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[nenjin]

-double post-

[Rolan7]

While deadly arena fights do definitely sound more chaos than loyalist, I'm kinda surprised they aren't a thing for marines.  I get the impression that you kinda need to have a constant stream of casualties to produce geneseed, and honorable combat seems like a good way to do that safely.

On the other hand there are those geneseed-tank things, which saves on training and equipment costs.  Not glorious though.

Also I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm a casual WH40k fan who hasn't even tried this game yet.  I just enjoy reading the thread and trying to imagine what the game's like

[nenjin]

While deadly arena fights do definitely sound more chaos than loyalist, I'm kinda surprised they aren't a thing for marines.  I get the impression that you kinda need to have a constant stream of casualties to produce geneseed, and honorable combat seems like a good way to do that safely.

Couple things:

1. Space Marines do have feels you know. They form bonds of friendship and brotherhood (brotherhood being essential to their mission.) Their mandate is to die fighting against the enemies of the Emperor, if they must. Not to die fighting each other. So while it's easy to assume they're automatons, they do have feelings and opinions and killing their own would lead to a pretty poisonous environment, unless their chapter outlook is seriously warped.

2. Each Marine can represent hundreds of years of battle experience and wisdom. A newly minted Space Marine, while by no means harmless and having dozens and dozens of years of training and combat experience, is still less than a veteran. Space Marines only get more dangerous with age.

3. Training new Space Marines, like I said above, is a pretty time intensive investment. Only a crazy chapter would jeopardize their strength for a pastime like that. I can see it under pretty rigorously controlled, and ritualistic, circumstances though.

4. Space Marines are usually pretty practical, and analytical, maybe even to a fault. You have to go renegade or Chaos, and get away from the constant DO YOUR DUTY mantras of the Space Marines to lose that mindset. As I said, to waste a veteran marine in bloodsport is very impractical.

5. The Inquisition tends to look out for signs of this kind of lack of discipline as an indication of slipping toward Chaos. For example, this kind of Deathmatch is entirely in keeping with the Worldeaters, what with Angron's back story of being from a gladiator world, them worshipping Khorne, and being homicidally violent with everyone, including each other. Spilling blood for Khorne is honestly their highest objective. Compare and contrast that to a loyalist chapter, whose highest objective is killing the enemies of the Emperor. Get the drift? The Codex Astartes models what the Imperium generally considers the ideal space marine, and is the rough measuring stick for what the Inquisition might use to judge a Chapter's deviance. I'm pretty sure an assumed tenet of the Codex Astartes is "Don't murder your fellow battle brothers, it makes it hard to fight a war." Then again, there's lots of stuff Chapters do that isn't mentioned or covered by the CA.

[UXLZ]

Also, the dude who wrote it said the CA was like the Pirate's Code anyway, as far as I remember. Ultrasmurfs just took it to an absurd level (with the religious fervor almost only someone from the 40K universe can muster) after he got incapacitated.

[Rabid_Cog]

For the Deathmatch I think you would be picking the opponent, not the level of spectating.

Deathmatch Opportunity:
1. Native Beast - A space marine (in full armour) fights a dangerous (for unarmored humans) beast with only a chainsword. Not really fair, but its more for honing reflexes and avoiding being struck.
2. Trial by Combat - A severe grievance between two Space Marines is handled through ritualistic combat to the death OR a crime by a marine is judged through ritual combat with another marine/Chaptermaster before the Emperor.
3. Challenge of Valor - Fully equipped marine is dropped in the middle of a group of angry Xenos. How long can he survive before he has to call in support? He might be able to be extracted safely, he might not. That's the risk.

[nenjin]

Also, the dude who wrote it said the CA was like the Pirate's Code anyway, as far as I remember. Ultrasmurfs just took it to an absurd level (with the religious fervor almost only someone from the 40K universe can muster) after he got incapacitated.

Well, no, it's pretty far and away from a pirate code. It's best practices, a SOP for Space Marines. That it makes a lot of good sense, about tactics, disciplines, force organization and a little bit of philosophy too, is why it's widely adopted. Roboute didn't write casual things, dude wrote treatises on stuff and things because he brain be so big.

[Majestic7]

Ultrasmurf treatise on How To Marine Right is a lot more fun if you think Uncle Rob was a bloody idiot. It would nicely explain why Imperials are getting constantly their butts kicked by everyone as well. Anyway, if Chapter Master disclaimer is that it is a work of parody as a weak shield against Evil Empires lawyers, maybe there should actually be some parody in the game.

[ZebioLizard2]

Ah, that's probably why ideas don't really come to me for it as quickly, it's pretty uncommon for Space Marine chapters to organize deadly combats among themselves. Matters of honor, personal rivalries and such aside, killing each other for sport is uh...definitely against the Codex Astartes. That level of wastefulness and callousness does seem better reserved for Chaos. I dunno though, maybe Space Wolves do some shit like that.

I thought this at first as well, but do remember that this would also represent other, odder and stranger second foundings as such.

Such as those Space Marines who practiced cannibalism in the name of the Emperor as worship, and as a result if you start practicing things like this if the inquisition catches wind without you managing to handle it. Even if the method is just simply ending certain nosey inquisitors. (Which they failed, and were declared renegade)

It was mentioned with said Cannibalistic chapter that there were Chapters that did worse then them, but that they eluded Inquisitorial view for longer. It could be said that you allowing the Chapter to fall down these renegade methods of doing such and would likely cause morale to rise/be hit with the various practices you would allow.

[Necroman21]

Nenjins suggestions seem to be awesome, but i'll drop my own for variety's sake.
Just to note im going to refer to corruption since i dont know how you will handle falling to the chaos, it can be loyalty hit or whatever for now.
Tournament:
Lethal (if toggled off almost all participants survive and gain a small xp boost and winner gains a medium xp boost. Also decreases corruption slightly. If toggled on only 1 marine survives, but gains a massive xp boost. Highly increases corruption.)
Outside spectators (Increase requisition from tributes brought by spectators and increases relations with the sector governor, also increases corruption due to pride. if toggled off decrease corruption, but no requisition increase)
Prize (If on you lose a chapter relic to the winner which will be locked to them, increases effects of outside spectators and xp gain to the winner and participants if they survive.)

Chapter Sermon:
Praise Primarch (If on marines gain medium boosts to melee skills and increases corruption due to pride. If off you praise the Emperor which gives a small boost to melee skills, but reduces corruption)
Blood sacrifices (If on you hunt down humans to use as sacrifices. Increases the boost to melee skills, but also increases corruption.)
Root Heresy (If on you kill marines you suspect of heresy, which reduces corruption and melee skill boosts. A few of you marines die.)

[Liber celi]

Triumphal March:
1. Attendance is Mandatory
    (Increases effect on planet's corruption (either way), may reduce local relations)
2. Full Honours to Allies
    (Less fame for the chapter, possibly improves Imperial relations)
3. Brandish Bloody Trophies
    (Increases effect on planet's corruption, worsens relevant Xeno relations, chance of corruption?)

[Retropunch]

Space marines DO have one on one honour fights (which are a bit like arena fights) - these were one on one battles although not to the death. If I remember, they attacked each other with some sort of blade and the first to leave a mark won. This was done to settle arguments or some sort of grievance.

I don't remember the specifics but this was definitely in the book 'Space Marine' by Ian Watson!

[DukeFluffy]

I think I'm on the right track now.  My IRC-based thinktank hasn't been as reliable as in the past, so it's refreshing being able to come here and get help.  Thanks for the assistance everyone.



Edit:
Hypothetically, let's say you slapped down a whole bunch of marines at a feast somewhere.  What are some random things a marine might choose to discuss or talk about with fellow battle brothers?

Here's some examples:

• if (turns<36) then FUTURE GLORIUS BATTLES
• if (turns>=36) then PAST GLORIUS BATTLES
• Presenting artifact weapon/gear to those nearby
• Praising their Jump Pack
• Praising their Bike
• if (ork WAAAGH and ork stars > 4) then concerned about Ork WAAAGH
• if (marines <=300) then concerned about chapter size
• Eagerness to battle

[Necroman21]

I'd love some fluffy stuff for your particular chapter or your founding chapter. For example if you are a salamander they might be talking about their newly crafted weapon or cloak made of drake skin while a couple ultramarines could be discussing their view on the codex or their most recent parade.

[Jimexmore]

Hypothetically, let's say you slapped down a whole bunch of marines at a feast somewhere.  What are some random things a marine might choose to discuss or talk about with fellow battle brothers?

Here's some examples:

• if (turns<36) then FUTURE GLORIUS BATTLES
• if (turns>=36) then PAST GLORIUS BATTLES
• Presenting artifact weapon/gear to those nearby
• Praising their Jump Pack
• Praising their Bike
• if (ork WAAAGH and ork stars > 4) then concerned about Ork WAAAGH
• if (marines <=300) then concerned about chapter size
• Eagerness to battle

I'd say maybe how eldar are bringing more stuff or how they claimed 5 ork heads from a battle, or that jones is acting strangely.

[Golym]

Edit:
Hypothetically, let's say you slapped down a whole bunch of marines at a feast somewhere.  What are some random things a marine might choose to discuss or talk about with fellow battle brothers?

Here's some examples:

• if (turns<36) then FUTURE GLORIUS BATTLES
• if (turns>=36) then PAST GLORIUS BATTLES
• Presenting artifact weapon/gear to those nearby
• Praising their Jump Pack
• Praising their Bike
• if (ork WAAAGH and ork stars > 4) then concerned about Ork WAAAGH
• if (marines <=300) then concerned about chapter size
• Eagerness to battle

Maybe comment about the Chapter relations with the factions in the system? Like being worried that the chapter master made a deal with the eldars? Also, going Renegade and having a Feast could engage in a battle between loyalist Battle Brothers and non-loyalists.

The

• if (marines <=300) then concerned about chapter size

needs to go to 400 or 350 because a chapter made with 1 STR and Sieged perk still have more than 300 marines.