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[Descan]

Cons are already out, my friend.

Also, technically speaking the Mandates were Christian held territory in the Middle East. Nominally secular states with a lot of christian citizens, in France and Britain.

Well, except Britain. Britain's head of state is the head of the Anglican church, after all.

[bobchaos]

As you can see I'm a bit out of touch with local news XD

Hopefully we'll go back to being nice guys on the international scene and start funding fundamental sciences again locally.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

While I agree that they would want the US neutralized, it's because it's a strong opponent and pretty universally hated by ISIS's target audience. They would have a hard time putting any religious spin on the conquest of the US. It's not exactly loaded with Muslim holy sites o.O I'd also think that if there was any way they could avoid getting in a fight with the US they would. No one want to pick a fight with the guy that can field more carriers than most of the rest of the world combined o.O That said, if you wanna play on the world stage, you gotta play with the superpower, no going around it. I think if they could defeat them in the field or home front (in some hypothetical scenario where they actually become a significant military threat capable of projecting power globally like most NATO countries), they would not attempt an invasion of the US mainland. Perhaps a few symbolic conquests of extraterritorial possessions. That said, successful conquerors usually don't stop just because they don't have a claim to the next land in line XD Historically they keep going until they reach the limit of their logistical/military capacities or get violently thrown back. Once you get powerful enough, generally speaking your goals and long term plans can be summarized as "maintain and/or expand power".

The USA is not the world. Western world =/= USA.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Guess my point is (and the point of my previous post) is people are allowing themselves to be terrified by people halfway across the world who really have a whole lot more to think about than actually causing them harm. US citizens (and other western countries too) are allowing terrible things to happen to them (like mass surveillance programs!) because they are scared of folks half a world away who don't really care that much about them.

For the rest of the Western world that is not Canada, they are not half way around the world, and they are an immediate concern for their armies care much about them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Israel is another business tho, they're sitting on half the Abrahamic holy sites, are also a strong and much hated opponent and they're geographically close and more threatening. If I was living anywhere close to Israel I might be a little bit worried, but then again I'd be sitting on top of one of the most impressive conventional weapon stash in the world and I'd have some powerful friends like the US. If ISIS wants to pick a straight up fight with Israel they need to start eating their bread crusts

Hence why they and Israel have not fought each other much. It is in neither group's immediate interests to do so.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regarding Rome, I'ma go ahead and guess it's further down the line, somewhere between Israel and the US. While they sorta have to do it (or at least say they'll do it) in order to maintain legitimacy as a Caliphate, it's a logistical and strategical nightmare. Rome is in Italy, and Italy has some pretty powerful (read "nuclear armed") friends. I'm not sure how the mass invasion of a NATO country would play out but it's a safe bet it would get ridiculously nasty for the aggressor. If nukes don't go flying they sure as hell will be prepped inside delivery system. They either have to fight through half the world navies in the Mediterranean or sneak in the army over land or air, in which case its difficult to sneak in the weapons along with it. I guess they could openly march through half the christian world but that sounds like a pretty terrible idea too XD

An attack =/= an invasion. Paris was easy as far as logistics went, there weren't any border checks to go by and it's easy to be a "refugee" nowadays.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 If ISIS wants to make a grab for Rome, they'll need to wait for a more suitable political climate, like the implosion of NATO o.O On the other hand, if Silvio Berlusconi was to take a bullet to the face during an invasion of Rome, I'm fair sure ISIS would instantly gain massive public support in Italy XD
Great analysis of their goals and current state. I was trying to keep it simple but clearly there's smart folks on these forums XD I also wasn't aware of the shift in strategy, but as you pointed out it probably won't do them much good, they're already on the decline. Good to know tho.

I wouldn't be so optimistic just yet, nor would I be pessimistic either. They're on the decline and will have to resort increasingly to more clandestine and frequent violence as time goes on until they're insignificant, but something must replace them. Whether that's another Islamist group remains to be seen!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As for Christianity getting wiped out of the middle east, can you honestly say you are surprised? AFAIK last time Christians held territory down there was the short lived crusader states of the late middle ages. I'm surprised they lasted that long. The Jewish people were in a pretty similar position until Israel, and if they hadn't been handed a state they would likely also be facing displacement or assimilation themselves. ISIS is just one more nail in the coffin :/

Yes I am surprised, there were so many of them and we are talking about Christianity here, the creed that could not be erased by the Roman, Ottoman and Chinese Empires. To see it erased in modern times is if not surprising, shocking.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, I'm not American, I'm one of their northern neighbors Once we get the conservatives out of office we can start putting blue berets on our soldiers again (as opposed to green helmets) and go back to being the friendly northern neighbors

R E M O V E  C A N U C K S

Cons are already out, my friend.
Also, technically speaking the Mandates were Christian held territory in the Middle East. Nominally secular states with a lot of christian citizens, in France and Britain.
Well, except Britain. Britain's head of state is the head of the Anglican church, after all.

The Mandates were divided into regions where certain religious groups were in the majority. There were Shia and Sunni majority areas, and notably regions like Lebanon where Christians were the majority. Now even in countries like Lebanon Christians are the minority; people forget there were Christian states in the middle east. Not anymore mind you, but the disappearance of them was quite recent.
Also by the time Britain took Iraq it was secular. WWI killed British Anglicanism and Queen Victoria was the last monarch to see her subjects as Christians - in the 19th century. Nowadays our Archbishops proudly declare that Britain is no longer Christian and the rise of Islam means the Church's seats in the House of Lords should be given to Imams, all the whilst sad Nigerians tut tut. I'm not surprised to see Christianity die in Western Europe, it's pretty much just finishing off an already fatally wounded civilization, the middle east is another affair entirely. It's a pity the death will be slow

[Descan]

paris was easy because it was european nationals who attacked so they didn't have to pose as refugees

unless that's been refuted in the intervening period of time

if it hasn't: the fuck man

[Loud Whispers]

If Canadians see nothing suspicious about Moroccans coming from Syria then this is all the more reason to  R E M O V E  C A N U C K  from premises

[Vilanat]

I wouldn't be so optimistic just yet, nor would I be pessimistic either. They're on the decline and will have to resort increasingly to more clandestine and frequent violence as time goes on until they're insignificant, but something must replace them. Whether that's another Islamist group remains to be seen!

We won't suddenly find New Zealand like politics after ISIS or Assad removal, that's for sure.

If ISIS gets "destroyed" by killing some of their obvious leaders and bombing their bases, it means all those combatants and other highly ranked leaders will only have to reprint the logo on their flags.

Hence why they and Israel have not fought each other much. It is in neither group's immediate interests to do so.

If the Jews join in on the party against ISIS, it will result in a civilian "aerial train" from all over the world into Syria and mass riots in European capitals raging about the land grabbing zionists invading the poor peace loving Syrians.

[Sheb]

Yeah, right, which is why you see riots all over the place at the Israeli airstrikes in Syria.

[Vilanat]

An airstrike once every half a year, against a Shia organization. yeah, good comparison.

[Loud Whispers]

We won't suddenly find New Zealand like politics after ISIS or Assad removal, that's for sure.
If ISIS gets "destroyed" by killing some of their obvious leaders and bombing their bases, it means all those combatants and other highly ranked leaders will only have to reprint the logo on their flags.

That and rebuild their chain of command; Al-Badgdhadi's successor will probably have to clean his leftovers

If the Jews join in on the party against ISIS, it will result in a civilian "aerial train" from all over the world into Syria and mass riots in European capitals raging about the land grabbing zionists invading the poor peace loving Syrians.

Let's face it, Israel can't go 5 seconds without pissing someone off. I also think Europeans will have more sour grapes considering these riots are in their capitals, not Tel Aviv. Heck, the whole thing with Israelis pushing for immigration from the people Israel itself expels as infiltrators is already causing sour grapes and riots in European capitals. A little consistency wouldn't be amiss.
Though speaking of Israeli air strikes and having laffs, one of Hezbollah's commanders just exploded alongside a five story building. Hezbollah are now sour grapes and saying Israel did it

R I O T
I O T R
O T R I
T R I O

[Vilanat]

That and rebuild their chain of command; Al-Badgdhadi's successor will probably have to clean his leftovers

Yeah, i agree, there would probably be some sort of power struggle for a new organization/salafists coalition leadership, but that would give Syria perhaps a few weeks of reduced casualties.

Let's face it, Israel can't go 5 seconds without pissing someone off. I also think Europeans will have more sour grapes considering these riots are in their capitals, not Tel Aviv. Heck, the whole thing with Israelis pushing for immigration from the people Israel itself expels as infiltrators is already causing sour grapes and riots in European capitals. A little consistency wouldn't be amiss.

Who Israel push for immigration and expels as infiltrators?

Though speaking of Israeli air strikes and having laffs, one of Hezbollah's commanders just exploded alongside a five story building. Hezbollah are now sour grapes and saying Israel did it

And Nasrallah thought its best to paint Israel's map with Iranian colors and piss some more Sunnis (palestinians) on the way.

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah, i agree, there would probably be some sort of power struggle for a new organization/salafists coalition leadership, but that would give Syria perhaps a few weeks of reduced casualties.

It is interesting - this question of killing Bagdhadi, and whether it will ultimately be beneficial. Bagdhadi himself rose to the top amidst a leadership struggle, and leadership struggles are great contests to leave the most qualified leader alive. Of course he's holding IS together and there are so many foreign nationals and factions within IS that their implosion would be most certain in the event of Bagdhadi getting bombed. Best case scenario is he gets killed, power struggle ensues and the most paranoid man takes charge of IS's successor. Queue endless self-purging as paranoid android tries to keep his new place as top dog.

Who Israel push for immigration and expels as infiltrators?

10 sec google search:
British Jews lay groundwork for influx of Syrian refugees
Unfazed by government policy, Reform, Liberal and Masorti Judaism streams jointly push for private sponsorship registry
That was released a few hours ago
All the whilst Israel built fuckhueg walls to keep out Arabs and Africans, just deported some more and are getting well good at deporting them

We will not allow Israel to be submerged by a wave of illegal migrants and terrorist activists."
Far from welcoming refugees, he (Netanyahu) said Israel would shortly begin the first 18-mile phase of a secure border fence to seal off the country's frontier with Jordan.
And this is from the EU Israeli envoy:
"I think it’s very important not to accept in any way or see this terrorist attack as a result of frivolous immigration policies in Europe.  We have to keep in mind that those people, who are fleeing the Syrian and Iraqi conflicts, are exactly fleeing from the threat of ISIS and other terror groups and that’s the reason they are coming to Europe."
When it happens to Israel, it's submersion in a wave of illegal immigration and terrorists, when it happens to Europe it is unacceptable to see this in any way as frivolous immigration policies

Looking into this more, I found this funny piece of ynetnews: Israel is watching what is known as "the refugee crisis in Europe" with a mixture of sharing in grief and malicious joy. Grief over the refugees, (restrained) joy over the exposure of the hypocritical Europeans' face.
Correspondents of television channels from Israel are reporting with shock on the heart of stone of the governments, which are locking their gates to prevent the poor refugees from entering, on merciless police officers and on the death raging on the escape routes from the Middle Eastern hell to the European heaven.

Dick moves m8

Though speaking of Israeli air strikes and having laffs, one of Hezbollah's commanders just exploded alongside a five story building. Hezbollah are now sour grapes and saying Israel did it

And Nasrallah thought its best to paint Israel's map with Iranian colors and piss some more Sunnis (palestinians) on the way.

Spoiler: I got the image from Breitbart (click to show/hide)

Nasrallah is not a clever man

[Vilanat]

Snip

Woot?! dude, you are mixing, matching and distorting things based on previous assumptions through techniques which mostly befit only anti semitic websites.

1) The Jews from the first link are reformed, liberal Jews. of course they would support accepting refugees since that's what liberals do. when you "pin" this on Israel because those british citizens happen to be Jews with opinions of their own, as i said, this is a connection made only by anti semits so if you are not one, you should be more careful with your inductions.

2) It's not a secret Israel is not accepting the African refugees as refugees and sees them as Illegal Aliens. They are hardly the first western country to do so and giving Israel's delicate situation, they sure as hell have more claim to worry from Arab and Muslim Africans refugees/immigrants than Europe has. Israel is a small country with social benefits and health care, placed 18th in the world in the Human Development Index and are not separated by a sea from those immigrants. if they just open the gates they would get flooded in no time and if Europe is struggling to cope, Israel would surely crumble.

3) This is a quote by the European ambassador to Israel. not an Israeli. as far as i can tell, not even Jewish. i am not even sure if you mixed and distorted this intentionally or by mistake.

4) Anyone who is not even partially grieving over the Syrian refugees is not human. never forget that there are genuine innocent women, children and even young adult, military aged men among those refugees who simply escape war torn countries hoping to get themselves a better future while enduring a hard and dangerous journey. it still doesn't mean Europe, Israel or Japan should just accept them into their own countries. blindly accepting those refugees is not the only option to fixing the refugee problem and evidently, there are wolves among the sheep and right now, there isn't an agency in the world capable of distinguishing which is which. giving the situation, yeah, despite the horrors some of the Syrians are in, i also think Europe/Israel/Japan should not simply accept them.

Shocker. Israelis have varying and opposing opinions. you just linked to one which happened to be liberal and which the entire purpose of his article was to actually push for Israel acceptance of Syrian refugees.

Nasrallah is not a clever man

Nasrallah is not a stupid man. it was done intentionally. Iran is signalling who's the boss of the region.

[Shadowlord]

Yeah, i agree, there would probably be some sort of power struggle for a new organization/salafists coalition leadership, but that would give Syria perhaps a few weeks of reduced casualties.

It is interesting - this question of killing Bagdhadi, and whether it will ultimately be beneficial. Bagdhadi himself rose to the top amidst a leadership struggle, and leadership struggles are great contests to leave the most qualified leader alive. Of course he's holding IS together and there are so many foreign nationals and factions within IS that their implosion would be most certain in the event of Bagdhadi getting bombed. Best case scenario is he gets killed, power struggle ensues and the most paranoid man takes charge of IS's successor. Queue endless self-purging as paranoid android tries to keep his new place as top dog.

It's worth noting that according to IS itself the Caliph has to be descended from Mohammed, and Baghdadi's followers accept his claim that he is (I have never seen it debunked, either). That could limit their ability to replace him if they don't lie about their next Caliph's lineage (and risk the lie being discovered and exposed).

[Loud Whispers]

Woot?! dude, you are mixing, matching and distorting things based on previous assumptions through techniques which mostly befit only anti semitic websites.

I don't know what this means cos I was just quoting Jewish news, unless I found some Jewish Nazis (which I was surprised to find actually exist)

1) The Jews from the first link are reformed, liberal Jews. of course they would support accepting refugees since that's what liberals do.
when you "pin" this on Israel because those british citizens happen to be Jews with opinions of their own, as i said, this is a connection made only by anti semits so if you are not one, you should be more careful with your inductions.

And nazis burn down refugee camps, I don't see how pointing out they're doing it somehow absolves them of doing it

when you "pin" this on Israel because those british citizens happen to be Jews with opinions of their own, as i said, this is a connection made only by anti semits so if you are not one, you should be more careful with your inductions.

Just so happen to be British citizens who'd been teaching Jewish studies in Israel for a decade and a half? No relation I guess, this connection is only ignored by Islamaphobes tryin to get cheeky

2) It's not a secret Israel is not accepting the African refugees as refugees and sees them as Illegal Aliens. They are hardly the first western country to do so and giving Israel's delicate situation, they sure as hell have more claim to worry from Arab and Muslim Africans refugees/immigrants than Europe has.

They are the first Western country to do so at a time where the rest of the Western world went the opposite direction, and Israel does have no more claim to worry from Arab and Muslim Africans unless Europeans are worth less than Israelis

Israel is a small country with social benefits and health care, placed 18th in the world in the Human Development Index and are not separated by a sea from those immigrants. if they just open the gates they would get flooded in no time and if Europe is struggling to cope, Israel would surely crumble.

You just described Europe, which is crumbling xD
Poor southern European nations, social benefits and healthcare for northern nations and humanitarian doctors have had to be sent from Africa to Greece; yet Yuropoliticians have been caught trying to appeal to all the various Israeli groups. You got the ones demanding that EU stop being racists and open the borders to resettle Israeli African immigrants to yurop, then you got the ones pissed off that now there are all these Muslim immigrants attacking people causing massive Jewish flight from the continent so the Yuropoors decide to close the gates and protect their Jews but then get lambasted by Israelis for doing that too. Pls stop being edgy contrarians guys, yuropoors don't have an Israel to exodus to, and London can only take in so many French XD

3) This is a quote by the European ambassador to Israel. not an Israeli. as far as i can tell, not even Jewish. i am not even sure if you mixed and distorted this intentionally or by mistake.

Distorted nothing m8, I said EU Israeli envoy not Israeli EU envoy

4) Anyone who is not even partially grieving over the Syrian refugees is not human. never forget that there are genuine innocent women, children and even young adult, military aged men among those refugees who simply escape war torn countries hoping to get themselves a better future while enduring a hard and dangerous journey. it still doesn't mean Europe, Israel or Japan should just accept them into their own countries.

So what does it say when only one of the grievers helped the still living?

blindly accepting those refugees is not the only option to fixing the refugee problem and evidently, there are wolves among the sheep and right now, there isn't an agency in the world capable of distinguishing which is which. giving the situation, yeah, despite the horrors some of the Syrians are in, i also think Europe/Israel/Japan should not simply accept them.

We're actually in agreement, but treatments of which countries have done what and their responses have been somewhat unequal

Shocker. Israelis have varying and opposing opinions. you just linked to one which happened to be liberal and which the entire purpose of his article was to actually push for Israel acceptance of Syrian refugees.

No that article wasn't, and it was about the very real registry which isn't pushing for the UK to accept more refugees but is gaining private sponsorship to do so

Nasrallah is not a stupid man. it was done intentionally. Iran is signalling who's the boss of the region.

Intentional stupidity is stupidity
Flying colours is srs bsns

It's worth noting that according to IS itself the Caliph has to be descended from Mohammed, and Baghdadi's followers accept his claim that he is (I have never seen it debunked, either). That could limit their ability to replace him if they don't lie about their next Caliph's lineage (and risk the lie being discovered and exposed).

So... How many wives has Bagdhadi taken?

[smjjames]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/middleeast/saudi-arabia-executes-dozens-terror/index.html

While not surprising really, the Saudis decided to sever what few ties they had with iran after their embassy got attacked.

Yeesh, things are ramping up fast over there. Saudi-Iranian war anybody?......