Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Orange Wizard]

libraries provide free web access

hahahahahahahaha

[alexandertnt]

libraries provide free web access

hahahahahahahaha

Yeah, the only real reason why libraries provide free internet access is because governments pay for it. They get this money through taxation, which in turn comes from working and buying stuff. It's not actually free, and also would contribute to a (slight) increase in cost of various things.

You end up in a situation where the only reason why you have free internet is because other people are working to make it happen for you (or you are youself, if your paying tax).

There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but as far as I can tell this isn't post-scarcity (it just might look like it depending on your situation), in the sense that if people stop working on it (repairing/upgrading/expanding communications equiptment, fixing security exploits etc), than the internet goes away. It's not just "there", people are working hard to provide it.

[LordBucket]

The only reason we have free email is because the companies that provide email services pay for it. Would you therefore claim that email service is scarce?

if everyone on the planet each had a magic box with a button on it that every time anyone pressed it, a paperclip magically materialized inside the box...would you claim that paperclips were scarce because the work of pushing the button was required to generate paperclips?

Let's not require perfect solutions.

Post-scarcity is unlikely to arrive in totality from one moment to the next. It's more likely to be a gradual change.

We already covered this.

[alexandertnt]

if everyone on the planet each had a magic box with a button on it that every time anyone pressed it, a paperclip magically materialized inside the box...would you claim that paperclips were scarce because the work of pushing the button was required to generate paperclips?

If the magic boxes were scarce themselves, and wore a bit each time you pushed that button, than yes, I would.

[LordBucket]

If the magic boxes were scarce themselves, and wore a bit each time you pushed that button, than yes, I would.

In that case, sunlight is scarce because eventually the sun will burn out.

Go away and post in another thread. You're having a different conversation than anyone else is.

[Helgoland]

The sun is not worn out by us using the light it sends out. It's a false analogy.

[alexandertnt]

Go away and post in another thread. You're having a different conversation than anyone else is.

The only reason I contend that these free services are not post-scarce is because I work on stuff like this as a job. The more people push that button, the harder my job gets. It hardly feels like post-scarcity to me And I really don't think my job is as easy as sunrays.

I believe that my point is quite relevant, and that your just being rude.

[Jelle]

if everyone on the planet each had a magic box with a button on it that every time anyone pressed it, a paperclip magically materialized inside the box...would you claim that paperclips were scarce because the work of pushing the button was required to generate paperclips?

Since the creation of the paperclip is a production process, and human labor, no matter how trivial, is not infinite, the paperclips are a limited resource and therefore scarce. That's going by the definition of scarcity I can find anyway, I haven't studied economics.

Go away and post in another thread. You're having a different conversation than anyone else is.

Well that's a little rude...

[hops]

I think the meaning of non-scarce resources are that the resources are more numerous than human needs and wants.
If there were rivers of diamonds and everything is made out of diamonds, even though the diamond are still limited, they are not scarce.

[Jelle]

Yes there does seem to be some confusion as to the exact definition. I see some sources claim any limited good is scarce, while others say any limited good where supply is less than demand.

Here's what I based on.

In economics, scarcity refers to limitations--limited goods or services, limited time, or limited abilities to achieve the desired ends. [...] In fact, economists view everything people want, strive for, or can't achieve effortlessly as scarce.

[alexandertnt]

I think the meaning of non-scarce resources are that the resources are more numerous than human needs and wants.
If there were rivers of diamonds and everything is made out of diamonds, even though the diamond are still limited, they are not scarce.

Thats what "non-scarce resources" may mean, but not "post-scarcity society"

One important aspect of a post-scarcity society is, and the one I have the biggest issue in the context of internet services:

people would be free to pursue whatever they wished and you don't HAVE to spend all day working in McDonald's so you don't get turfed out of your apartment

Which is far from reality for many people working to provide various services, including internet services. Like me. If I quit my job, I get turfed out of my apartment, and if people start pushing that button more, my job gets harder (they generally resist hiring more people, probably because free projects generally have a rather limited budget. For some reason).

[Sergarr]

I'd advocate for 3D printers for everyone, combined with the 3D material producer and re-cycler.

Then add in effective cheap full-spectrum solar panels, and an electromagnetic water desalination, and we're pretty much set for a post-scarcity relative to the basic necessities.

[Cthulhu]

100% recycling and total automation isn't post-scarcity and is also thermodynamically unlikely.

I would put that under the second of my three futures.

1.  Post-scarcity.  I don't believe this one will happen.  If it does, nice.  If it doesn't, no surprises for me.

2.  Non-progressive "low-impact" society.  That is, a new paradigm more akin to pre-modern configurations where expansion of our means and way of life is not seen as necessarily a good thing.  If high-tech society still exists it has a limited scope and doesn't attempt to colonize the rest of humanity which is why it remains ecologically sustainable.  I don't think this one will happen on its own but it might happen after 3.

3.  We continue on our present course under the assumption that A. Post-scarcity will occur, B. Jesus will occur, or C. No assumptions or thoughts on the subject at all.  Eventually we exceed the physical limits of our planet's capacity to sustain us and in the ensuing ecological disaster, violence over resources, collapse of the resource networks you and I rely on to get our food each day, society as we know it breaks down.  Most people die.  I see this one as inevitable at this point.  It's just a matter of when and how bad and what happens after.

[Sergarr]

100% recycling and total automation isn't post-scarcity and is also thermodynamically unlikely.

I would put that under the second of my three futures.

1.  Post-scarcity.  I don't believe this one will happen.  If it does, nice.  If it doesn't, no surprises for me.

2.  Non-progressive "low-impact" society.  That is, a new paradigm more akin to pre-modern configurations where expansion of our means and way of life is not seen as necessarily a good thing.  If high-tech society still exists it has a limited scope and doesn't attempt to colonize the rest of humanity which is why it remains ecologically sustainable.  I don't think this one will happen on its own but it might happen after 3.

3.  We continue on our present course under the assumption that A. Post-scarcity will occur, B. Jesus will occur, or C. No assumptions or thoughts on the subject at all.  Eventually we exceed the physical limits of our planet's capacity to sustain us and in the ensuing ecological disaster, violence over resources, collapse of the resource networks you and I rely on to get our food each day, society as we know it breaks down.  Most people die.  I see this one as inevitable at this point.  It's just a matter of when and how bad and what happens after.

The bolded part is incorrect because you forget to account for the sun energy.

And the post-capitalism society as I envision it would be the most resistant to the society collapses because everybody can create most of the things needed for survival.

[jefam99]

in this post-scarcity society, are girlfriends regularly available, because if not, then we are back to wars over resources (just another resource people seem to leave out when thinking of free everything)