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[Taricus]

Unfortunately, a bomb bay (Like the one that Gunin so helpfully linked an image of) tends to be a rather glaring weakpoint. The fact that the only recordd downing of a stealth craft was due to opening such a bay is also far from convincing that such a thing is a good idea.

And Asea, the 14.5x114mm round we'd be using has about 20% more velicity, and about double the kinetic energy. I'm sure it'll work just fine against helicopters.

[Aseaheru]

Unfortunately, a bomb bay (Like the one that Gunin so helpfully linked an image of) tends to be a rather glaring weakpoint. The fact that the only recorded downing of a stealth craft was due to opening such a bay is also far from convincing that such a thing is a good idea.

Better than shoving them under the wings where its completely obvious.

And Asea, the 14.5x114mm round we'd be using has about 20% more velicity, and about double the kinetic energy. I'm sure it'll work just fine against helicopters.

You willing to risk the nation on that? And again, can two bumkins from the boonies carry one about and use it with next to no training?

Spoiler: Further argument over how we need missiles (click to show/hide)

Also, lets see what a missile can do, one that can be carried by two people in the field with next to no training:
Destroy a MBT
Destroy a jet
Destroy a helicopter
Damage a building
Damage a bridge
Damage and/or destroy a ship

What can the biggest gun able to be carried into battle by two dudes with little training can do (lets say a .50cal MG)
shoot down many kinds of helicopters
scare jets
kill people
damage a ship

If we want to maintain any shred of tactical flexibility we simply require a lightweight, man portable missile system. Dont bileve me? Try playing some of the more accurate wargames out there that take place in the 1960s+ without any manpads. You wont get far.

[Taricus]

Given that most SAM systems are mounted on trucks, and tend to be far larger than what most infantry can carry the lack of a MANPAD. And furthermore, I highly doubt a two-person missile weapon would do much to a ship at all.

And my intention wasn't to mount any weapons on an external hardpoint, nor to use a vulnerable bay that could certainly be used against the craft. If you can figure a way to mount missiles without using either of those, then I'll accede to mounting them on such a craft.

[Aseaheru]

Given that most SAM systems are mounted on trucks, and tend to be far larger than what most infantry can carry the lack of a MANPAD. And furthermore, I highly doubt a two-person missile weapon would do much to a ship at all.

Igla. Stinger. Redeye. Javelin. Milan. TOW. Three of those are mounted on vehicles and are designed as manpads, Two more are made to be able to be setup in the field by two people and are on vehicles. Plus, ships these days have less than half a foot of armor, excepting brownwater boats.

And my intention wasn't to mount any weapons on an external hardpoint, nor to use a vulnerable bay that could certainly be used against the craft. If you can figure a way to mount missiles without using either of those, then I'll accede to mounting them on such a craft.

In that case, tell me where you can put a gun on a stealth aircraft that (without sealing the gunport) willnot give the thing away.

[Sheb]

And guys, what about biological weapons? That's a cheap n' easy deterrent, right there.

[akkudakku]

I'm all for man deployable missile systems.

Their ability to wreck almost anyones day is a must in a modern military. Also who says we have to build missiles that cost millions.
We can build Air to Air micro-missiles that will overpower ECM systems.
We ca build wire guided SACLOS anti-tank missiles that are 'old tech' enough to be cheap but still are reliable in their ability to hit things.
We can build TV guided Air vs Ground missiles and superheavy 'smart-bombs'.

All we need is effective warhead designs to go with the cheapo missiles!

[akkudakku]

And guys, what about biological weapons? That's a cheap n' easy deterrent, right there.

Thats opening a can of worms. If we will try to use them then soon enough they will be used against us...

[Aseaheru]

Plus we would need to spend money making one that we can use then send troops in after without them dieing...
And spreading them via missile or bomb is nigh-impossible...

[Taricus]

So are nuclear weapons Sheb. But like nukes, nobody tends to enjoy having someone else with them

As for mounting guns on a stealth craft, very easily. You need to inset it far back enough that the barrel doesn't protrude from the body. Once you have that you're good to go really.

And Akku, I'm pretty sure that developing those kinds of missiles, and building them, would take up significant amount of resources.The airframe of the missile isn't the most expensive component.

[Sheb]

So what? Everyone hates us already.

[Stirk]

Considering we don't have a noticeable medical facility, biobombs would probably do just as much harm to us as our enemies. Especially since we are all in driving distance of each other.

[Aseaheru]

As for mounting guns on a stealth craft, very easily. You need to inset it far back enough that the barrel doesn't protrude from the body. Once you have that you're good to go really.

Nope! That leaves a hole, which allows radar to go in, bounce about and go right back to the receivers. Unless the inside of the gun is made out of radar-absorbing materials then it will go back out, and you cant give gun barrels crazy angles to bounce it into areas where there is no receiver.
Congrats, you just blew up a several million dollar aircraft. Theres a reason why they dont have guns unless they have sealed ports, and if you have that then you are ingnoring the "hey, bomb bays weak" argument.

[Parsely]

^^This.

Given that most SAM systems are mounted on trucks, and tend to be far larger than what most infantry can carry the lack of a MANPAD.

And furthermore, I highly doubt a two-person missile weapon would do much to a ship at all.

And my intention wasn't to mount any weapons on an external hardpoint, nor to use a vulnerable bay that could certainly be used against the craft. If you can figure a way to mount missiles without using either of those, then I'll accede to mounting them on such a craft.

A SAM is any missile fired from the ground. An air defense is layered, you need different sizes of SAMs. Smaller ones like MANPADS (similar sized missiles of which are also found mounted on vehicles) are for taking out operational aircraft, like ATG aircraft and helicopter gunships. You need larger ones to threaten fighters, strategic bombers and reconnaissance craft. All of this is REALLY IMPORTANT, you can't just ignore aircraft and rely on anti-payload weaponry! They don't just shoot missiles!

Of course not! Man portable missiles aren't supposed to be used on ships! >_> They're for killing tanks, fighters and helis! :v Much larger, water-skimming missiles are used to destroy naval vessels, and those are fielded by jets and combat ships.

Uh, how exactly do you plan to mount a weapon on an aircraft without storing it within or outside it? That's impossible. And aircraft are so fragile in the first place that a bay door is not a significant weakness. Mostly stealth fighters use them. Their primary defense is their speed and stealth, which is why they use the bay door, because an external payload breaks the profile of the fighter and ruins the .

We have F-16s anyways, their payload is stored on the outside, I don't understand where stealth fighters enter into this.

[Stirk]

Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor have guns. And they are a stealht fighter. So it is possible.

But not at all practical at the moment. Shouldn't we focus on our 100k strong infantry, instead of our near non-existent air force?

[Aseaheru]

Theres a reason why they dont have guns unless they have sealed ports