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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Both the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute were based off of the Roman salute. Obviously, the two focus on somewhat....different aspects of the Glory That Was Rome.

[XXSockXX]

I am an atheist from one of the most secular countries in the world, with the smallest proportion of people believing that religion is important in their life.

I also regularly use religious phrases and swears, our years are "after Christ" and "before Christ" and our anthem asks god to watch over our country. If you have problems with keeping religion out of politics or culture, then changing the way you refer to years isn't going to accomplish much. All these things are just surface details, unimportant ones.

I very much agree with this. I'm also an atheist and I really dislike it when religion plays into politics, but this debate seems a bit silly and very American to me. Does any of you think of Roman emperors when you hear "July" and "August" or do you normally associate Wednesday with Odin and Thursday with Thor? To me having years "after Christ" is just a name for an arbitrary way of counting years. When Christianity has faded into oblivion, people might still use that naming system for convenience's sake, just like Christians today don't get offended that there is a weekday named after the Saturnalia.

[LordBucket]

So basically what you're saying is "I interact exclusively with Christians".

No. Why would you even think this? Christmas trees and Santa Claus and elves and flying reindeer? What do any of these things have to do with christianity apart from the name etymology?

[Tawa]

I, personally, incorporate those secularly into my Pastafarian Holiday celebration.

To my knowledge, they have nothing to do with it aside from traditional association to Christmas and Santa being technically named "Saint Nicholas" (interestingly enough, this means Santa's decomposed guts are hidden somewhere in Italy.)

[Rolan7]

Christmas... is the celebration of Christ's birth...
Just because early Christians adopted a bunch of pagan symbology just to gain converts doesn't mean it's not an explicitly Christian holiday.  Particularly when most people don't even know that those symbols were originally pagan.

I'm sorry if you're joking or something.

Edit:  Yeah some people create Christmas-time celebrations to avoid being incredibly awkward at Christmas time.  I think most just join in the celebrations.  At least most halfway decent places call it The Holidays instead of Christmas season, because Christmas is... specifically... a celebration of Christ's supposed birth.

[Playergamer]

christmas is a religious holiday. the public has not considered it a religious holiday in ages.

i think we'll be fine.

* Playergamer teleports all the money on earth into the room and teleports away. you are all crushed to death.[/acronym]

[freeformschooler]

I wish there was a good picture of Santa punching a cartoonized Arius for just these sorts of discussions.

[Rolan7]

The public hears "Hark the herald angel sings" "Silent Night" "Little Drummer Boy" and other religious carols on the radio for over a month and you don't think this is religious?
Maybe you're missing the American perspective.  It's very painfully religious here.  Not to mention all the whining about how Walmart has to call it The Holidays instead of Explicit Celebration of Christ's Birth, And To Hell With What The Jews Or Anyone Else Believe.

[TheDarkStar]

We could always celebrate a holiday for everyone. For atheists, we can make up a holiday. There are no problems with this, right?

[Playergamer]

as an atheist republican from california, I propose we make the 25 of december "cover your ears day."

being serious, we could probably come up with a good holiday for everyone. everyone, that is, except godel and cantor.

[Tawa]

As a liberal Pastafarian from New York, I already have a holiday. Specifically, Holiday.

[XXSockXX]

Maybe you're missing the American perspective.  It's very painfully religious here.  Not to mention all the whining about how Walmart has to call it The Holidays instead of Explicit Celebration of Christ's Birth, And To Hell With What The Jews Or Anyone Else Believe.

But the problem is not in the name, it's rooted deeper in society. In a more secular society, people care less what holidays are called or where they come from. I have no problem celebrating Christmas, because that's what "holiday where you meet your family and give gifts to people" is named, it does not really have that much of a religious meaning to most people I know.

[Frumple]

We could always celebrate a holiday for everyone. For atheists, we can make up a holiday. There are no problems with this, right?

More or less. No one really has a problem with a period for solstice shindigs of whatever sort. That's actually kinda' the point with attempts to rebrand the solstice celebrations to something simple, like "Winter Holidays". Anyone can celebrate whatever during the winter holidays -- it's an inclusive term. When you actually have a specific, religion (or even cultural, really) based term for it, you're implicitly separating (and making abnormal) people who celebrate something else. Linguistic entrenchment of outgroup identification, or something along those lines. When... we could stand not to do that, y'know?

[Orange Wizard]

In NZ, nobody in the general public considers Christmas to be an "explicitly Christian" holiday. Because it isn't. Christmas is about giving gifts and eating too much pudding. My family (most of whom are nominally Christian) don't even mention Jesus or God during the holiday.

The only people who actually care about the whole religious side of it are churchgoers, and most of us agree that Christmas, in a a general sense, is not about Christ. Any meaning associated with it by the church is irrelevant to everyone else.

Edit: What do "inclusive" terms have to do with holiday celebrations?

[Helgoland]

Maybe you're missing the American perspective.

News flash: Large portions of the world aren't American! And you won't get anywhere by trying to push out religion in a quite frankly hostile manner. If you want a climate of religious tolerance, take a lesson from multi-religious countries like South Africa: Muslims celebrating Christmas and Christians celebrating the end of Ramadan, simply because their neighbors do as well.
What you are trying to achieve is religious sterility. But sterility is inherently unstable; so either religion will creep back in or you will have to have guardians watching with eagle eyes, squashing any supposed attempt at religiousness in the state, amounting to what paradoxically might be called an agnostic theocracy. You are simply changing the goal of the Puritan thinking you as an American inherited from your ancestors instead of freeing yourself from it!