slowed my work down significantly.

I've added some monsters back in to try and keep myself busy.

Mostly I think I will work on fortress construction. The new site is 2x2 on a pocket island. The water from the ocean will, unfortunately, eventually cause problems with fps and I will see drops when flooding and draining the tanks. I also have to construct the tanks within aquifer layers possibly. There was really no way to get an ocean site sans aquifer.

I am thinking after attempting to build tanks before and considering drainage and such, I am going to have to build the upper half supported by a bridge above the water line. I can't channel the tile into the second z level down of ocean. But this could make it difficult to actually fill the tanks. I will need to consider this.

[GavJ]

There was really no way to get an ocean site sans aquifer.

Your traps only need to be ONE tile deep. The tile depth of the top ocean. You put cages there. Every few tiles, just simply channel down one more, which will be the aquifer. And put floor grates over them so whales don't go down there. Aquifers drain water. So when you close off the top level form the ocean, it will all instantly drain away into the aquifer and now you have access to the cages.

Now just carry the cages by hand down underground somewhere inside your fort where you have your breeding tanks or in the caverns or wherever. You would need to breach the aquifer to get down there and build, but you don't need to build a tank in the aquifer. Just a standard double slit stairway thing.

Then for example, your breeding tanks could be like:

AAAAAAAAA = aquifer
___| |_____
|...............|
|#####,,#|
            | |
           to side of map drain or cavern drain

... = retracting bridge
# = cage traps
,, = grate
both top and bottom have flood gates etc. not just always open.

breed in top, open bridge to capture parents and new babies to separate again

[GavJ]

coast traps:

~~~~~~~~~!# ,,| <--cages mostly, occasional grate over the occasional aquifer channels
                   |   |^| <--occasional aquifer channel AAAAA aquifers at this level
____________|

! = bridge to close off path to ocean allowing instant draining to aquifer and dwarf access to go pick up cages and walk away with them.

[GavJ]

Possible issue: bridges might not retract with giant whales on them. May want to just make the bridge only cover half the breeding pool to make it possible after a couple tries at least (when they all happen to be on the other side), then just wait for them to go over to the open side.