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[Reelya]

Yep to that. Those arguments against the abolish-police-departments are effectively argument ad absurdum - the argument goes that if you do <thing X> then <ridiculous outcome> would happen, and this would be contradictory in some fashion, therefore <thing X> will never work.

The problem with those arguments is that you only need one counter-example where the crazy conclusions didn't happen, and all those arguments are just invalid by definition without needing to waste time addressing the specifics. If someone presents you with an argument that something can't work when there are clear examples of it actually working, it's a red herring / trap to get involved in a detailed debate about the specifics of their criticism.

It's like someone sticking a perpetual motion machine design in your face or challenging you with some flat-earth modelling they did. You can just reject those out of hand, because they're clearly wrong without wasting the time going through the details to spot where they got it wrong.

In this case, as in the anti-universal-heathcare arguments, which are similar ("death panels" is one example) they're clearly wrong-by-definition, because there exist examples of places which successfully did this exact same thing. Yes, there exist examples of places that abolished the entire police force and then reconstituted a new one along totally different lines. To say that can't work is like being an anti-flight person after the Wright Brothers flew their first plane. Whatever arguments you come up with are clearly going to be wrong before you even thought them up, because they're working backwards from a conclusion that was already wrong.

[nenjin]

Let's also note that black cops have done wrong by black citizens plenty of times in the past. I'd make them all reapply for their jobs.

[Reelya]

Definitely. Adding black cops has probably always been a bandaid solution to make it look like they're addressing the problem. When the problem is the system, the culture the training, and also corruption, merely grafting on preferential recruitment treatment or setting quotas for people with a specific skin color isn't going to change anything.

[KingofstarrySkies]

lmao fuck the cops

[SalmonGod]

Hopefully surprising no one at this point who isn't determined to be a bootlicker to the grave

Baltimore police testify in court that they were directed to carry toy guns to plant on people after shooting them.

A lot of police shootings have involved people with toy guns, earning the benefit of the doubt in those cases that they were reasonably reacting to a perceived threat that would force a split-second decision.  This should put those cases in a new light.

[TamerVirus]

"Open and shut case, Johnson. Just sprinkle some crack on him and let's get out of here"

[voliol]

I must be naive, because that honestly astonished me. A toy guy really should be a bad enough excuse that they’d plant real guns instead. Those are some incredibly evil cops and negligient juries.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They do plant real guns, but that's a harder ask from a group of people who half-ass everything they do. Toy guns are easy and just as acceptable of an excuse as real ones.

[Doomblade187]

I must be naive, because that honestly astonished me. A toy guy really should be a bad enough excuse that they’d plant real guns instead. Those are some incredibly evil cops and negligient juries.

Most of these cases, police don't get charged, so there's no trial.

[Iduno]

The guys who shot Rashard Brooks had completed a 9 hour de-escalation training less than a week before.  I don't think training is how to fix this.  Gotta rip it out by the roots

Most cities have most of the proposed changes already implemented. It's a smokescreen so the ruling class doesn't have to give up anything in exchange for protests stopping.

Definitely. Adding black cops has probably always been a bandaid solution to make it look like they're addressing the problem. When the problem is the system, the culture the training, and also corruption, merely grafting on preferential recruitment treatment or setting quotas for people with a specific skin color isn't going to change anything.

Same as the bullshit suggestion that we solve problems with ICE and other groups by having more women and non-whites torturing people instead of white men doing it.

[Rolan7]

Real guns have serial numbers and stuff, and it apparently doesn't need to be real to "justify" shooting the victim.

[Max™]

It's also victim-blaming to the level of blaming rape victims for their assaults if they did anything that left them vulnerable, and saying that this somehow absolves the rapist of guilt.

He's not a victim just because he got killed and happened to be black. Brooks attacked cops without provocation, stole their weapon, and shot at them. He was a violent criminal and an active threat.

They questioned him for half an hour then went to cuff him, one of them pulled a taser and during the scuffle he got it from them, I'm sure he said something like "he's got my taser" but to be fair he may have said "HE'S GOT A WEAPON NOW, TIME TO KILL HIM" because again, cops do that.

He was a threat to one person in the sense that he might tase someone if he hit and stopped running.

A running target is not threatening, it's as non-threatening as it gets, really, the fuck kinda shit you gotta do to jump through the logical hoops to see someone running from two probable murderers with a single shot less-lethal weapon as a violent criminal and a threat?

They frisked him before cuffs came out, he magically got a gun out of his butt? Both cops had theirs, are they just being careful in case their buddy ALSO lost their gun instead of one of them losing their taser? Why the assumption he's a criminal automatically? He's what you call a murder victim, he was murdered by two cowards who had him outnumbered, outgunned, and believed they were justified in murdering him.

I don't accept the idea that the state is allowed to exert violence against me as valid, it doesn't do it reasonably, it doesn't control said violence, it is a lumbering behemoth grinding the little things living in it's shadow to death accidentally all the time.

I am tiny and weak compared to it, I cannot even defend myself against it, much less prevent it from harming others, all I can do is rely on agility and knowledge to learn where it has blind spots because I do not trust it with the power it wields, I am not safe around it, neither are you, it simply hasn't noticed you at the moment, and it is not about to step on you probably.

Cops are the toxic little antibodies operating within this behemoth, co-opted from the population of little creatures it looms over, and turned against them. They do not exist to help anything except the bureaucratic beast and it's riders stay on top, the difference between you, and me, and a criminal is a matter of where said beast looks and what said riders whisper into it's ears. Do not be so quick to bandy that label around for them, it is too easily turned into an ever widening noose for us little stompable things.

[Folly]

In this case, as in the anti-universal-heathcare arguments, which are similar ("death panels" is one example) they're clearly wrong-by-definition, because there exist examples of places which successfully did this exact same thing. Yes, there exist examples of places that abolished the entire police force and then reconstituted a new one along totally different lines. To say that can't work is like being an anti-flight person after the Wright Brothers flew their first plane. Whatever arguments you come up with are clearly going to be wrong before you even thought them up, because they're working backwards from a conclusion that was already wrong.

Different people are different. You can blame nature or nurture or whatever, but the fact is that people in one country will react to a set of circumstances in a completely different way compared to people in another country.
Americans are assholes. And they are entrenched within a system that is designed from the ground up to train them to be assholes, and indeed require them to be assholes on a daily basis just to survive. Any sort of proposed policy that hinges upon the assumption that Americans will be decent and reasonable to one another is doomed to failure, regardless of precedent set by other countries who succeeded with similar policies.

A running target is not threatening, it's as non-threatening as it gets, really

A target who is aiming a weapon and shooting at you is as threatening as it gets. The fact that he was moving away only served to remove any option of disarming him and ending his threat without utilizing a gun.

[Naturegirl1999]

@Folly
Just because someone lives in the USA does not mean they are an asshole. I live there, have all my life, and I’m nice to everyone who’s nice to me, which is a lot of people. While some people here are assholes, not everyone is. Also, if a person is running away, that’s a clear indication that they are not interested in conflict

[Max™]

The cop who shot him apparently knew the stolen taser had been fired twice, and he's being charged with felony murder.

Consider me goddamn fucking gobsmacked that *checks notes* Atlanta of all places is apparently trying to be on the ball here about their cops murdering people.

So no, in fact he was not a threat, he was completely unthreatening, the only thing he could do with that taser was activate the light, which he did, but I guess intent to dazzle is enough to murder someone... GOD SAVE LADY GAGA!