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[Jelle]

afaik samurai carried both a katana and wakizashi, the latter being a backup or situationally when a shorter blade was preferable. Can't say I've heard of the two blades being dual wielded.

Don't think dual wielding was at all prevelant, apart from parrying daggers in duels and sometimes in specific martial art (with the emphasis on art) styles.

[BFEL]

I occasionally train with dual wielding (its mostly just some basic practice alone, so not exactly a master duelist ) and I can say that it definitely adds to attack speed, supposing you know what you're doing.
Note that I practice with dual short-sword length pipes, so don't expect to fight quickly with full sized weapons.

Anyway, this topic brings up a point I wanted to ask about myself. Specifically does anyone know a good martial arts style to learn for well....dodging?
I was looking at taking up Aikido at some point for this purpose, but that did NOT receive the MZ seal of approval. Basically looking for a style that would help teach me how to avoid hits, as I am TERRIBAD at that currently

Note: BFEL already knows karate (Kwan-mu-qan (no idea how to spell that) style)

[Phmcw]

When your sport is touch based, two swords are definitely better than one : you control your partner blade with one and attack with the other. I imagine it may work IRL, too. I rmembre that a really old escrime treatise mention it, wostly in duel and for self defence.

On a battlefield, I don't see any way for the tradoff with a shield to be beneficial : the shield is just too precious against arrows and unexpected blows, and of course in a line.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Side note
Me and my friends usualy do either 1 v1 or 6+ person free for all and occasionally a small 3v3 match

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

...6+ person free for all...

I still feel sorry for that one guy who, when trying to block my blade that I was intending to strike his torso, made the blade mildly jab him at the base of the throat, at the exact same time someone else hit his collarbone...he was up and running a few seconds later, but still...

[Tiruin]

Err, question. Can you do anything otherwise in LARP battles like striking away the weapon-hand or parrying away their weapon so you can go in for a torso hit?

My brother had a habit of hitting my hands really hard, which was the only way I've ever been hurt with those things... considering it's supposed to be lightest touch and striking the hand away would require force, I'd say no.

But parrying away the weapon, yes.  That was the whole purpose behind my dual-wielding.  Instead of bouncing the opponent's weapon away like a shield would, I'd try to catch and control it as much as I could to create openings.

:O
No wonder the many references to weapon-on-weapon poking away...
Use one weapon to 'dodge' the attack and the other to counter ._.
That seems very effective. Just don't mind the pointy//weapon-end on the parrying weapon and think of it as a deflector.

Dual-wielding \o/

[Hawkfrost]

afaik samurai carried both a katana and wakizashi, the latter being a backup or situationally when a shorter blade was preferable. Can't say I've heard of the two blades being dual wielded.

Well let's be totally frank, by the time the katana entered the picture it was regarded as mostly (but not entirely) a ceremonial weapon. Samurai were primarily bowmen in actual battles, or served as cavalry with spears.
The katana was used as a backup or for duels, and the wakizashi for collecting trophies, seppuku, and home defense.

Most tales of samurai with katana come from the post-Sengoku era, when many samurai became wandering ronin and armor fell out of favor (allowing a light bladed weapon to be truly effective.)

This is pretty off-topic though.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

...6+ person free for all...

I still feel sorry for that one guy who, when trying to block my blade that I was intending to strike his torso, made the blade mildly jab him at the base of the throat, at the exact same time someone else hit his collarbone...he was up and running a few seconds later, but still...

Ya I remember that

[LordBucket]

both a katana and wakizashi

Can't say I've heard of the two blades being dual wielded.

It was part of the standard techniques of one particular style that was reasonably common during a particular period, and pretty much unheard of outside that period.

moves with both swords... but yeah, definitely duel rather than traditional warfare based.

Ok, but that's fine for the OP. He's planning on dueling with friends rather than engaging in field warfare against armies.

does anyone know a good martial arts style to learn for well....dodging?

Ring sport styles like western boxing, muay thai and kickboxing often teach slipping techniques.  But they're slightly unusual in that it's generally expected that both you and your opponent will be wearing boxing gloves. Gloves change a lot of things. I'm aware of no gloveless styles for which dodging is a significant technique.

I was looking at taking up Aikido at some point for this purpose

I can't recommend aikido for much of anything besides the opportunity to socialize with people. Or possibly for its falling techniques if you happen to find a school that teaches advanced ukemi. For the most part aikido is, in my opinion, a silly worthless waste of time. It won't teach you how to avoid taking hits. It will teach you how to cooperate with your attacker.

<--10+ years MMA and did aikido for six months

Basically looking for a style that would help teach me how to avoid hits

Probably any traditional karate style would be good for this. I don't recommend karate for many things, but blocking is something that karate does both well and a lot. If you've seen the original karate kid movie where Daniel is whining about all the emphasis on blocking...that's not entirely inaccurate.


Relevant to thread, I found a double katana form. Historically accurate? No. Still pretty awesome.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I tested out my make shift eskrima sticks and they seemed fairly effective against much larger swords
I found them to be very effective at parry and block but were very hard to get in range to actually land hits
¨
If anyone was looking for cheap sparing equipment I suggest getting a 48¨ dowel rod and cutting it in half, put 6¨ of duct tape at one end for a handle and there ya go

[NullForceOmega]

As a practitioner of Shin-Kendo, I am starting to be extremely irritated by the mis-information being presented regarding the use of the Daisho.  The Katana is most analogous to a hand and a half sword, it's principle use being two-handed with very few cuts executed with one hand.  The Wakizashi was the principly ceremonial weapon, being used mostly for ceremonial suicide, but also as a fallback weapon should the samurais Katana be unusable.  Furthermore there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Japanese iron or steel, the folding method used to strengthen the edge of the blade, however, leaves it vulnerable to damage via lateral motion, e.g. it tends to snap if sufficient force is exerted parallel to the blade (but only side to side, front or back is irrelevant).

And yes, Musashi Miyamoto would be best portrayed as a braggart and murderer, his 'unique' sword style was built entirely on the concept of deceiving his opponent and murdering them, he had a tendency to challenge samurai only when conditions were optimal for him to win as well.  He was a masterless ronin who built a reputation and wealth by exploiting the code of Bushido for personal gain.

One more thing, the modern trend of making lighter weapons has nothing to do with the traditional Katana, one from the warring states period would be moderately light (5 lbs.+), but an older blade could easily mass 7-9 lbs., and I have heard from several of the sensei in the Shin-Kendo school that the higher-grade blades massed as much as 11 lbs.

[Phmcw]

As a practitioner of Shin-Kendo, I am starting to be extremely irritated by the mis-information being presented regarding the use of the Daisho.  The Katana is most analogous to a hand and a half sword, it's principle use being two-handed with very few cuts executed with one hand.  The Wakizashi was the principly ceremonial weapon, being used mostly for ceremonial suicide, but also as a fallback weapon should the samurais Katana be unusable.  Furthermore there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Japanese iron or steel, the folding method used to strengthen the edge of the blade, however, leaves it vulnerable to damage via lateral motion, e.g. it tends to snap if sufficient force is exerted parallel to the blade (but only side to side, front or back is irrelevant).

And yes, Musashi Miyamoto would be best portrayed as a braggart and murderer, his 'unique' sword style was built entirely on the concept of deceiving his opponent and murdering them, he had a tendency to challenge samurai only when conditions were optimal for him to win as well.  He was a masterless ronin who built a reputation and wealth by exploiting the code of Bushido for personal gain.

Japanese steel-folding technique was obsolete in Europe when it was in full swing in Japan. A katana is literally useless against european heavy armor, and too heavy for how short it is.

It's very good against japanese armor however. Much more remarquable was their gunsmiting, unparralled for a long time.

Katana were still remarquable weapons, with production technique well suited for the limited supply of iron ore and perfect for use in the mountanous environment of Japan.
It's a good weapon for skirmishes, indoor battles but not so much for the battlefield, where pikes, spears, guns and bows are kings anyway.

[NullForceOmega]

Back in the 90s, one of Japans tech schools got ahold of an unnamed Katana from the state after it was recovered from the bottom of the Tokyo river, they polished off the rust, edged it, strapped it to a hydraulic press, and tried to crush it, the blade SPLIT THE TEMPERED STEEL BLOCK IN HALF.  And the blade is hardly short, they ranged from three feet to three and a half, that's pretty decent length wouldn't you say?  And I am really getting sick of all this 'lighter blades are better' garbage, have you ever lifted a renaissance era knight's longsword?  The real thing, not a recreation?  They weigh nearly as much as a Katana, and have almost the EXACT same edge made specifically to cleave armor.  I've privately studied medieval warfare in Europe and Asia since I was twelve, and while I am definitely not an historian, I can say with surety that there was nothing inferior about Japanese bladecraft.

[Phmcw]

Everything you just said can be confirmed false by just reading the wikipedia pages of the longsword and the katana. A long sword have a blade lenght between 100 and 110 cm while a katana have a blade between 60 and 73 cm and they are both roughly the same weight.

And I insist that they used tempred layered steel to overcome the poor quality of the iron ore they had. In one sense, that's superior bladesmithing since they overcome their geographic disadvantage with this technique. But with the iron ore we had in Europe it's useless and laminated steel was abandonned in europe since early middle age (vickings made good laminated steel swords).

[Footkerchief]

Back in the 90s, one of Japans tech schools got ahold of an unnamed Katana from the state after it was recovered from the bottom of the Tokyo river, they polished off the rust, edged it, strapped it to a hydraulic press, and tried to crush it, the blade SPLIT THE TEMPERED STEEL BLOCK IN HALF.

Source?  I couldn't find anything with a search for "katana tokyo river hydraulic press".