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[TheHossofMoss]

I usually do my military once I get my economy (stone, wood, food, etc.) going.

Until then, I build a gate that I keep shut once danger arrives. Once the first siege comes, which usually is the next spring, if I haven't already got my fort's first layer carved out or completely made, I begin my training or looking for possible recruits.

I don't dare breach the caverns until I have a military though. No, no no.... that's not wise.

[Tacomagic]

Use stairs to the palisade and build fortications out from it so they overhang and stop many potential climbers (no promises... for some reason one was able to climb up when over the stream and shoot bolts IN from the fortications.  Ouch.)

This is why I build my walls with the overhang at Z+2 instead of Z+1.  Since gabbos can jump AND climb, they can jump up and grab onto the sides of the fortifications.  With 2 z's of walls and then the overhang, I think that prevents from from doing those kinds of monkey gymnastics.

[penco]

One of the main things is that I want to avoid walling off my fort completely at any point. Any strategy requiring that is not my cup of tea.

I mixed-and-matched some of the strategies mentioned for my most recent fort. This time I have just one dedicated miner, one dedicated farmer/brewer/cook, and then all the rest of the dudes are military and jack-of-all-trades. I have one crossbowdwarf hunter/butcher who has killed quite a few things and leveled his skills a good bit, and he has managed to create enough bones from butchering to support his own ammo supply (butchered my starting oxen to get the first bones for bolts). There are two axedwarves who were also lumberjacks and carpenters. And then two hammerdwarves who were in charge of building construction and blacksmithing. I usually just bring a few tetrahedrite ores, but this time I brought 10 of them and 10 cassiterite so I can get some basic bronze weapons and armor.

I am only at the beginning of summer so far. I have my soil room dug out for food production and stockpiles with a stone room carved out beneath it for a meeting area. My two melee squads are training with bronze weapons. Still need to make armor, but I think that can wait until the first migrants. I will update after a few more seasons.

[Tacomagic]

One of the main things is that I want to avoid walling off my fort completely at any point. Any strategy requiring that is not my cup of tea.

Due to the current siege bug, this approach will require a bit of luck, but is not impossible.  I wish you luck in this dwarfy endeavor!

[pisskop]

Another way you can do it is rush the magma sea.  It's riskier, but with proper precautions, you can get magma forges going before the end of the second season.  The issue here is that if you don't get lucky and find sand in the lower caves, the time you lose in hauling sand down from higher up is probably unequal to just making charcoal.

If you create a stockpile of sand and dump it via a retracting bridge you can expedite this rather safely.

[Tacomagic]

Another way you can do it is rush the magma sea.  It's riskier, but with proper precautions, you can get magma forges going before the end of the second season.  The issue here is that if you don't get lucky and find sand in the lower caves, the time you lose in hauling sand down from higher up is probably unequal to just making charcoal.

If you create a stockpile of sand and dump it via a retracting bridge you can expedite this rather safely.

Still, digging the path down for the sand drop through however many z-levels you need might be more time consuming in the early game than just making the charcoal, especially if you really need that mining labor for establishing your fort.  Again, it depends on how close to the magma sea your sand is, and how much open cave you have for making the drop easier.  World gen parameters are a factor here too.  The shallower your world, the more viable rushing the magma is.

I tend to gen deep worlds with all 3 cavern layers.  So I rarely rush the magma sea.  Typically, I breach the first layer and hope for a pipe.  If I don't see one, I go for charcoal.

Mileage will vary.

[ragincajun]

[/quote]

I tend to gen deep worlds with all 3 cavern layers.  So I rarely rush the magma sea.  Typically, I breach the first layer and hope for a pipe.  If I don't see one, I go for charcoal.

Mileage will vary.
[/quote]

So for learning purposes...a world has three caverns?

[pisskop]

So for learning purposes...a world has three caverns?

By default it does.  You can change the number and structure of them in advanced worldgen.


As it gets deeper it gets more fun.  The rest could be considered

Spoiler: s (click to show/hide)

:p

[penco]

One of the main things is that I want to avoid walling off my fort completely at any point. Any strategy requiring that is not my cup of tea.

Due to the current siege bug, this approach will require a bit of luck, but is not impossible.  I wish you luck in this dwarfy endeavor!

Can you give me more info on this bug? I can't find it mentioned in the wiki or bug tracker.

[Tacomagic]

It's this bug: 07417. Basically sieges no longer progress like they used to.  Prior to version 40, you could expect nothing, or at most a small siege until after the first big migration arrives.  Generally you'd get sieges that progress in difficulty the older your fort is.

In version 40, you can get full sieges pretty much starting the first month of summer, possibly earlier.  Sieges that you have just no chance of you breaking with straight military engagement.  My record so far is a group of about 40 undead during the first month of summer.

Now, just because you CAN have big sieges show up doesn't mean you necessarily will.  So if you're lucky, they'll give you enough time to build up before that group of 10 gabbos in masterwork armor show up to play. 

My luck usually runs pretty bad, though.  I typically have to wait out at least 1 siege before the end of year 2.  Usually something with 10 legendary gabs equipped with iron everything.  Or a horde of 20 or more undead.  As stated by Toady in the bug string, it's not intended behavior.

[penco]

Hmm well that explains why I am getting owned so hard compared to in the past...

[Rude]

I pick 2 of my starting dwarfs to be dedicated soldiers. I build a carpenter shop and immediately build training axes, shields, and a cabinet and set them to train forever (replace the training weapons with real weapons before they become attached). I build the barracks in a place on the surface near my entrance where I expect enemies (gobs and wildlife) will come through (in case an ambush is too close to react to, its probable that the military will be the first to see them and already be in position. No orders needed.)

I refuse to build inaccessible forts and don't use traps.

Sometimes the crossbows gobs shoot them down and I lose. Sometimes, one will single-handedly repel and chase down several squads. Sometimes necromancers resurrect hairballs and severed thumbs until they are overwhelmed and hoofed in the head. Most likely, they will see a fisher get gobbed in the head, sulk a few weeks and then throw a fit and axe half the fort in the head while the other half breaks the dining room until I rage quit.

I don't take things that I can easily make myself like ropes, thread, buckets, or axes. Instead I take raw materials like wood, bituminous coal, copper bismuth and tin ores, one refined coal (so I can skip the whole wood burning thing), a few stones ( just in case I can't get stones immediately) extra food and drink and sometimes a pair of egg layers. Bronze is CHEAP and better than copper, which is the most likely thing gobs will swing.

Later I split the 2 starters into 2 squads and add 2 recruits to each squad. when the recruits get around talented, I move them both to squad 3 and add 2 fresh recruits to the first squads. And repeat until I'm satisfied. If any recruit becomes legendary enough they get to start training recruits like the starters. Eventually I'll add turrets to the above ground and train 5-20 crossbow dwarfs depending on population. If I get bored, I'll cross train the melee troops to dual wield axes and bows (which I think is a bad idea, but it's cool.) or something else Fun provoking.

[Miuramir]

It's this bug: 07417. Basically sieges no longer progress like they used to. 

Note that it's not clear that this is a bug; in fact, it's likely that it isn't.  The old, simplified siege system gave you arbitrary sieges largely based on time, population, and wealth.  The new "living world" has distance to foes as a much more significant factor; if you embark within a few tiles of necromancer towers or hostile civilizations, you're likely to get small "bandit" groups very early on, and full sieges sooner rather than later. 

As wandering armies become more actual entities on the world map, you will eventually need to pay attention not only to how close you are to things, but to likely invasion routes between them.  If your isolated mountain pass is the shortest practical route between the Mountainhome and a major forest retreat, you could get hit with an epic-scale attack on almost no notice while at war. 

Consider placing your fortress as if you were establishing a new city with a Settler in Civilization.  Is this a fairly safe internal location that can skip a military unit garrisoning it, and start by building a monument?  Or is this a forward outpost in the marches, and needs some ready-to-go military and rush-building city walls?

[Tacomagic]

Note that it's not clear that this is a bug; in fact, it's likely that it isn't.  The old, simplified siege system gave you arbitrary sieges largely based on time, population, and wealth.  The new "living world" has distance to foes as a much more significant factor; if you embark within a few tiles of necromancer towers or hostile civilizations, you're likely to get small "bandit" groups very early on, and full sieges sooner rather than later.

As stated by Toady One, first year sieges are not intended behavior; but he's having trouble narrowing down the cause.

Regardless of whether it's a bug or not, currently without a turtle backup plan, you have a decent chance of getting wiped by an early siege that you can't do anything about.  So expect that non-turtle military-only strategies will be extra FUN!.

[Quartz_Mace]

Has invader AI changed? I had a Goblin siege that refused to enter my gates and just went about murdering random animals rather than coming into the entrance, even when we were right next to it.