Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Baffler]

But that seems somehow worse because you're attempting to create a sort of horrifying secular teleology and overlaying it on your life like a video game GUI (in place of the old religious teleology). Instead of worrying about whether you're doing X or Y thing wrong, you now worry about whether you're doing X or Y thing fully, or fulfillingly, or authentically, and those are even harder to quantify than the already nebulous concept of wrong and right, and especially at the personal level.

I actually stood up and closed my computer and walked away when I read Paul Graham's essay that proposed that what "matters" in life, to you, should be roughly what will be on your obituary. Jesus, dude. I guess all those cavemen without gravestones didn't have things that really mattered in life. No wonder people nowadays feel like they have to videorecord everything: there is no God except Facebook for them to ask whether something really mattered.

You misunderstand me. I want to live an enjoyable life. Much like most other people. I could not give less of a shit about recording it anywhere except my own memory. But I also don't want to give in to hedonism and sin, because as pleasurable in the short term as it may be, it isn't the right thing to do and I know that full well. I want to try everything, but know that (in many cases) I shouldn't.

That probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense though. If I can tell just what I was on about in the morning, I'll write something that does.

[BlindKitty]

Well, I'm religious, and I am afraid of dying. Mostly due to fact that I instinctively fear the unknown, as perhaps most people. I am not particularly afraid of what will happen to me after death, though - I might hit the Purgatory, but after all, I will probably not hit Hell, so that's all right with me.
So, one might say that I am afraid of the dying, but not of death.

[freeformschooler]

Well, I'm religious, and I am afraid of dying. Mostly due to fact that I instinctively fear the unknown, as perhaps most people. I am not particularly afraid of what will happen to me after death, though - I might hit the Purgatory, but after all, I will probably not hit Hell, so that's all right with me.
So, one might say that I am afraid of the dying, but not of death.

Why do you think you will not go to Hell? If you believe there is a Hell, and anyone at all goes to it, it's hard to discount, especially considering the extreme lifestyle demands from biblical Christianity.

Spoiler: obligatory position warning (click to show/hide)

I am not actually Christian, although I used to be and thus can play the Christian part in many debates/forums. It would be sort of correct to say I believe that we, as a species, and the universe, are part of some huge practical joke. This viewpoint does not allow for benevolent or malicious creator deities. That wouldn't be funny enough.

[k33n]

I am not afraid of dying, as when my brain is destroyed I will be unable to perceive or think, and thus a non-state is painless nothingness. Living forever is a more disconcerting prospect. Ideally we as a species would be able to live for as long as we want and then die when we have had enough.

Every hello ends in a goodbye. The sun will die, but it also shone. The earth will burn away when the sun grows hot, but this end does not invalidate what happened on her. The universe itself will experience heat death, but it also was born. I will die, but I will have lived.

On the topic of afterlife:

a.) How does the concept of hellfire possibly square with a loving god?

b.) Seeing as the majority of the species ( including me ) have heard the word of Christ and rejected it, are we doomed to be burned forever in torment?

[Orange Wizard]

a.) How does the concept of hellfire possibly square with a loving god?

It's possible to love one person and hate another. Romans 9:13 reads "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated". In other words, God loves some people but not others.

b.) Seeing as the majority of the species ( including me ) have heard the word of Christ and rejected it, are we doomed to be burned forever in torment?

Not necessarily. If you repent and believe you will be saved.

[k33n]

a.) How does the concept of hellfire possibly square with a loving god?

It's possible to love one person and hate another. Romans 9:13 reads "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated". In other words, God loves some people but not others.

b.) Seeing as the majority of the species ( including me ) have heard the word of Christ and rejected it, are we doomed to be burned forever in torment?

Not necessarily. If you repent and believe you will be saved.

But God created us all, and is all powerful. He created free will. Therefore, God created some people explicitly to hate them and torture them for all time.

I have nothing to repent for. The majority of people are decent people. The majority of people do not acknowledge Jesus as saviour. The majority of good people will be tortured forever by an evil deity. This worldview sucks.

[Orange Wizard]

This worldview sucks.

I can't argue with that.

You're mostly correct. However, the idea of repentance is not being a "decent person", per se, but rather acknowledging that one has broken God's law and requires his forgiveness.
In doing this, it's important to realise that it's not about us, it's about God. We are so insignificant in comparison, to claim that what God's actions are immoral is arrogant and pretentious.

As you say - this worldview does suck. I hold nothing against anyone who doesn't follow it. It's completely rational to reject it entirely.

[tahujdt]

As for hellfire, I like Dante's interpretation the best (not of most of Hell, just the bottom of it). Hell is genuinely not repenting. It's being alone, forever. A person in Hell has been likened to somebody at a party who *refuses* to have fun. There's all this mirth going on around them, and they're sitting there sulking into their drink. (Achievement get: use 'they're', 'there', and 'their' in the same sentence)

Also, Jesus also describes it as "[something something thrown into the darkness]... Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Probably fits better, but that's one of those things that I'll find out when I get there. (get to the afterlife, not specifically to hell. )

As for dying, I honestly haven't given it to much thought. I will tell you this, though. I think I once managed to imagine what oblivion would be kinda like, before my imagination blew an emergency shutdown fuse. By definition, I couldn't think of what it would really be like, but if you tell me you're okay with the concept of yourself ceasing to exist, you're either lying, or there's something wrong with you, IMO.

[BlindKitty]

Well, I'm religious, and I am afraid of dying. Mostly due to fact that I instinctively fear the unknown, as perhaps most people. I am not particularly afraid of what will happen to me after death, though - I might hit the Purgatory, but after all, I will probably not hit Hell, so that's all right with me.
So, one might say that I am afraid of the dying, but not of death.

Why do you think you will not go to Hell? If you believe there is a Hell, and anyone at all goes to it, it's hard to discount, especially considering the extreme lifestyle demands from biblical Christianity.

Spoiler: obligatory position warning (click to show/hide)

I am not actually Christian, although I used to be and thus can play the Christian part in many debates/forums. It would be sort of correct to say I believe that we, as a species, and the universe, are part of some huge practical joke. This viewpoint does not allow for benevolent or malicious creator deities. That wouldn't be funny enough.

Well, the thing is: in Roman Catholic Church, the belief is that if you believe in God and do your best to follow his guidelines and avoid sin, you will be saved. You might hit the Purgatory, and there are differing opinions about how many of us will go there, but I am leaning towards the opinion that almost everybody will have some time to spend there, but since God is not only just, but also merciful, He wants us saved and will help us to achieve that. So I don't have anything to fear about. In general, God loves us and wants us to love Him, and while we are right to fear Him, too, just because of His immense power, it doesn't mean we should live in perpetual fear. On contrary, we should be happy, while considerate. After all, if you are afraid that you are on the way to Hell, the thing to do is to look for the nearest priest and confess your sins, which saves you from going there.

[Phmcw]

Exept you're still going to hell if you have the wrong one, ask forgiveness for the wrong thing, or die before getting to confess.

[BlindKitty]

Exept you're still going to hell if you have the wrong one, ask forgiveness for the wrong thing, or die before getting to confess.

Except not... If you are trying to ask forgiveness for something that is not a sin, the priest will tell you that. If you are _not_ asking forgiveness for something that is a mortal sin, well, this is your choice, so fare thee well on that. It is relatively easy to find a Roman Catholic priest in most places where Roman Catholics exist at all, and where it is harder, well, you can take some time if necessary. I'm not sure about that, but I think that in a pinch any Christian priest would do, and more importantly, in case of actually dying, it is perfectly enough to just feel sorry for your sins, as the lack of earthly possibilities can't stop you from getting back in God's good grace.

[Phmcw]

If alha is the one true god, you're going to hell for no hearing his word (or not, depending on who you ask).
If InsanityIncarnate is right, you  have no real idea if you're going to heaven or hell. For all he know, the passage about not eating shellfish is right and literal, and your lack of guilt for eating those lobsters is your ticket for eternal hellfire.

I mean, and that's another DF reference, how can those elf know that they are displeasing us, creator gods of their universes, simply by existing. And I'm not even speaking about the possiblity of a "god community" universe, where the one true god was actually different in the old testament, new testament and Koran hence the need for a new prophet each time. The first one could, for some intrinsic reason hate lobster and pork, while the second hated neither, and the last one hated pork and alcohol.

Some Christian think it's ok to be homosexual, and they are going to hell or purgatory, according to Roman catholics. Likewise, some Chrisitans belived that killing in the name of God was A-OK, which was confirmed by the pope,... so either they were right, or you are. One of the two will die in error, here.

[scrdest]

I don't fear dying so much as it pisses me off that we only get at best 120 years, and more likely 80 years. And that most of those years are with a likely-to-be bad body.

Hence my chosen profession.

Pretty much the same thing. I like living.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

If alha is the one true god, you're going to hell for no hearing his word (or not, depending on who you ask).
If InsanityIncarnate is right, you  have no real idea if you're going to heaven or hell. For all he know, the passage about not eating shellfish is right and literal, and your lack of guilt for eating those lobsters is your ticket for eternal hellfire.

I mean, and that's another DF reference, how can those elf know that they are displeasing us, creator gods of their universes, simply by existing. And I'm not even speaking about the possiblity of a "god community" universe, where the one true god was actually different in the old testament, new testament and Koran hence the need for a new prophet each time. The first one could, for some intrinsic reason hate lobster and pork, while the second hated neither, and the last one hated pork and alcohol.

Some Christian think it's ok to be homosexual, and they are going to hell or purgatory, according to Roman catholics. Likewise, some Chrisitans belived that killing in the name of God was A-OK, which was confirmed by the pope,... so either they were right, or you are. One of the two will die in error, here.

This all really depends on your (I'm going to guess I'm using the right word here) sect of Christianity
My church believes that if you accept god into your heart and beleive that Christ died for your sins with all your heart/soul/mind then you will have eternal life

So even if there are sins you don't personally ask forgiveness for a sin, god still forgives it since y'know his son died to forgive it.

As for killing in the name of god, I don't beleive in that at all. I mean in a holy war (religion vs religion) were you will be violently be murdered for your beleifs then you have the right to fight for your beleifs.
But human life is one of the more important things, that people who are good people don't need to die. Though Nineva was a good example of how god feels about people who sin perfously, then one of gods followers went there and shared his faith with them. If not for Johna they all most likely would have died.

[BlindKitty]

-snip-

And if you are right, I won't go to hell because there is no hell. So what? I believe that Roman Catholicism is true, and therefore, since I follow the guidelines I believe to be send by God, I don't have to fear hell. Why should I? Because I might be wrong? Perhaps, but you too might be wrong about your belief, whatever it is. Are you afraid you will go to hell?