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[SkeletusAurelius]

Hey Flow, do you think you could add a feature a friend of mine thought up of?

"You should suggest that as a feature, being able to give a Marine up to two "long" weapons (read: not pistols) and toggle between them during battles. But since it's not standard practice, it could draw suspicion from the Inquisition."

[Tack]

In the current chapter master they already can and do, and it's not suspicious because I'm pretty sure the codex astartes doesn't tell you which guns you're allowed to equip.

[SkeletusAurelius]

I think he means an additional weapon on top of that so infantry can toggle back and forth
Like Missile Launcher, Pistol, then a Bolter he can switch to.

[puke]

it's not suspicious because I'm pretty sure the codex astartes doesn't tell you which guns you're allowed to equip.

It totally does. 

Not only does it dictate what weapons, but also how many of what type per squad and how to divide squads by size.

Some extremely strict adherents to the codex would consider the TO&E of the Space Wolves to be heretical.

I feel like deciding exactly how much to violate the coded should be part of the balancing act of running your chapter.  You can decide exactly how much extra ass you want to kick (dual wield autocannons for everyone) but you risk corruption at various levels. 

Perhaps too much power for any unit risks individual marine hubris and corruption, to much power for the chapter risks corruption at the command level, and any/all risk various levels of of attention from the inquisition -- which is possibly the least of your worries as they may be placated just by seeing that you are kicking ass for the Emperor.

[Flow]

it's not suspicious because I'm pretty sure the codex astartes doesn't tell you which guns you're allowed to equip.

It totally does. 

Not only does it dictate what weapons, but also how many of what type per squad and how to divide squads by size.

Some extremely strict adherents to the codex would consider the TO&E of the Space Wolves to be heretical.

I feel like deciding exactly how much to violate the coded should be part of the balancing act of running your chapter.  You can decide exactly how much extra ass you want to kick (dual wield autocannons for everyone) but you risk corruption at various levels. 

Perhaps too much power for any unit risks individual marine hubris and corruption, to much power for the chapter risks corruption at the command level, and any/all risk various levels of of attention from the inquisition -- which is possibly the least of your worries as they may be placated just by seeing that you are kicking ass for the Emperor.

To an extent this is a planned feature. Haven't workedo tu the precise details yet, but Insanity and Insurrection (Warp-taint and Corruption, I guess?) are going to be core mechanics of the game that I think could easily be translated across multiple genres. So as you say, having one squad that contains all of your most experienced, well-equipped and powerful soldiers would be a prime source of Insurrection (Corruption) growing amidst your ranks.

I'm pretty excited for implementing actual gameplay, getting closer and closer each week. These discussions and suggestions are really helpful for getting ideas flowing and concepts forming. Maybe I should start a new design doc somewhere...

[Golym]

But there is a problem here because not following the Codex Astartes is not necessarily heresy, but it should draw the Inquisition attention and even get them to hate you just a *bit* more.

I think Insanity and Insurrection (Warp-taint and Corruption) could come from different sources like fighting antagonist sources and so on. And of course the player should have ways to counter the possible warp-taint with chaplains and psykers especially when dealing with the new units like scouts since they are more prone to heresy, it would be interesting that if left unchecked even the most ancient warriors in your chapter could fall to corruption and start to corrupt the chapter from the inside out.

[puke]

I think Insanity and Insurrection (Warp-taint and Corruption) could come from different sources

Agreed.

But also:  There is a William King story in the old Deathwing expansion for the original Space Hulk.  I know lots of people don't like King's writing for whatever reason, but this is a really great little bit of fiction, regardless.

At one point, members of Deathwing are recounting historical struggles and one of them is talking about a conflict with traitor legions.  He speculates on -- to paraphrase -- why good marines go bad.

What he comes up with are a series of small steps, involving loyalty to chapter and chaptermaster.  a cascade of little things going wrong to eventually lead to the path of corruption.

There is no direct temptation by the Ruinous Powers, no lure of warp tainted artifacts, no close brushes with daemons leaving marks on mens mind... Just a series of small deviations from the strict, stoic, aesthetic strictures of the Astartes.

So, I guess I'd like to see something subtle being an avenue for ruin.  Not just which daemons you encounter or if you fail to destroy the artifacts quickly enough.

I'd like to outfit my chapter like some monstrosity a spacewolf sired on an ironhand, cyborged out and loaded with heavy weapons, stuffing recruits into dreadnought suits as soon as their progenoid glands grow in.  And I'd like there to be consequences, needing to kick enough ass to keep the Inquisition and High Lords assured that we are loyal.  Constantly struggling against the hubris of individual marines to whom I have given too much power...

[SkeletusAurelius]

Will we be able to ally with xenos? Not that i care about the idea, but you might attract some players with pro-tau Space Marines, or maybe ally with Eldar, etc etc.

[Flow]

I think Insanity and Insurrection (Warp-taint and Corruption) could come from different sources

Agreed.

But also:  There is a William King story in the old Deathwing expansion for the original Space Hulk.  I know lots of people don't like King's writing for whatever reason, but this is a really great little bit of fiction, regardless.

At one point, members of Deathwing are recounting historical struggles and one of them is talking about a conflict with traitor legions.  He speculates on -- to paraphrase -- why good marines go bad.

What he comes up with are a series of small steps, involving loyalty to chapter and chaptermaster.  a cascade of little things going wrong to eventually lead to the path of corruption.

There is no direct temptation by the Ruinous Powers, no lure of warp tainted artifacts, no close brushes with daemons leaving marks on mens mind... Just a series of small deviations from the strict, stoic, aesthetic strictures of the Astartes.

So, I guess I'd like to see something subtle being an avenue for ruin.  Not just which daemons you encounter or if you fail to destroy the artifacts quickly enough.

I'd like to outfit my chapter like some monstrosity a spacewolf sired on an ironhand, cyborged out and loaded with heavy weapons, stuffing recruits into dreadnought suits as soon as their progenoid glands grow in.  And I'd like there to be consequences, needing to kick enough ass to keep the Inquisition and High Lords assured that we are loyal.  Constantly struggling against the hubris of individual marines to whom I have given too much power...

I should probably clarify - Corruption and Insurrections are two vastly different things and will be handled independently. Corruption will represent the negative aspects of whatever the magic of the setting is - for 40k this is obviously the warp and chaos' influence. Insurrection will essentially represent insubordination, the breakdown of command structure and ultimately rebellion.

In 40k these are obviously quite closely linked - chapters that rebel or break command structure also tend to fall to chaos as far as I'm aware, but they do not necessarily have to be linked. For instance, an event for the Chapter Master mdo might well give both insurrection and corruption to your commanders or a specific unit or whatever, but another mod might not interact with the corruption mechanics at all, or highly priorise it over insurrection, etc.

@Xenos question - The current vaguely defined diplomacy template in my head will involve starting reputation, reputational modifiers (so playing a Heresy mod will mean higher multipliers with chaos factions vs imperial ones, playing CM will give multipliers for imperial guard, inquisition, etc - but also finer control so they grey knights might have higher multiplier with inquisition than space wolves) and almost certainly a wide array of other stats notably including whether the faction is interactable at all (think tyranids / sea monsters for pirate mod / etc).

This will all ultimately come down to the diplomacy and events scripting system, which as everything else I intend to make into plain text files loaded at time of play. So you might have the exact same faction setup and have a heresy mod where you start as friends with chaos and get missions from them, or a tyranid mod where you can't interact with anyone ever, etc.

The limit, ultimately is people's imagination, willingness to mod and art assets.

Speaking of art assets, the new game buttons look ridiculously good and I'm getting pumped up for Sunday's release. Hoping I can get regiment creation worked in with a proper interface from the art guy (who is amazing <3)

[LordBaal]

Well, Tyranids do are interactable, only with fire, but they are.

Also, in all seriousness Flow, if you can contact this guy: http://www.moddb.com/members/eranthis
You can see his work here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/eranthis-project

I'm pretty sure he could help with some sprites at least. He has tons of work already done for DoW, maybe some of that stuff can be put to use (icons at least). If not, maybe he could do something for this game.

[Flow]

Could someone do me a favor and collate a selection of the "big name chapters" and clear images of their heraldry/icon? Preferably also mottos of the chapter but im unsure if they all have one.

[SkeletusAurelius]

I'll could send stuff your way tomorrow if you could wait.

[Flow]

I'll could send stuff your way tomorrow if you could wait.

Yep, tomorrows fine too ill check out that artist guy after work today as well.

Guardsman111 has very kindly sent me his shaded images and might be up for doing more he says, so the art in the mod is coming along great.

[Tack]

Spoiler: So asked, so given (click to show/hide)

Did you one better and added their current leaders.


Founding Legions (Auto-include)

Dark Angels
Azrael

"Repent, For tomorrow you Die"
"For the Lion!"
White Scars
Jubal Khan

"For the Khan and for the Emperor"
Space Wolves
CM(?Really CM?) Logan Grimnar

"For Russ and the Allfather"
Imperial Fists
CM Vorn Hagan
(More Important- 1st Comp. Cap. Darnath Lysander)

"Primarch-Progenitor, to your glory and the glory of him on earth"
Blood Angels
CM Dante

"By the blood of Sanguius"
"For the Emperor and Sanguinus"
Iron Hands
(Acting Warleader) Iron Father Cardan Stronos

"Flesh is Weak!"
Ultramarines
CM Marneus Calgar

"Courage and Honor"
"We March For Macragge"
Salamanders
CM Tu'Shan Shakur

"Into the Fires of Battle; Unto the Anvil of War"
"For the Emperor and His People"
Raven Guard
Acting-CM Kayvaan Shrike

"Victorus Aut Mortis (Victory or death)

Not first-founding but fairly big-ticket

Blood Ravens
CM Gabriel Angelos

"Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well"
"None Shall Find Us Wanting"
Crimson Fists
CM Pedro Cantor

Chaplain: "There is only the Emperor | Reply: "He is our Shield and Protector"
Black Templars
High Marshall Helbrecht

"No Pity, No Remorse, No Fear"

Couple of broken links but eh cbf.
Cross-referenced them between 1d4chan, Lexi and W40kpedia.

[nenjin]

Small addendum:

The Blood Angels motto is "For the Emperor and Sanguinius. DEATH DEATH DEATH!"