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Author Topic: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!  (Read 810019 times)

Dorsidwarf

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1650 on: May 31, 2015, 10:24:54 am »

One strategy I like to do is right at the beginning of the game, spend all my req on vehicles, and just use them to spearhead anything really extreme
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UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1651 on: May 31, 2015, 10:20:41 pm »

If you aren't playing one of the Founding chapters (Which I don't like doing because it feels cheaty, fucking smurfs...) you should only have 500 REQ. That gives you... What, 15 Rhinos?
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Hetairos

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1652 on: June 01, 2015, 07:04:03 am »

Rhinos are 75 req not counting STC bonuses, aren't they? That's just 6 of them. Or 5 Whirlwinds, or 4 Predators.

Majestic7

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1653 on: June 01, 2015, 07:07:20 am »

Raiding is so overpowered vehicles have no point, really. Extreme enemies are best bombarded, then raided to death. I just leave all vehicles to defend the recruiting world, sans dreadnoughts.
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overlordjebus

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1654 on: June 01, 2015, 08:09:17 am »

Why does everyone keep saying Raids are OP? Do they not function as intended?
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a1s

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1655 on: June 01, 2015, 09:35:22 am »

jump into or out of the active gravity well of a planet or star is to invite disaster during warp translation. Tearing apart of ships and planets, and so forth.

Can you confirm this, while I write a letter to the Mechanicus? (We'll either get a reply Mechanicus, or the Inqusition. Thumbs crossed!) I think we can have this Only War business wrapped up in a couple of years now.
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1656 on: June 01, 2015, 09:37:27 am »

Don't worry. Seems like every other 40k novel I read, they state how dangerous it is to attempt, and then everyone does it anyways without real consequences.
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halosammy

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1657 on: June 01, 2015, 10:24:50 am »

If you aren't playing one of the Founding chapters (Which I don't like doing because it feels cheaty, fucking smurfs...) you should only have 500 REQ. That gives you... What, 15 Rhinos?

Look! Rhinos! RRRRRRHHHHIIIIIIINNNNNOOOSSSSS!
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Liber celi

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1658 on: June 01, 2015, 10:47:55 am »

Why does everyone keep saying Raids are OP? Do they not function as intended?
(Nota bene that I can only talk about the now outdated version since I can't play this on my own hardware :] )

Raids totally function as intented, I'd guess: They reduce enemy presence by 2 stages, you can only bring the infantery (and dreadnaught) part of your forces, but you also face a smaller portion of the enemy(by 1 stage, it was stated), and tactically battle starts much closer to the enemy lines. All that seems completely intented and reasonable.

The OP part comes into play when you compare them to regular Attacks: Those reduce the enemy presence by only 1... even though you will kill more enemies when victorious. You bring your vehicles, but you also face a bigger portion of the enemy. You also start further away from the enemy on the tactical scale.

Against a weak enemy, both are equally effective on a tactical level, making raids 2x as effective on a strategical level. Against a strong enemy, the vehicles may be worth battling the bigger enemy forces, but the way your troops were arranged (which now seems to be customizable! Duke rules. :D) that line of tanks was positioned so far in front of your troops (even before your dreadnaughts...) that a lot of the marines could not fire at the enemy for long (or at all) before they entered anti-tank melee, your assault marines kept sitting around doing absolutely nothing while your tanks were wittled away. Even assuming that is now fixed, the 2x bonus for raids is still worth the higher risk in that situation.
And if you're seriously outnumbered, and have good reasons not to bomb the enemy from orbit, Attack becomes actually worse than Raid, because the enemy will bring a whole lot more specialists, among them anti-tank specialists, that can wreck, like, 100 rhinos a turn... and other elite units that will wreck your precious marines. So facing a smaller army is 100% worth leaving your tanks home.

Unless maybe if you pack all the tanks and a few Space Marine Panzergrenadiere into a li'l fleet exclusively Attacking weakish xenos. That might actually be a fun strategy, but I doubt its usefulness.

Tl;dr: There is almost no situation where Attack is better than Raid, as long as the former only reduces enemy presence by 1

E: Cosmetics.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 10:50:15 am by Liber celi »
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snowdrifts

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1659 on: June 01, 2015, 04:04:01 pm »


Ah, and how do I get rid of demonic incursion? I kill everyone and the tag still is there on the planet, and the pop just dies.

Become buddies with the Inquisition, buy an Exterminatus. Equip Exterminatus on a (survivable) Marine. Attack, raid, doesn't matter so long as you win. Exterminatus gets planted, planet - and daemons - go bye-bye.
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DukeFluffy

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1660 on: June 02, 2015, 04:02:07 pm »

So if I understand correctly, Raids reduce enemy presence by 2 and have a far higher chance of melee due to starting closer to the enemy and also you can't use vehicles.
Duke, how about if we choose to defend, we can choose to team up with the local IG or PDF, and they are represented on the battle screen?
This is planned eventually.

I am willing to work with Duke, but ultimately it's up to him.
Chapter Master may get moved to Unity once/when I start learning it, but that will be a while from now, and is uncertain.  I'd rather not have people start crunching it over to Unity and then procrastinate learning the engine until it's caught up, or something terrible like that.  We'll see.

except that turns are not hours or even days.  Each turn is a full month, and marines should be able to insert into the hot glowing craters as soon as the macrobatteries stop firing. 

Heck, I expect default behavior for a Raid to be inserting WHILE the macrobatteries are firing, under cover of the guns.

If they have to wait a month for the planetary crust to resolidify enough to support an invasion, then bombardment casualties are too low.
Earlier in alpha you could Raid as many times as you wanted each turn, and this made battles over individual worlds feel a lot more like boring speedbumps rather than involved efforts.  There'll be improvements done in the future to make this even more the case, like allowing individual ships to Raid/Bombard/Attack and each planet having several fighting areas,

Hey Duke, any feels on when you're going to do more with your framework for music?

Also bug report [sic]

Also I totally dig the new loading screens, but I will miss Mechanichu making obeisances to the Machine God. The new formations screen is also damn near perfect.
I am going to plug in more music when I find more fitting songs, maybe allow some custom tracks for players to add their own, and fix some of the older music code.  Bug noted, may or may not be fixed.  Glad to hear that you like the new formations screen but what might you do to improve it?


0.6548

Major Changes:
More work is being done behind-the-scenes for the other Chaos Lord(s) and Daemon Artifacts.

Minor Changes:
Krumpalots has been removed from the Astartes name list.
Jump Packs should no longer vanish.
Formations should be correctly load/saveable now.
Inquisition Mission: Planet Recon now lists the correct planet target in the event log when accepted.
Ork Ship construction rate reduced from 25% chance to 15% chance.  The WAAAGH! bonus has been reduced to +10% from +15%.
Traitor Ship construction rate reduced from 25% chance to 20% chance.
Cheatcodes have been changed for June.

nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1661 on: June 02, 2015, 04:36:32 pm »

Quote
but what might you do to improve it?

Hrm....I suppose the layout could use a little work. It's entirely functional now, it could just be prettier I think. Perhaps including some contextual information (like display where a given unit in a rank's maximum attack range is.)
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

overlordjebus

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1662 on: June 03, 2015, 03:53:32 am »

So if I understand correctly, Raids reduce enemy presence by 2 and have a far higher chance of melee due to starting closer to the enemy and also you can't use vehicles.
Duke, how about if we choose to defend, we can choose to team up with the local IG or PDF, and they are represented on the battle screen?
This is planned eventually.

Woo, great news Duke.

0.6548

Major Changes:
More work is being done behind-the-scenes for the other Chaos Lord(s) and Daemon Artifacts.

Minor Changes:
Krumpalots has been removed from the Astartes name list.
Jump Packs should no longer vanish.
Formations should be correctly load/saveable now.
Inquisition Mission: Planet Recon now lists the correct planet target in the event log when accepted.
Ork Ship construction rate reduced from 25% chance to 15% chance.  The WAAAGH! bonus has been reduced to +10% from +15%.
Traitor Ship construction rate reduced from 25% chance to 20% chance.
Cheatcodes have been changed for June.

You go Duke!
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UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1663 on: June 03, 2015, 07:06:09 am »

Bug/QoL(?)

Clicking on "All Vehicles" then "Load" straight away ends up not showing any available ships. You have to click on and select (not deselect) an individual vehicle first as far as I can tell.
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Ahhh~ She looked into your eyes,
And saw what laid beneath,
Don't try to save yourself,
The circle is complete.

Golym

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1664 on: June 03, 2015, 02:53:00 pm »

Hey, Duke, nice to see the new update. I don't know if it is a bug but sometimes my ships stay stuck in star system and I won't be able to select any longer. I can deploy the troops on the planets but it is extremely annoying to lose a strike cruiser with the 1st group in it. Also, the fleet screen stop showing the battle barge in it after a few turns.

Thanks for the game.
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