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[Stirk]

EDIT: Anybody know how to make nested Spoilers that actually work?

If you hit the = behind a spoiler, it makes whatever you type behind it the name of the spoiler.
Example:

[ spoiler=Example]Example[/ spoiler]

Becomes

Spoiler: Example (click to show/hide)

Example

EDIT

Also, why have rules for horsmen when we can't actually have them in actual game? And how are we going to keep track of all those positions?

[Andres]

Holy... That all looks good. Except for the fact that Phalangites should be able to charge, given that was used by the swiss quite successfully.

Thank you. It took me 2 and a half hours and I take a lot of pride in it. I'm just basing my no-charge rule on the Hellenistic phalangites and also because if they were able to charge it would [REDACTED] the game balance so hard it would [REDACTED] sideways.

EDIT: Anybody know how to make nested Spoilers that actually work?

If you hit the = behind a spoiler, it makes whatever you type behind it the name of the spoiler.
Example:

[ spoiler=Example]Example[/ spoiler]

Becomes

Spoiler: Example (click to show/hide)

Example

Yup I knew about that. A nested spoiler is a spoiler inside another spoiler. They don't work for me.

EDIT

Also, why have rules for horsmen when we can't actually have them in actual game? And how are we going to keep track of all those positions?

Two reasons. One, the system could be used for other games so it would be nice to have rules for cavalry. Two, Demestris (and Norogoth), being a city state on the PLAINS - the NATURAL ENVIRONMENT of the HORSE - has cavalry. Please let me have cavalry Cryxis, I've already been forced to age-up one of my characters in another forum game. I need to have cavalry.

Mountains: Extreme steepness, difficult terrain, lack of resources. -4, -5 for "Heavier" Troops

Wow. Considering that half of Sigylguard's strength comes from their Super Heavy pikemen, which is a formation that RELIES on flat terrain, I'd say they're fucked, maybe even OVERFUCKED. Their non-pikemen are also Very Heavy Infantry compared to Demestris' infantry core which consists of 80% Heavy Infantry and 20% Very Heavy Infantry.

In any case, here's the roundup of Demestris' military training levels and the numbers and types of troops per army:
250 Very Heavy Infantry - Efficient Training
1,000 Heavy Infantry - Standard Training
1,250 Archers - Standard Training
500 Heavy Melee Cavalry - Standard Training
General and Bodyguard - 50 Heavy Melee Cavalry - Specialised Training

All soldiers are armed and armored with metal, however these have all been imported over several decades from foreign nations and nomads and Demestris is incapable of producing its own.

Demestris used to be Isolationist but the many policies enacted by Great King Augustus (trade with Other, Sigylguard, and the Commonwealth; providing foreign aid during the plague; peacefully annexing the Council of Other) has elevated it to Standard. Maybe more if you think it's appropriate.

[Playergamer]

Sigylguard Army:
1000 Very Heavy Infantry - Efficient Training (Sigylshields)
3150 Infantry - Normal Training
500 Watchers (Mountain Rangers, basically. Archers or light infantry.) - Efficient Training
250 Engineers (Artillery) - Normal Training
100 Sigyl Reciters, plus Generals. - Specialized

Sigylguard forces refuse to engage in combat with the Demestris forces, retreating further up the mountains, and spreading out. Watchers harass the enemy, attacking foraging parties, while the engineers collapse pathways and set traps.

((Does that look decent?))

[Andres]

There are 4,000 reserve troops stationed in Demestris, all of which have Standard training. 1,000 of them are have the metal arms and armour of Heavy Infantry and another 1,000 the same but for archers. Everyone else, the drafted peasants and the 2,000 other reserves, have the weapons quality of wood.

Here's a calculation I did to find out how many drafted peasants are inside Demestris:
Population - (Popluation * Percentage of children (under 18) included in population - Active armed forces - Reserve armed forces
150,000 - (150,000 * 0.31 = 46,500) - 15,000 - 4,000 = 84,500
Inside the walls of Demestris are 84,500 Drafted Peasants with Wood equipment, 2,000 Standard Trained soldiers with Wood equipment, 1,000 Standard Trained heavy infantry with Metal equipment, and 1,000 Standard Trained archers with Metal equipment.

[Andres]

*Double post because important!
Oh crap crap crap crap CRAP! I WENT TO WAR WITH THE WRONG GUY! I was supposed to go to war with AERINDINUS not Sigylguard! I got the two bloody countries mixed up! Damn it! I don't want to fight freaking pacifists! I want to fight the pikemen and the crossbowmen and the ballistae of Aerindinus! DAMN IT!

[The Great Kingdom of Demestris offers unconditional peace to the Sigylguard. If they decline, we will continue to invade and use the soldiers that we got from the Council of Other as guides through the mountains. The Great King and Senate has recently discovered that they did NOT in fact have it coming and is deeply regretful for the actions taken by the Great Kingdom of Demestris. They are glad, however, that as of yet, nobody has died in the war.]

Military Actions (Very classified)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All of Demestris' active armies move to the territory of the Council of Other.

[TCM]

Mountains: Extreme steepness, difficult terrain, lack of resources. -4, -5 for "Heavier" Troops

Wow. Considering that half of Sigylguard's strength comes from their Super Heavy pikemen, which is a formation that RELIES on flat terrain, I'd say they're fucked, maybe even OVERFUCKED. Their non-pikemen are also Very Heavy Infantry compared to Demestris' infantry core which consists of 80% Heavy Infantry and 20% Very Heavy Infantry.

In any case, here's the roundup of Demestris' military training levels and the numbers and types of troops per army:
250 Very Heavy Infantry - Efficient Training
1000 Heavy Infantry - Standard Training
1250 Archers - Standard Training
500 Heavy Melee Cavalry - Standard Training
General and Bodyguard - 50 Heavy Melee Cavalry - Specialised Training

All soldiers are armed and armored with metal, however these have all been imported over several decades from foreign nations and nomads and Demestris is incapable of producing its own.

Demestris used to be Isolationist but the many policies enacted by Great King Augustus (trade with Other, Sigylguard, and the Commonwealth; providing foreign aid during the plague; peacefully annexing the Council of Other) has elevated it to Standard. Maybe more if you think it's appropriate.

I like that our two systems are actually congruent, with yours handling actual combat while mine determines bonuses and penalties determined before the battle even starts.

As you put, yes, Super Heavy Pikemen offensively assaulting a Mountainous region would be "Overfucked". It's hard enough for a knowledgeable modern hiker, equipped with the proper gear, to ascend a mountain, which means it's exponentially harder for someone wearing loads of metal equipment to transverse the same environment, which is why we see few mountain offensives in history being won by Heavy Infantry. The terrain is far better suited for Light Infantry and Missile units, and possible Cavalry, which we seem to not have.
Pikemen would have their usages in mountainous terrain. For example, the -5 penalty is towards offense, not defense. It would be quite effective for Pikemen to form a Phalanx or a similar maneuver at the bottom of a mountain, as Infantry attacking from the mountain would effectively be sprinting on a downwards slope towards a wall of spears, effectively turning the Pikemen into a sort of Human Spike Trap. On the other side of things, after lighter forces clear the mountains, the Pikemen could secure their conquered position, (albeit they'd always be slow at ascending the mountains, so there would be some waiting time in between) and Pikemen being used defensively from the mountains would be very effective. Imagine the enemy struggling up unforgiving slopes, already tired by the effort exerted to reach a mountainous city or fort, only to find that waiting for them is an entrenched line of Pikemen.

Another element that could influence battles are present structures: Walls, Forts, Traps, etc.

Your information fits all the standards. I'll get my own numbers, but first I'd like to find an appropriate scale for the game, in terms of what my total population would be, to base my numbers on the possible size of my army, which would be among the largest due the nation's nature.

The second factor I think Ideology should influence would be the amount of consenting troops a nation could recruit. Pacifists, for example, would reject fighting and would be poor soldiers, and very possibly desert or subvert their armies. A Jingoist nation like Sapiastan would have a much more willing and larger pool of recruits. A downside to being Militaristic is that the more willing your nation is to fight, the less likely they are to reject or negotiate possible wars, and even if the nation is clearly losing the war, it would be unpopular for you as leader to admit defeat.

[Taricus]

Bwahahahahahah. On the other hand, declaring war on me would've had one rather big problem: The river

[Andres]

-snip-

Wow. I just now realised that the whole bonuses from before actually came from you. I thought that that was posted by Cryxis to tell us how war would be done and how bonuses would be applied. Very good work I must say.

As you put, yes, Super Heavy Pikemen offensively assaulting a Mountainous region would be "Overfucked". It's hard enough for a knowledgeable modern hiker, equipped with the proper gear, to ascend a mountain, which means it's exponentially harder for someone wearing loads of metal equipment to transverse the same environment, which is why we see few mountain offensives in history being won by Heavy Infantry. The terrain is far better suited for Light Infantry and Missile units, and possible Cavalry, which we seem to not have.
Pikemen would have their usages in mountainous terrain. For example, the -5 penalty is towards offense, not defense. It would be quite effective for Pikemen to form a Phalanx or a similar maneuver at the bottom of a mountain, as Infantry attacking from the mountain would effectively be sprinting on a downwards slope towards a wall of spears, effectively turning the Pikemen into a sort of Human Spike Trap. On the other side of things, after lighter forces clear the mountains, the Pikemen could secure their conquered position, (albeit they'd always be slow at ascending the mountains, so there would be some waiting time in between) and Pikemen being used defensively from the mountains would be very effective. Imagine the enemy struggling up unforgiving slopes, already tired by the effort exerted to reach a mountainous city or fort, only to find that waiting for them is an entrenched line of Pikemen.

Actually, there's a big problem here. Pikemen would not do well in ANY case unless fighting an enemy in the open field or on flat terrain. The thing about mountains is that not only are they steep, they're very rough. You have to remember that on the 'small-scale' of mountain terrain there's still of bumps and stuff that get in the way. In that way, Total War doesn't portray mountains very well. Any massive wall of pikes (I'm using the Hellenistic model, not whatever Swiss stuff came after) is only effective when it's 'straight' and orderly which would mean NO big deviations in immediate terrain can be allowed. It really doesn't matter what direction the pikemen are facing they won't be able to fight effectively in mountains. Just Google Images 'mounatin terrain' and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Spoiler: Example (click to show/hide)

Think a phalanx will work in this terrain?

Another element that could influence battles are present structures: Walls, Forts, Traps, etc.

Your information fits all the standards. I'll get my own numbers, but first I'd like to find an appropriate scale for the game, in terms of what my total population would be, to base my numbers on the possible size of my army, which would be among the largest due the nation's nature.

The second factor I think Ideology should influence would be the amount of consenting troops a nation could recruit. Pacifists, for example, would reject fighting and would be poor soldiers, and very possibly desert or subvert their armies. A Jingoist nation like Sapiastan would have a much more willing and larger pool of recruits. A downside to being Militaristic is that the more willing your nation is to fight, the less likely they are to reject or negotiate possible wars, and even if the nation is clearly losing the war, it would be unpopular for you as leader to admit defeat.

Yup. All this is good.

Bwahahahahahah. On the other hand, declaring war on me would've had one rather big problem: The river

So what? The Council of Other has river craft and if I had to I could just ask Sigylguard for some boats. Then I just land across the river and war you.

EDIT:

If the other player has a copy of Rome 2, then it's possible that we can just settle it in a multiplayer battle.
A more feasible option however, is to do the battle in a modified Crusader Kings 2-style. I'll post it here in a bit.

We should probably just do what he has planned. I don't have either of those (video?) games and never played them. This would probably give you a massive advantage over everyone else, seeing as you suggested it. What is wrong with the good old D20?

Yeah, they're both video games. Rome 2 Total War has an excellent battle system. ALL Total War games have excellent battles systems, with the possible of the first two entries - Shogun and Medieval. Everything from Rome Total War onwards is pretty good though.
Crusader Kings 2 is a Grand Strategy game and battles aren't a big part of it. It's just where I got the 'phases' idea from, though I heavily expanded on it. The problem with the D20 system is that it's a bit limiting in some most regards and doesn't leave a lot of room for in-depth tactics. If the forum game 'Lordship' is anything to go by the D20 system works well from a narrative point, however. I think that game used a D6 though...

[Taricus]

Problem is that Aerindinus uses the swiss tactics, not the Hellenic phalanx. Which means that it's used as a more mobile formation, and used aggressively in charges against the enemy.

[Andres]

Problem is that Aerindinus uses the swiss tactics, not the Hellenic phalanx. Which means that it's used as a more mobile formation, and used aggressively in charges against the enemy.

I should probably mention now that I don't know anything about Swiss tactics. I know that they didn't carry shields but that's about it.

[Taricus]

The swiss pike square was more manoeuvrable And was well trained and disciplined. Furthermore, they were also able to swing their pikes around to face any direction if the formation was stationary, and usually pretty fast. It did need support if it was offensive though, in order to keep it from being flanked.

Also, you won't midn if I make a modification to my military? After running a few numbers, I found the amount of artillery was rather... insane so... 

[Andres]

Too late. You can make some minor modifications like I did with my infantry but it wouldn't be fair if I forced you to endure a massive redesign of my army to be built specifically to combat yours.

[Taricus]

Eh, it's more a redesign to make it less... retarded. Furthermore, the redesign isn't designed as a specific counter. Just a general change which is mostly cutting back the artillery in it, and putting those troops as archers or such.

[Andres]

*sigh* I'll allow them to be swapped out, but you have too many unbeatable infantrymen already. Archers only. On a side note, can you give me your current troop count? Retarded artillery numbers and crewmembers included.

[Taricus]

1440 Pikemen
720 Light Infantry
720 Crossbowmen
1620 Artillerymen (648 Ballistas)

And that'll change to the numbers below:
1440 Pikemen
720 Light Infantry
1440 Crossbowmen
900 Artillerymen (360 Ballistas)