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Petro Poroshenko

5 (29.4%)

Yulia Tymoshenko

2 (11.8%)

Oleg Lyashko

2 (11.8%)

Anatoly Hrytsenko

2 (11.8%)

Serhiy Tihipko

0 (0%)

Mykhailo Dobkin

0 (0%)

Other

6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[Sergarr]

"Let anybody in the military dare, and they’d be shooting their own people, whom... who would stand up in front of us. Shoot at women and children"

That is a true translation of Putin's words.   I must say he did as promised and Russian "brave" soldiers  fight by using liveshields

Note that he wanted to say whom we will place in front of us

That was a pretty stupid speech by the way, exaggerated by the fact he backed up on his words afterwards.

However it did sprung the rebels into action, believing that Russia would support them in a immediate and direct way. So it probably was pretty effective.

[Knit tie]

constitute 15 - 20% of the parliament

"the new government in Kiev is going to be even more aggressive, even more radical, and even more dangerous"
"will now have to contend with even more right wing pressure to eschew negotiations and pragmatism with Russia, in favor of a destructive and unwinnable strategy of continued antagonism and provocation."
"President Poroshenko and his bloc and Arseniy Yatsenyuk and his “People’s Front,” both handpicked by the United States"

This does not strike me as an unbiased source.

While I disagree with the author's overly emotional style of writing, I find it a good summary of the elections. As for "handpicked by the US", I find it quite plausible that the USA would stick their hands in the pie, so to speak, I mean, they have quite a history of manipulating the politics in foreign second- and third - world countries to suit their needs.

[Sheb]

Knit Tie: It's a summary of the elections that was written right after the elections before knowing the results. You 15-20% "neo-nazi" (How is the radical party neo-nazi? They look like left-wing populist to me) are actually 6%.

How can you be a good summary of the elections results when it doesn't even have the correct elections results?

[Knit tie]

Knit Tie: It's a summary of the elections that was written right after the elections before knowing the results. You 15-20% "neo-nazi" (How is the radical party neo-nazi? They look like left-wing populist to me) are actually 6%.

How can you be a good summary of the elections results when it doesn't even have the correct elections results?

Okay, I need to stop posting in the other thread. Got it.

As I've mentioned already, I believe that the article is a nice, if not entirely correct and impartial, counterpoint to the official version of the election results, which downplays the nationalistic influence in the Ukrainian politics. Of course, many things are exagerrated, but so is the case with the majority of western mainstream media.

EDIT: Here's some more delicious, delicious flamebait.

PSEUDOEDIT: And also I would like to give some more articles about the politics in Ukraine.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Nationalism is not the same as neo-nazi. Damn it. 

Also, labeling liberal as hell Sadoviy a Neo-Nazi is beyond absurd. Calling Donbass batalion neo-nazi is another piece of bullshit.

Saying that Jew Oligarch Kolomoysky uses neo-nazi Right Sector as his own personal army is another lol part

[Knit tie]

Nationalism is not the same as neo-nazi. Damn it. 

Also, labeling liberal as hell Sadoviy a Neo-Nazi is beyond absurd. Calling Donbass batalion neo-nazi is another piece of bullshit.

Saying that Jew Oligarch Kolomoysky uses neo-nazi Right Sector as his own personal army is another lol part

Well, the russian liberals are actually quite hardcore neocons, as exemplified by the late Valeriya Novodvorskaya, so I see no reason why Ukrainian liberals can't be actually right-wingers.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I'd like if it was true. But as a nationalist is rather sad that nationalists actually failed to get any serious representation.

I do think that Svoboda got what it deserved for all idiocy done but parliament is way too pro-EU liberal for my tastes.

[mainiac]

I thought you were pro-EU liberal?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Nope I am a nationalist and as I said before my ideal Ukraine is more or less European Israel. One part of that is done! We got our own Gaza Strip

If my views looks like too liberal for a nationalist, that is a problem of treating all nationalists like that guys who want to recreate the Third Reich and run a genocide or two

As for Pro-EU part. I am a realist. Ukraine in current state can't win any kind of war with Russia. Neither total, nor economic, nor war of attrition. Maybe we can win it in a style of 1980s Afganistan: victory that leaves totally ruined country. Not far away from defeat

Only two forces that can help us to win that war: USA and EU. So we have no other choice but have pro-EU and\or pro-USA foreign policy.

Besides, quality of life in EU is so much better, that becoming more EU-like is very good. Yet I believe that there are better alternatives than EU

[mainiac]

What you want is to be Israel minus the bad bits, I think.

So western Europe?

[Knit tie]

What you want is to be Israel minus the bad bits, I think.

So western Europe?

Everybody wants to be Western Europe. Most become Iraq in the process, though.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

UR, I don't think you want to be a European Israel. You'd be invaded several times (Possibly repelling them), face a lot of flak for potential war crimes and be filled with people of an ethnicity/religion that people irrationally hate.

What you want is to be Israel minus the bad bits, I think.

Anyways, out of curiosity, has anything in Eastern Ukraine really... changed much? I mean, last I checked very little had changed...

You see... Being invaded part is unavoidable. We have hostile nation east of us. It will not go away anytime soon, neither it will become  friendly. That is for decades if not more. Even if Russia will collapse and become fragmented, parts will remain hostile.

I want Ukraine to be as ready as Israel. Militarized society. High tech and battle ready army. Unofficial nukes. Spec ops ready to kill enemies of the state in any part of the planet and so on. Politicians who can say 'fuck off' to  human rights watch, amnesty international and others, when dealing with enemies

EU model will never give us that.

[mainiac]

Plenty of nations that aren't Israel are well equipped to defend themselves.  South Korea for example.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

It is sad actually... Switzerland got Mountains, Vietnam got Jungles, Russia got winter.  Ukraine got "highly defensible" steppes

[Helgoland]

Ah, I'm late to the party! Let us gather around the empty oil barrel that is this conflict and warm us at the flames...

On invading Switzerland: Nobody wants to, that's their best defence. It would be very easy to just bomb them into submission, but there's no resources there, no truly important tradeways that aren#t open anyway... All of Switzerland's riches come from its neutrality, and thus trying to rob them would mean destroying them.

Knit, let me transplant my question to this thread: How has your attitude towards this conflict changed over the past months?

Edit:

After all, if the desired and the real are the same, even the most odious propaganda mouthpiece needs not lie.

What do you mean by 'the desired and the real'?
Also yeah, journalism everywhere is basically a crapshot. I guess it comes from having to write something while knowing next to nothing.

Editedit: I don't know who posted this link, but I find it hilarious that they cite reports of the Russian invasion of Crimea as examples of 'crying wolf' over Russia invading Ukraine...