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[Owlbread]

Could you please give your definition of "ultranationalist" and explain why it doesn't apply to a rebel faction that is fighting to unite ethnic Russian majority territory in Ukraine with Russia by force?

[FearfulJesuit]

Meanwhile, I'm taking a class called "Interpreting the Russian Media" this term, and watched an interview with a very distinguished figure who informed us that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were part of a CIA plot to isolate Moscow.

[Knit tie]

Meanwhile, I'm taking a class called "Interpreting the Russian Media" this term, and watched an interview with a very distinguished figure who informed us that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were part of a CIA plot to isolate Moscow.

Who was it, if I may ask? Or, to put it differently, was that person pro-Russian or pro-American?

Could you please give your definition of "ultranationalist" and explain why it doesn't apply to a rebel faction that is fighting to unite ethnic Russian majority territory in Ukraine with Russia by force?

I'll let the Kremlin Stooge (or, more accurately, the guy he's quoting) take the spotlight on this one.

[FearfulJesuit]

Meanwhile, I'm taking a class called "Interpreting the Russian Media" this term, and watched an interview with a very distinguished figure who informed us that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were part of a CIA plot to isolate Moscow.

Who was it, if I may ask? Or, to put it differently, was that person pro-Russian or pro-American?

He was definitely pro-Russian. I can't remember his name right now, but when I get back to my flat tonight I'll dig up the interview transcript.

[Knit tie]

Meanwhile, I'm taking a class called "Interpreting the Russian Media" this term, and watched an interview with a very distinguished figure who informed us that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were part of a CIA plot to isolate Moscow.

Who was it, if I may ask? Or, to put it differently, was that person pro-Russian or pro-American?

He was definitely pro-Russian. I can't remember his name right now, but when I get back to my flat tonight I'll dig up the interview transcript.

I am getting this nagging suspicion that you may have been shown one of the worst examples of our politicians and/or propaganda. To be fair, though, Russian politics, unfortunately, have more than one example of people spewing vaguely pro-Russian insane drivel on camera.

[Owlbread]

After having read that article I feel more secure in my conviction that the Donbass rebels are ultranationalists. They just aren't necessarily Russian ultranationalists. They're something else. UR calls them Soviets - remember the distinctions he would make between them and Russian nationalists? They're like pan-East Slavic ultranationalists, who, if the viewpoints of said article are the norm, view Ukraine as an artificial construct dividing East Slavs. It's not a country to them - it's a "Ukrainian National Project". In practice pan-East Slavic ultranationalists are very similar to Russian nationalists and can be easily mistaken for them.

The reason why I call them "ultranationalists" rather than just nationalists is that, unlike a Scottish nationalist like me, they are using force and killing people to achieve their unification with Russia. They are very, very similar to the Ulster Loyalists. Another people created by a colonial power in a colonised country, partly accidentally, partly deliberately, who divide a cultural unit and allow the colonial power to continue to exert influence over the colonised nation.

[Knit tie]

After having read that article I feel more secure in my conviction that the Donbass rebels are ultranationalists. They just aren't necessarily Russian ultranationalists. They're something else. UR calls them Soviets - remember the distinctions he would make between them and Russian nationalists? They're like pan-East Slavic ultranationalists, who, if the viewpoints of said article are the norm, view Ukraine as an artificial construct dividing East Slavs. It's not a country to them - it's a "Ukrainian National Project". In practice pan-East Slavic ultranationalists are very similar to Russian nationalists and can be easily mistaken for them.

The reason why I call them "ultranationalists" rather than just nationalists is that, unlike a Scottish nationalist like me, they are using force and killing people to achieve their unification with Russia. They are very, very similar to the Ulster Loyalists. Another people created by a colonial power in a colonised country, partly accidentally, partly deliberately, who divide a cultural unit and allow the colonial power to continue to exert influence over the colonised nation.

I am afraid that's not what the article talks about. For instance, the "Ukrainian National Project" does not refer to any literal project, but rather to the way Poroshenko's Kyiv is trying to transform Ukraine. Sort of like the American North banning slavery while the South supported it.

[Owlbread]

This is one of those "Well, like, that's your opinion, man" moments, but I don't believe your interpretation is correct. Having read the article I identified the toxic pan-Slavic undercurrent (which is far closer to Nazi Germany's brand of Fascism than some swastika tattoos, and significantly more alarming) and interpreted it in that way.

[Knit tie]

I don't believe your interpretation is correct.

I don't believe your interpretation is correct.

[Owlbread]

I think you're trying too hard to put your own thoughts and opinions and words into the mouths of these people. You're only seeing what you want to see. I don't want to see what I see. I really don't.

[Sergarr]

Meanwhile, I'm taking a class called "Interpreting the Russian Media" this term, and watched an interview with a very distinguished figure who informed us that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were part of a CIA plot to isolate Moscow.

"distinguished" by the sheer stupidity, I presume?

[Knit tie]

I think you're trying too hard to put your own thoughts and opinions and words into the mouths of these people. You're only seeing what you want to see. I don't want to see what I see. I really don't.

We can always just agree to disagree and end it on that. When it comes to opinions, I am perfectly fine with people having a different view on things.

Meanwhile, I'm taking a class called "Interpreting the Russian Media" this term, and watched an interview with a very distinguished figure who informed us that the Charlie Hebdo attacks were part of a CIA plot to isolate Moscow.

"distinguished" by the sheer stupidity, I presume?

Imagine how hard I am going to laugh if it turns out to be Zhirik.

[Owlbread]

We can always just agree to disagree and end it on that. When it comes to opinions, I am perfectly fine with people having a different view on things.

I never agree to disagree with people because I still think they're wrong and knowing that they're still wrong annoys me. This situation is no different. I will agree to a ceasefire, however, until the next flashpoint flares up.

[Knit tie]

We can always just agree to disagree and end it on that. When it comes to opinions, I am perfectly fine with people having a different view on things.

I never agree to disagree with people because I still think they're wrong. This situation is no different. I will agree to a ceasefire, however, until the next flashpoint flares up.

How about a ceasefire with a promise by both sides to avoid deliberately bringing up flashpoints to expedite the end of said ceasefire?

[Owlbread]

How about a ceasefire with a promise by both sides to avoid deliberately bringing up flashpoints to expedite the end of said ceasefire?

But that's not a ceasefire, that's an armistice.