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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Orange Wizard]

Yeah. I wouldn't think that's a very reliable plan, myself.

[freeformschooler]

a very good lecture by alan watts, though I imagine many have already read/heard it

[smjjames]

Theres also the part about where if you aren't christian and you comitted lots of sins, etc and you get baptized, your sins are washed away instantly.

I remember about a Byzantine emperor (forget his name, one of the Constantines?) who abused that loophole by not getting baptized until he was an old man and not far from death.

[chaoticag]

If God is really all-knowing then "cynically perform sins in the hope of one day being forgiven" doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

Well, part of being a Christian at the time was keeping faith with God. I remember hearing recently that faith's meaning has meandered a bit and ended up as meaning something around the ballpark of "believing", but originally, it meat something along the lines of "trusting". It boils down to trusting God to do his job towards you, and in exchange, you do yours towards him. Performing sins kinda breaks that covenant from that viewpoint, and so you'll have hell to pay (quite literally).

Anyway, this looks like an interesting discussion from this page onwards, so I'll keep an eye on things. Religions in general interest me despite disbelieving in the supernatural and divine.

[Graknorke]

But everyone sins, like it or not, so how does that work? Sinlessness obviously can't be the deciding factor, it has to be the forgiveness.

[chaoticag]

Well, I only really talked about what a man's supposed to do as I see it under the big umbrella of Christianity, and they trust and have faith in god to forgive their inadvertent sins. If you're acting out of bad faith with what you believe is your supreme deity, then well, your supreme deity owes you no obligation of doing his job, which is forgiving in this case.

It's not sin or forgiveness as a deciding factor, but expecting both people to do their part of a bargain that's the deciding factor here.

(and editing to add again, not a Christian. Never was, but stating things in how I see things on the subject from the perspective of if I was going to be one.)

[scriver]

How many good works you do has no effect on the Heaven/Hell thing. Ostensibly.

This is one of the most horrible things about Christianity in my opinion. Taking this to its logical conclusion, it means that as long as you believe in god, you go to heaven. Even if you're monstrous in life. Even if you are literally Hitler, as long as you have faith, you go to heaven. And conversely, no matter how virtuous, good, and kind one is, if one is an atheist, one is going to hell. Any god that would make such a rule isn't worth worshiping.

Well no, Hitler killed himself, so someone who's literally him doesn't get to go to heaven.

_{Today's post had been brought to you by Kidding the Point Completely AB}

[4maskwolf]

Alright, so...

1,2,3,4, I declare a flame war

Now I have to read over the last 20 pages and see what has happened.

[Spehss _]

How many good works you do has no effect on the Heaven/Hell thing. Ostensibly.

This is one of the most horrible things about Christianity in my opinion. Taking this to its logical conclusion, it means that as long as you believe in god, you go to heaven. Even if you're monstrous in life. Even if you are literally Hitler, as long as you have faith, you go to heaven. And conversely, no matter how virtuous, good, and kind one is, if one is an atheist, one is going to hell. Any god that would make such a rule isn't worth worshiping.

If this were the case then why is there so much material about being good to others. If God forgives you no matter what as of the New Testament then why bother trying to instruct people to do the right thing. Your actions in life are bound to have at least some sway in your standing in the afterlife.

Of course, it's entirely possible that heaven is such that even Hitler isn't an evil guy in there. Like, there's only his good qualities, so Hitler wouldn't actually be a bad guy. It's not like we have a surefire description of what heaven is like, whether it's people living on clouds or a completely indescribable otherness.

[hops]

Maybe your good part go to heaven, and your evil part go to hell?

So if you're too evil then most of you will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Maybe your good part go to heaven, and your evil part go to hell?

So if you're too evil then most of you will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

I'm assuming your kidding but if not

Your soul is one indivisible being that is either sent to help for not having faith in Christ or sent to heaven for having faith in Christ


(Ya I notice I've said some contradictory stuff and I really need to stop posting at 12-1 at night)

[Frumple]

*coughs*

Does the bible actually say the soul is one indivisible being? Doesn't seem to say it isn't, either, but a quick search for verses containing the word soul seems to not say either way. Usually talked about like it's singular, but... that's not exactly explicit.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

If post on that but it's almost 12 and I don't need more self contradiction




Also I would like to know how the other Christians beliefs are on last minute salvation (getting saved and having faith on your death bed)


In my faith it is ok and you are forgiven of all your sins, only if you have true faith in Jesus Christ so it can work but if your just on your death bed saying you have salvation to calm your relatives it doesn't work.

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

Also I would like to know how the other Christians beliefs are on last minute salvation (getting saved and having faith on your death bed)


In my faith it is ok and you are forgiven of all your sins, only if you have true faith in Jesus Christ so it can work but if your just on your death bed saying you have salvation to calm your relatives it doesn't work.

I'll give my personal opinion and say if you truly believed you wouldn't wait until the last minute to repent.

[Spehss _]

Also I would like to know how the other Christians beliefs are on last minute salvation (getting saved and having faith on your death bed)

In my opinion, no matter how much you tell yourself you suddenly have total faith, if you didn't at least try to be a decent person during the rest of your life, and you just expect that you can save your ass by doing a heel face turn and saying "Yeah, I was a huge prick in life but now I totally believe now that I'm 6 feet from death," then you're screwed.

I'll give my personal opinion and say if you truly believed you wouldn't wait until the last minute to repent.

Ninja'd, but basically this. Except more emphasis on actually doing good acts as well as believing.