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[Frumple]

The actual testimonies are limited to what each person remembers themself, not what other people at the scene told them.  No matter how much sense it made at the time.

... this is an explicitly untrue statement. Part of the problem with some of the testimonies is precisely that the "witness" in question wasn't even in bloody sight of the incident and were in fact reporting what others said, or what they just invented whole-cloth. Admitted to inventing whole-cloth, during the process of the grand jury prosecution massively fucking up their job by playing half-assed defense.

[Rolan7]

I meant the list of testimonies I linked:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/26/1347781/-Ferguson-what-the-witnesses-said

Which appear to all be firsthand accounts.  As opposed to what people reported to the media, which was a mix of what they saw with what other people told them.

[smjjames]

The actual testimonies are limited to what each person remembers themself, not what other people at the scene told them.  No matter how much sense it made at the time.

... this is an explicitly untrue statement. Part of the problem with some of the testimonies is precisely that the "witness" in question wasn't even in bloody sight of the incident and were in fact reporting what others said, or what they just invented whole-cloth. Admitted to inventing whole-cloth, during the process of the grand jury prosecution massively fucking up their job by playing half-assed defense.

Wouldn't a full trial eliminate those via cross-examination? Then again it might just make things more confusing, no idea.

[Frumple]

... well, a full trial would have actually had cross-examination, instead of a prosecution shitting in its own pool by doing the defense's job. May be leaning towards hyperbole a bit here, because I'm rather tired, but. Yeah. What I've been seeing elsewhere is that a very notable amount of legal professionals are looking at the information released regarding the grand jury proceedings and basically just going WTF.

And R, you could scroll down a bit to the "Witness Reliability" part and then read through it.

[Leafsnail]

Really? Bay12 is jumping on the Eric Garner bandwagon? Have any of you even seen the video? Y'all are talking like they beat him senseless with a baseball bat and strung him up with garrote wire. In the video, this was a relatively gentle takedown. He was restrained and held to the ground, then cuffed. He was not beaten, he was not slammed into the pavement, he was not shot. The only reason the chokehold was dangerous was because he had a completely unrelated medical condition.

Or if you want the factual version, Garner was grabbed by the throat, and at one point the officer clearly yanks him backwards (see 1:24 of the video).  I'm not at all surprised that someone's windpipe could be crushed by an action like that, but even if that were unusual the Eggshell Skull Principle means the officer is still responsible.  This was in response to a man who was being slightly uncooperative, but not violent or threatening in any way.

As for the chokehold itself, it is against department policy, but is not against the law. The two officers deemed responsible have had their guns taken away and put behind a desk. But since chokeholds are not illegal in and of themselves, and they were acting in the capacity of a police officer subduing a belligerent criminal, there is no grounds for criminal prosecution.

Killing people for no reason is actually illegal

As for the "I can't breathe!" statements, criminals do that all the time, regardless of weather or not there was actual injury, because they hate the cops and just want to stir up more shit. It might have made some sort of case if this was a violent takedown, but it very clearly wasn't.

lol

[smeeprocket]

From now on police should just ignore pleas of not being able to breath or something being broken or someone dying. First off, they don't get in trouble if someone dies, and second, they are all just criminals making shit up.

Let's just make a pact to believe anything the police say and never question them, because we are going to have to seriously suspend our disbelief to continue to think these are just isolated incidences and the mass murder of black people is all justified.

[TamerVirus]

Guess what?

It happened again

This time in Phoenix

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Bohandas]

The main problem here isn't racism, the bigger problem is the fact that the police routinely get away with shit that even businessmen and Hollywood celebrities would be hard-pressed to weasel their way out of punishment for.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[TheDarkStar]

Right, and the fact that it's 21 times more likely to happen to you if you're black is just a minor side issue.

The comments on that point out some statistical problems with the large number, but it still ends up being a few times more likely if you are black.

Relevant Onion article.

[SalmonGod]

I've been in at least one situation with police where I'm pretty sure I would have been subject to some brutal treatment if I wasn't white.

I also have a black co-worker who has witnessed severe racism first-hand with my local police.
When her car broke down, a cop showed up and told her she had ten minutes to get it moved before he would have it towed (and I think he threatened some sort of other penalty, but I don't remember what it was).  She pleaded that her husband was on his way and just to wait until he got there.  He basically said he didn't care and watched as she cried in her car until her husband showed up.  Luckily, her white husband showed up within 10 minutes.  Immediately, the officer's attitude completely reversed, and he started offering help.

[Bohandas]

Right, and the fact that it's 21 times more likely to happen to you if you're black is just a minor side issue.

Are you trying to sarcastically imply that it would be OK for them to get away with this stuff as long as all races were brutalized equally?

[scriver]

Right, and the fact that it's 21 times more likely to happen to you if you're black is just a minor side issue.

Are you trying to sarcastically imply that it would be OK for them to get away with this stuff as long as all races were brutalized equally?

No. He's not.

[smjjames]

I've been in at least one situation with police where I'm pretty sure I would have been subject to some brutal treatment if I wasn't white.

I also have a black co-worker who has witnessed severe racism first-hand with my local police.
When her car broke down, a cop showed up and told her she had ten minutes to get it moved before he would have it towed (and I think he threatened some sort of other penalty, but I don't remember what it was).  She pleaded that her husband was on his way and just to wait until he got there.  He basically said he didn't care and watched as she cried in her car until her husband showed up.  Luckily, her white husband showed up within 10 minutes.  Immediately, the officer's attitude completely reversed, and he started offering help.

Yeesh.

It's no secret that racism is still pretty rampant, although we as Americans would definetly like to believe otherwise.

Also, on CNN, one commentator or whatever said that compared to Apartheid South Africa, the incarceration rate is higher, and the pay difference is greater. I don't have the data to back that up, but if we really are worse than Apartheid South Africa, then dang, we suck.