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Should other religions be added to this thread?

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Only Judeism
Only Islam
Yes to both Judeism and Islam

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Author Topic: Christian beliefs and discussion  (Read 192809 times)

Frumple

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1980 on: November 03, 2014, 09:32:49 pm »

Yeah, more or less. Which y'alls don't, at least in that case. You're good.

But yeah, Chick's more or less one of those litmus tests. If your beliefs actually align 100% with one of his own... something has probably gone wrong. Dude be loco, y'know? I mean, I know religious nuts. I live around them. Did some housework for one, fairly recently. Chick is... one of those in the next stage of scriptural mangling insanity. There's stages beyond him, but only a couple.
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Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1981 on: November 03, 2014, 09:34:30 pm »

Is there any scriptural support that says god chooses the BEST reality to happen, I mean he did give us free will and we all see how that turned out
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Gentlefish

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1982 on: November 03, 2014, 09:38:10 pm »

Hmm. Voltaire did write a novel about that...

Rolan7

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1983 on: November 03, 2014, 09:41:25 pm »

Also I still don't care what others say, including all of you, prayer helped me out of depression and I believes it has saved my life among others.
Yeah this could definitely be true.  I bet prayer has saved a lot of people from depression, even suicide.  It has real tangible benefits for mental health.

It doesn't deflect cars or lightning bolts, or help people who aren't aware of it, but it's still a useful practice.  Unfortunately some people pursue it *instead* of rational problem solving, or become distrustful of scientific solutions...  Which is a shame, particularly when they start trying to legislate, but I digress.

I actually pray, myself.  A few times when I was young, circumstances arose that I was bicycling during thunderstorms.  I've always loved thunderstorms, even more than I fear them.  Once the rain was so thick that I didn't dare keep riding for fear of cars hitting me, and I also felt exposed on the road.  Lightning was flashing every 10 seconds or so, and the thunder was only a handful of seconds away.  I carried my bike down the embankment and into the trees.  I was completely soaked, of course, but it was April so the rain was only cool.  I sat down on a downed tree and just waited for the storm to pass.  I sat there for almost an hour wondering how much danger I was actually in.  I was actually pretty certain the danger was low, statistically.  But it's hard to concentrate on that when lightning is striking less than a mile from you, with its random timing and location.  I wondered if I'd the static charge right before, or if I was too wet.  I tried calling my brother (in another city) just to chat, but he didn't pick up... then my phone stopped responding from all the water.

I was stuck in a breathtakingly beautiful forest, fully immersed in the sound of rain on the leaves, completely drenched.  At any moment I could die instantly, or more likely witness a tree shatter in blinding light and deafening noise.  So...  I prayed.  I noted that the storm was a very impressive and beautiful one.  I acknowledged my vulnerability and mortality.  I expressed heartfelt gratitude that I was in the situation, and resolved to spend more time appreciating nature from that point on.

I'm not taking a theological stance on the existence of any sort of nature spirit...  Though if there was one, I was talking to it.  I really hope there is, but it doesn't really matter...  It doesn't have to be real.  What matters is that since then, every time it rains, I take a little time (as much as I feel like) to think about how much I appreciate rain and trees.  Also how much I appreciate my life, and the time I have because I didn't die in that thunderstorm.  I always start out by saying (or subvocalizing) the same six words, a tiny litany which gets me started thinking about the event.

So I guess...  There's nothing wrong with prayer, or believing in things.  As long as you still get off the road when the thunderstorm hits ;)

Though belief shouldn't obstruct the scientific process.  My theoretical forest spirit did nothing but listen, so its existence is a non-issue.  If I thought I could survive lightning storms by sacrificing phones and saying certain words, I would have a problem.  If other people started believing the same thing, we'd have a problem.  If we decided that anyone who doesn't believe gets struck by lightning forever when they die, well...

Oh Gaia, 1819 new replies.  Heh, Jack Chick.  So scary it's funny.
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Frumple

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1984 on: November 03, 2014, 09:44:13 pm »

Is there any scriptural support that says god chooses the BEST reality to happen, I mean he did give us free will and we all see how that turned out
I'm actually mildly sure there's zero scriptural support whatsoever for the existence of alternate realities, choosing the best path among many, and whatnot. At least little to nothing explicit.* Honestly, from the scriptural perspective, it's arguable how much of a damn YWHW even gives in regards to making reality anything even remotely approaching good. Critter's noted as having a plan, but whether we'll be particularly happy about it is an entirely different discussion. Much of the biblical depictions of heaven are pretty exclusivist, iirc, and the lead up to the end of times and whatnot pretty damned unpleasant.

Basically, the best reality for YWHW may not be (probably isn't) the best reality for mankind, y'ken?

*Most of that kind of theological work arose from (much) later theological consideration, iirc. Best of all possible worlds stuff is... enlightenment era thinking, I think? Maybe a bit (few centuries, whatever) before? Forget how soon that sort of spiel started showing up.
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Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1985 on: November 03, 2014, 09:51:56 pm »

I will say in respons to Rolan7 that after I accepted death as the only end in life, realized my mortality , and thought hard on what if I'm wrong and there is no god. That I have an unholy greater appreciation for this world and this life, I try to appreciate it as much as I can and I think knowing your own mortality helps that. Though I believe there is heaven for me there is nothing keeping me from appreciating the beauty that is here

As for scientific reasoning, I try to accept it but yes my views are more biased toward religion
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Arcvasti

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1986 on: November 03, 2014, 10:00:47 pm »

Found an interesting pair of Scriptures:

Quote from: John 14
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Quote from: Matthew 25
40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.

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Graknorke

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1987 on: November 03, 2014, 10:57:43 pm »

a 0/0 chance
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1988 on: November 03, 2014, 11:15:12 pm »

Although, I'd personally much prefer a Terry Pratchett like death where pretty much whatever you want/believe in happens. It seems to be a bit of both, given how a wizard chooses to reincarnate, but it seems influenced by what you believe and did in your life, too...
That'd be awesome. It's not particularly likely and doesn't make a lot of sense, but no "afterlife" concept really does in the first place. What was I saying again?

Oh yeah.
Found an interesting pair of Scriptures:
Quote from: John 14
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Quote from: Matthew 25
40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.
These verses are oft repeated in my church. The first is basically warning against people who believe all religions worship the same god and you can find him however you please.
The second (there's a very similar on in Revelation, I forget where) is part of the whole "doing good deeds in the name of God" thing. I'm not sure how literal it's supposed to be, so I usually take it to mean that we should try to treat people with the same respect and care (although not necessarily obedience, that might get weird) that we would show to Christ himself.
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Arx

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1989 on: November 03, 2014, 11:47:03 pm »

Re: praying wiyhout doing anything else, in my church that's considered dumb. There's a parable/story/thing:

A massive flood hit a man's city. As the water rose, he climbed onto the roof of his house and started praying to survive.
A minute later, a lifeguard with a rope wades past in the waist-deep water. He calls to the man and offers to help him but the man replies
'No, don't worry. God will help me.'
So the lifeguard leaves. A few minutes later, the water is most of the way up the man's hhouse and a person in a rowboat goes past. They also offer to help the man, but he replies thhe same way as before.
As the water laps at the man's ankles, a helicopter flie up and lowers a harness. The people on board are harder to discourage, but they eventually go look for someone else.
The man drowns.
When he gets to heaven, he asks God 'Why didn't you save me? I prayed!'
God replies 'I sent a lifeguard, then a rowboat and then I even sent a helicopter, but you ignored them.'

Or, to put it another way, if you pray to win the lottery you need to buy a ticket.
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Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1990 on: November 03, 2014, 11:50:29 pm »

I heard a similar one but it was a ship week and it was a rowboat a yacht and a coast guard boat that he refused
Same story though
I like that story
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Helgoland

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1991 on: November 04, 2014, 04:22:36 am »

Or, to put it another way, if you pray to win the lottery you need to buy a ticket.
That's an awesome TL;DR. Stealing it.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1992 on: November 04, 2014, 09:36:36 am »

Who wants to talk about exorcism?

For the longest time I thought nobody believed in exorcism anymore, but it turns out that at least Catholics really do. They just do that teaching at home so I missed it at Catholic school - among other things, my friends' parents apparently made them watch exorcism horror movies and told them those things actually happened. I can't imagine how terrifying that would be.

I know the Catholic church still has an exorcism branch that they pour some saddening amount of money into, but I don't know how often they actually perform them. Do other branches of Christianity still spend energy on this? I feel like demonic posession is one of those things we'd have a Youtube video of if it was real, definitely a teaching the church should ditch in an effort to modernize. But even Pope "The Rock" Francis openly supports exorcism.
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Sheb

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1993 on: November 04, 2014, 09:44:31 am »

Uh, never heard of real-life exorcism, and I'm from a Catholic country, even got a priest in the family.
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Cryxis, Prince of Doom

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Re: Christian beliefs and discussion
« Reply #1994 on: November 04, 2014, 09:44:51 am »

I don't believe in exorcism or at least not the conventional type that we have now.
Don't get me wrong, that kind of stuff happened in biblical times but i think it doesn't really happen like that anymore.
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