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[SalmonGod]

Then, just look at this misleading section.  (For one thing, the comparison in the sentence oddly conflates "fleeing arrest" with "fleeing or resisting".  Resisting arrest can include assaulting the officer.):

It can also include things like reflexively trying to move hands in front of face while receiving a beating, or being unable to comply with a command because of disability... 

Have you seriously not seen any footage of police beating a person, and then claiming that the beating went on as long as it did because they kept resisting?  Because if not, it's hard for me to believe that you've paid much attention to this issue at all...

[Morrigi]

I gotta disagree. If Michael Brown had been white he'd be likely to be alive today.

I entirely disagree with that. I'm white. If I robbed a store, assaulted a cop in his car, and went for his gun, I would absolutely expect to be dead

[Rolan7]

Same, but arguing about hypotheticals like that is unlikely to work out well.

[Frumple]

... if brown had been white, he almost certainly wouldn't have been aggressively approached by a cop for jaywalking to begin with, triggering the rest of the mess. It's also worth noting that the only other right-there testimony (Johnson) has wilson assaulting brown, including dragging the guy part way into the car himself.

Turning it around, I somehow doubt if he'd been white, brown would have been almost ran over for jaywalking, attacked, and then later shot after a short struggle, after fleeing and then trying to surrender.

Of course, maybe if we'd have had a trial we'd actually end up figuring out what the hell actually happened (doubtful, considering what a shit-poor job the prosecution did during the grand jury proceedings, but it's possible), but it's looking like that's not on the table anymore

[Morrigi]

If I were walking in the middle of the street, I would entirely expect a cop to tell me to get out of the damn street and I'd do it, because walking in the middle of the street is an invitation to get run over.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[alway]

Yep. If only he hadn't been doing things which could get him killed.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/25-things-black-people-shouldnt-do-around-cops.html

Don't play in the park with toy guns and maybe they won't kill you. Don't ask for help after a car accident and maybe they won't kill you. Don't wear a hoodie and maybe they won't kill you. Don't cosplay with a toy sword and maybe they won't kill you. Don't shop at Walmart and maybe they won't kill you. Don't take the BART and maybe they won't kill you. Don't ride your bike and maybe they won't kill you. Don't reach for your cell phone and maybe they won't kill you. Don't go to your friend's birthday party and maybe they won't kill you. Don't sit on your front stoop and maybe they won't kill you. Don't "startle" them and maybe they won't kill you. Don't "look around suspiciously" and maybe they won't kill you. Don't walk on a bridge with your family and maybe they won't kill you. Don't play "cops and robbers" with your buddies and maybe they won't kill you. Don't work in a warehouse repairing instruments and maybe they won't kill you. Don't stand in your grandma's bathroom and maybe they won't kill you. Don't pray with your daughters in public and maybe they won't kill you. Don't go to your bachelor party and maybe they won't kill you. Don't have an ex boyfriend who might be a suspect and maybe they won't kill you. Don't call for medical help for your sister and maybe they won't kill her. Don't hang out in the park with your friends and maybe they won't kill you. Don't get a flat tire and maybe they won't kill you. Don't park in a fire lane and maybe they won't kill you. Don't reach for your wallet and maybe they won't kill you. Don't let your medical alert device go off and maybe they won't kill you

[Morrigi]

Frumple was probably talking about the part right after that, where he pulled his car right up to them aggressively enough that his tires screeched or something. The noise drew the attention of a good number of the witnesses.

Is it impossible that he just didn't notice them in the road until he was so close that he had to slam on the brakes?

[Frumple]

Considering the initial communication happened before the close approach? Yeah. Pretty impossible.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Rolan7]

Yep. If only he hadn't been doing things which could get him killed.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/25-things-black-people-shouldnt-do-around-cops.html

Don't play in the park with toy guns and maybe they won't kill you. Don't ask for help after a car accident and maybe they won't kill you. Don't wear a hoodie and maybe they won't kill you. Don't cosplay with a toy sword and maybe they won't kill you. Don't shop at Walmart and maybe they won't kill you. Don't take the BART and maybe they won't kill you. Don't ride your bike and maybe they won't kill you. Don't reach for your cell phone and maybe they won't kill you. Don't go to your friend's birthday party and maybe they won't kill you. Don't sit on your front stoop and maybe they won't kill you. Don't "startle" them and maybe they won't kill you. Don't "look around suspiciously" and maybe they won't kill you. Don't walk on a bridge with your family and maybe they won't kill you. Don't play "cops and robbers" with your buddies and maybe they won't kill you. Don't work in a warehouse repairing instruments and maybe they won't kill you. Don't stand in your grandma's bathroom and maybe they won't kill you. Don't pray with your daughters in public and maybe they won't kill you. Don't go to your bachelor party and maybe they won't kill you. Don't have an ex boyfriend who might be a suspect and maybe they won't kill you. Don't call for medical help for your sister and maybe they won't kill her. Don't hang out in the park with your friends and maybe they won't kill you. Don't get a flat tire and maybe they won't kill you. Don't park in a fire lane and maybe they won't kill you. Don't reach for your wallet and maybe they won't kill you. Don't let your medical alert device go off and maybe they won't kill you

Not listed, what Brown got killed for - attacking a cop and trying to steal his gun.  If a cop pulled up to me and I did that, I would not be outraged if I got shot.

That's a nice list of things people shouldn't die for.  If they happened, maybe we should talk about clear-cut cases like them, instead of arguing over Brown?

[SalmonGod]

If I were walking in the middle of the street, I would entirely expect a cop to tell me to get out of the damn street and I'd do it, because walking in the middle of the street is an invitation to get run over.

Highly dependent on the area... I've been to St Louis.  There are large areas around the city where cars do not dominate the streets.  There's not much traffic, and lots of people walking.  I saw people walking in the street very commonly, and never saw anyone acting as an obstacle to traffic.  Hell, I was one of them here and there.  Most businesses do not have parking lots and most residences don't have driveways.  Everything is very crowded together.  You find some open spot on the side of the road somewhere to park and expect to walk a few blocks.  And most of the sidewalks are very broken down.  This is how it was most everywhere outside of downtown and a block from any major road.

Not listed, what Brown got killed for - attacking a cop and trying to steal his gun.  If a cop pulled up to me and I did that, I would not be outraged if I got shot.

I think it's wrong of you to state this as if it's established fact.

[smirk]

Yep. If only he hadn't been doing things which could get him killed.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/25-things-black-people-shouldnt-do-around-cops.html

Don't play in the park with toy guns and maybe they won't kill you. Don't ask for help after a car accident and maybe they won't kill you. Don't wear a hoodie and maybe they won't kill you. Don't cosplay with a toy sword and maybe they won't kill you. Don't shop at Walmart and maybe they won't kill you. Don't take the BART and maybe they won't kill you. Don't ride your bike and maybe they won't kill you. Don't reach for your cell phone and maybe they won't kill you. Don't go to your friend's birthday party and maybe they won't kill you. Don't sit on your front stoop and maybe they won't kill you. Don't "startle" them and maybe they won't kill you. Don't "look around suspiciously" and maybe they won't kill you. Don't walk on a bridge with your family and maybe they won't kill you. Don't play "cops and robbers" with your buddies and maybe they won't kill you. Don't work in a warehouse repairing instruments and maybe they won't kill you. Don't stand in your grandma's bathroom and maybe they won't kill you. Don't pray with your daughters in public and maybe they won't kill you. Don't go to your bachelor party and maybe they won't kill you. Don't have an ex boyfriend who might be a suspect and maybe they won't kill you. Don't call for medical help for your sister and maybe they won't kill her. Don't hang out in the park with your friends and maybe they won't kill you. Don't get a flat tire and maybe they won't kill you. Don't park in a fire lane and maybe they won't kill you. Don't reach for your wallet and maybe they won't kill you. Don't let your medical alert device go off and maybe they won't kill you

Not listed, what Brown got killed for - attacking a cop and trying to steal his gun.  If a cop pulled up to me and I did that, I would not be outraged if I got shot.

That's a nice list of things people shouldn't die for.  If they happened, maybe we should talk about clear-cut cases like them, instead of arguing over Brown?

All of those happened. Follow the link; the article has links for every single one.

And I'm still not convinced Brown attacked Wilson. If a yelling cop screetched to a halt next to me and grabbed at my shirt-front, I'd probably panic and flail to get away too.

[Rolan7]

Except that the gun went off twice during that struggle.  One of them went for the gun.  Why would Wilson have pulled directly up to Brown, started a grapple, pulled his gun, and missed twice?

[SalmonGod]

Are you seriously asking how Wilson could have failed to shoot Brown while they were grappling?  And Brown's blood was found inside the car and on the gun.