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[Retropunch]

Noted on the weird recruiting behavior people are seeing.

Hypothetically, let's say that there are five types of feast ranging from kind of humble up to something lavish and over the top (i.e. Roman feasts).  What sort of dishes and appetizers would you expect each of these five stages to have?  I ask because I'm terrible where it comes to food and not familiar with any 40k ones other than grox.

As Space Marines can gain memories of what they eat through the 'Omophagea' they have dishes that stimulate that. Obviously certain chapters do that more, but it's cannon that all do as a sort of recreation.

Duke, have you read the book 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson? It's got a lot on that sort of thing and the day to day life of the chapter (and festivities/feasts/whatever). From talking to the guys at the Games Workshop HQ (quite a number of years back now!) this was seen as the one book that was treated as 'uber-cannon' in terms of Space Marines.

Whilst I'm never one to harp on about cannon and whatever, I'd really recommend everyone to read the book. It's probably one of the few Black Library books that I could really say is a great book, and it addresses a lot of what people are talking about here.

[DukeFluffy]

Duke, have you read the book 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson? It's got a lot on that sort of thing and the day to day life of the chapter (and festivities/feasts/whatever). From talking to the guys at the Games Workshop HQ (quite a number of years back now!) this was seen as the one book that was treated as 'uber-cannon' in terms of Space Marines.

Whilst I'm never one to harp on about cannon and whatever, I'd really recommend everyone to read the book. It's probably one of the few Black Library books that I could really say is a great book, and it addresses a lot of what people are talking about here.

I have not.  I'll be sure to add that to the reading list and get around to doing so at some point.

[umiman]

Noted on the weird recruiting behavior people are seeing.

Hypothetically, let's say that there are five types of feast ranging from kind of humble up to something lavish and over the top (i.e. Roman feasts).  What sort of dishes and appetizers would you expect each of these five stages to have?  I ask because I'm terrible where it comes to food and not familiar with any 40k ones other than grox.

Duke, have you read the book 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson? It's got a lot on that sort of thing and the day to day life of the chapter (and festivities/feasts/whatever). From talking to the guys at the Games Workshop HQ (quite a number of years back now!) this was seen as the one book that was treated as 'uber-cannon' in terms of Space Marines.

Whilst I'm never one to harp on about cannon and whatever, I'd really recommend everyone to read the book. It's probably one of the few Black Library books that I could really say is a great book, and it addresses a lot of what people are talking about here.

Is that the one about the three punks that get roped into the space marines? And there was a part where they ate the brains of a titan pilot to learn how to use it?

I've only ever read one single W40K book and it was that one. I loved it.

[ZebioLizard2]

Noted on the weird recruiting behavior people are seeing.

Hypothetically, let's say that there are five types of feast ranging from kind of humble up to something lavish and over the top (i.e. Roman feasts).  What sort of dishes and appetizers would you expect each of these five stages to have?  I ask because I'm terrible where it comes to food and not familiar with any 40k ones other than grox.

Duke, have you read the book 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson? It's got a lot on that sort of thing and the day to day life of the chapter (and festivities/feasts/whatever). From talking to the guys at the Games Workshop HQ (quite a number of years back now!) this was seen as the one book that was treated as 'uber-cannon' in terms of Space Marines.

Whilst I'm never one to harp on about cannon and whatever, I'd really recommend everyone to read the book. It's probably one of the few Black Library books that I could really say is a great book, and it addresses a lot of what people are talking about here.

Is that the one about the three punks that get roped into the space marines? And there was a part where they ate the brains of a titan pilot to learn how to use it?

I've only ever read one single W40K book and it was that one. I loved it.

At the same time, it seems like it has some pretty outdated concepts as it came out back in 1993, as eating a Princeps and getting the sudden will to tame a titan's Machine Spirit would be pretty odd nowadays.

[umiman]

There was some pretty bizarre stuff in that book. It was very interesting when I read it as a little kid.

Stuff like eating the feces of a disemboweled man. Or the pain glove.

The fact that I remember all this shit after 20+ years speaks to how interesting it was I think. This was around the same time I was reading stuff like Peter Rabbit because it was in the same children's section of the library. Looking back, I'm a bit curious why this was in the children's section... I must have been like 5 or 6 years old... I also remember a lot of sex ed books in that section too.

[ZebioLizard2]

Ah the Pain Glove, that's still a major component of the Imperial Fists with their practically self-sacrificing ways.

Also in the children's section really!? That Librarian must've failed to figure out what the book actually was if it was there..

[Retropunch]

That's the one!! I read it a long time back, and then again about 3-4 year ago, and it's still one of my top 10 sci-fi books (whilst other Black Library books would be hard pressed to be in my top 100). A lot of it still sticks with me, especially the space marine they find in the cellar.

It's also the one book that makes Space Marines seem at all real - most books just make them these sort of semi-invincible juggernauts that may as well be robots. I'd highly recommend it for anyone who's into sci-fi, but for Chapter Master fans it's absolute required reading.

[Kot]

Stuff like eating the feces of a disemboweled man. Or the pain glove.

Welcome to amazing world of Warhammer 40k, where Marines can track someone by eating their shit, spit acid to kill him and then get their memories by eating their brain. It was even better back in Rogue Trader when they could have actual secks, wore pink glasses, their bolters were huge AK-47s and they enjoyed cold beer.
Sadly, barely anything of this is mentioned in recent fluff because marines turned from space army of micro-Duke Nukems into "SPESS MAREENS WE ARE TEH EMPRAHS FUREEH". If it is better of worse, decide yourself.

[nenjin]

Somewhere betwixt the two would be nice. Early 40k was basically just early GWS guys begging, borrowing or stealing any idea they thought was cool at the time to build their universe. (Everything from Dune to Micheal Moorcock.) Which is why you got beer-drinking, seks-having demigods with AK47s for Space Marines. It took the universe a little while to mature its ideas, to achieve some narrative consistency, build its lore, yadda yadda....Today, there is just a teetering mountain of facts, ideas and histories to the IP that if often doesn't need to steal, or innovate, because it just keeps doing what it's been doing for decades now. And that gets a little boring.

I'm of two minds of space marines. On the one is that, yeah, early space marines were more believable in their space marine-ness. They were more flexible, the ideas more capable of surprising you. The other though, is that current space marine fiction allows them to have a concrete identity, crafted and shaped by themes that go beyond the color of the livery and the flavor of their mutations. Chapter histories can go deep because someone took the time to apply rigor to the ideas. I sometimes wonder if the seeds for the Heresy were planted in 40k by the idea of space marines unbound by anything.

At the end of the day, having read a decent amount of Rogue Trader and early 40k fiction.....I find I prefer where they ended more than where they started. While believably flawed (read as: human) space marines does make for better variety than we have now, it came with its own silliness and incongruities. The discipline that comes to define space marine ideology needed to be practiced at the conceptual level, too.

Otherwise we'd potentially have the Hello Kitty Chapter as canon, in some form. Pink glasses and what not.

[UXLZ]

Yes, but we'd also have the ALWAYS ANGRY ALL THE TIME marines. And they're awesome.

I just always feel sad with 40K. It actually has a really cool plot that could go a lot of interesting places, but it's stuck in cryostasis because of GW.

[Kot]

Somewhere betwixt the two would be nice. Early 40k was basically just early GWS guys begging, borrowing or stealing any idea they thought was cool at the time to build their universe. (Everything from Dune to Micheal Moorcock.) Which is why you got beer-drinking, seks-having demigods with AK47s for Space Marines. It took the universe a little while to mature its ideas, to achieve some narrative consistency, build its lore, yadda yadda....Today, there is just a teetering mountain of facts, ideas and histories to the IP that if often doesn't need to steal, or innovate, because it just keeps doing what it's been doing for decades now. And that gets a little boring.

I'm of two minds of space marines. On the one is that, yeah, early space marines were more believable in their space marine-ness. They were more flexible, the ideas more capable of surprising you. The other though, is that current space marine fiction allows them to have a concrete identity, crafted and shaped by themes that go beyond the color of the livery and the flavor of their mutations. Chapter histories can go deep because someone took the time to apply rigor to the ideas. I sometimes wonder if the seeds for the Heresy were planted in 40k by the idea of space marines unbound by anything.

At the end of the day, having read a decent amount of Rogue Trader and early 40k fiction.....I find I prefer where they ended more than where they started. While believably flawed (read as: human) space marines does make for better variety than we have now, it came with its own silliness and incongruities. The discipline that comes to define space marine ideology needed to be practiced at the conceptual level, too.

Otherwise we'd potentially have the Hello Kitty Chapter as canon, in some form. Pink glasses and what not.

Yeah, even if Rogue Trader marines are cool, I too find them to be too silly (after all, it was 80s, disco marines (EMPEROR PROTECT, MY EYESSS), etcetera) Your regular portrayal of new marines is too boring (blame Ultrasmurfs), but, by the Throne, we do have some nice marines, like Space Mongolians, Space Vikings with furry fetish, Space Reasonable Marines, Space Zulus (Celestial Loins), Space Whatever really, even the Bloody Magpies and Monk Marines (Black Templars) are pretty cool if you like their fixation.
But, still, we all know that Imperial Guard is just awesomer.

I just always feel sad with 40K. It actually has a really cool plot that could go a lot of interesting places, but it's stuck in cryostasis because of GW.

Yes, but we'd also have the ALWAYS ANGRY ALL THE TIME marines. And they're awesome.

I just always feel sad with 40K. It actually has a really cool plot that could go a lot of interesting places, but it's stuck in cryostasis because of GW.

No.
Never.
Advancing the storyline is something that should NOT happen in Warhammer 40k. The whole thing was engineered to be a constant stalemate, just like FB, and if they try to change it, RAEG ensues, whole universe is broken and GW gets it's wallet kicked. FB "End Times" (YOU DID WHAT YOU REMOVED KISLEV WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT, IT WAS THE BEST FACTION, ARRRGHHH) just proves this.

Looking back, I'm a bit curious why this was in the children's section... I must have been like 5 or 6 years old... I also remember a lot of sex ed books in that section too.

Librarian did his duty to help raise future generations of Terra defenders, giving approved books to chilren for them to learn that Space Marines are awesome and how they should spread Humanity without causing Slanneshi deamons to show up.

[MrRoboto75]

I just always feel sad with 40K. It actually has a really cool plot that could go a lot of interesting places, but it's stuck in cryostasis because of GW.

If only the price of entry didn't double every year

[UXLZ]

Er, yes, it's something that SHOULD happen in 40k. Advancing the plot doesn't mean the end of the series, or the big stalemate that's going on. GW just needs to find some more fluff writers who aren't brain-damaged.

[Mech#4]

Well, the plot is static so you can run campaigns that cover possible important battles. Defence of Mars, Terra or where ever else. X-Com tabletop style. That guardsmen who successfully kills a chaos marine? Next battle you could paint up a sergeant to represent his promotion, give him a name and his own squad to command. If later he's killed, paint his name onto the battalion banner with a kill count.

[nenjin]

(after all, it was 80s, disco marines (EMPEROR PROTECT, MY EYESSS), etcetera)

Getting down, in HIS name.