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Author Topic: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.  (Read 209241 times)

Loud Whispers

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Shadowlord

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #796 on: November 29, 2015, 12:22:27 pm »

That sounds like "Obama says SEAL THE DAMN BORDER ALREADY" to me. Second article looks like gibberish.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #797 on: November 29, 2015, 12:25:00 pm »

Second article is translated from Greek, so that is where the gibber comes from

Zangi

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #798 on: November 29, 2015, 08:12:48 pm »

NATO is harbouring the Islamic State
Why France’s brave new war on ISIS is a sick joke, and an insult to the victims of the Paris attacks
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/europe-is-harbouring-the-islamic-state-s-backers-d24db3a24a40#.p9evcid8d
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Then in July 2011, a $10 billion Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline deal was announced, and a preliminary agreement duly signed by Assad.
Later that year, the US, UK, France and Israel were ramping up covert assistance to rebel factions in Syria to elicit the “collapse” of Assad’s regime “from within.”

Huh... I didn't know Assad signed an oil pipeline deal with Iran/Iraq and encouragement from Russia.
6 months later... rebels find Western backing.  I suppose that pipeline deal won't happen if Assad is out...

It would explain that blind eye from the West...  Well, the West never really did give a damn how brutal the Middle Eastern gov'ts were unless convenient.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #799 on: November 29, 2015, 08:21:12 pm »

NATO is harbouring the Islamic State
Why France’s brave new war on ISIS is a sick joke, and an insult to the victims of the Paris attacks
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/europe-is-harbouring-the-islamic-state-s-backers-d24db3a24a40#.p9evcid8d
Quote
Then in July 2011, a $10 billion Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline deal was announced, and a preliminary agreement duly signed by Assad.
Later that year, the US, UK, France and Israel were ramping up covert assistance to rebel factions in Syria to elicit the “collapse” of Assad’s regime “from within.”
Huh... I didn't know Assad signed an oil pipeline deal with Iran/Iraq and encouragement from Russia.
6 months later... rebels find Western backing.  I suppose that pipeline deal won't happen if Assad is out...

It would explain that blind eye from the West...  Well, the West never really did give a damn how brutal the Middle Eastern gov'ts were unless convenient.
Dammit, every time

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martinuzz

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #800 on: December 12, 2015, 10:43:47 am »

Two Syrians that have been arrested in the Geneva area this week in the light of an ongoing Swiss anti-terrorist investigation, have been charged with the production and distribution of not only explosives, but also of posion gas. Traces of both were found in the vehicle they were arrested in.

Both the explosives and the gas, as well as 4 more suspects are still at large. According to the Geneva newspaper, police and intelligence services are very concerned, as "more and more very concerning facts come to light".
In response to the incident, France has also increased it's police and intelligence manpower in the region near the Swiss border.

Heh, let's hope that Homeland episode where they are making Sarin gas did not give them terrorists any bright ideas.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 10:53:29 am by martinuzz »
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smjjames

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #801 on: December 12, 2015, 12:47:02 pm »

Did they say what kind of poison gas though?
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martinuzz

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #802 on: December 12, 2015, 05:48:21 pm »

Nope, at least not in the article my newspaper wrote on it.
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Strife26

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #803 on: December 12, 2015, 11:43:31 pm »

Depends how competent and ambitious they were, going from chlorine at the bottom up through sarin and various nasty things above that.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #804 on: December 13, 2015, 09:03:03 am »

They could've also been such shit chemists that they made the poison gas by accident

inteuniso

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #805 on: December 13, 2015, 11:45:26 am »

Devil's Advocate tiem!

The Islamic State is pulling all the murderous psychopaths out of the world and putting them in one place, Syria AKA that place that used to declare war on its neighbors every year.

It's my new favorite theory that the US is just trying to make all of Carlin's dreams come true. Also, can you imagine what a shitshow the last 10 years would have been if all the oil from Iraq was under Saddam Hussein's control?

Seriously, DF community. We know how the world works. We know how we work. If the political game isn't played perfectly (which usually means devolving into sociopathic murder-approving shitbags) shit could get a whole. lot. worse.

I also realize this is slippery slope fallacy, which is why I wholeheartedly recommend that this message be sent out on an existential frequency: get your shit together. It doesn't matter if all you do today is save an earthworm: work to improve the condition of life on this planet. You get better and better opportunities the more the years advance and who knows; seven years down the line we can look back fondly at this blood-soaked point in space-time and say "Damn. I'm glad we know NEVER to do that again. Good thing we have free energy now. Food, shelter, and water are no longer concerns. Homelessness has been eradicated. Poverty no longer exists. We're living in a post-scarcity society. I'm okay with this."
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bobchaos

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #806 on: December 13, 2015, 12:14:19 pm »

People all over the western world have come to fear ISIS, but believe it or not they are not that interested in us. ISIS is a Sunni Caliphate, which means their first order of business is subduing the muslim world and "converting" Shia muslims (converting often translates to murdering :P ). The only reason they encourage the young to perform terrorist actions in the West is to drum up recruitment. Some random kid blows up a plane in France in the name of ISIS, NATO responds by dropping bombs on ISIS territory, and ISIS gets some great propaganda pictures for their magazine publication Dabiq. That simple.

Their worst crime is not a handful of terrorist acts in western countries, it's the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Shia muslims that the media is mostly failing to address or even report.
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inteuniso

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #807 on: December 13, 2015, 12:26:14 pm »

Don't forget the genocide of Yazidi to Turkey's-most-definitely-did-not-genocide-Armenians joy.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #808 on: December 13, 2015, 03:32:14 pm »

People all over the western world have come to fear ISIS, but believe it or not they are not that interested in us.
Not interested in the USA. Western world =/= USA
Even then they still want the USA neutralized. I'd say ISIS is not interested in the USA same way it isn't interested in Israel; it's on the conquer for later list.

ISIS is a Sunni Caliphate, which means their first order of business is subduing the muslim world and "converting" Shia muslims (converting often translates to murdering :P ). The only reason they encourage the young to perform terrorist actions in the West is to drum up recruitment. Some random kid blows up a plane in France in the name of ISIS, NATO responds by dropping bombs on ISIS territory, and ISIS gets some great propaganda pictures for their magazine publication Dabiq. That simple.
ISIS has multiple short and long term goals with accompanying strategies to achieve them. "The only reason they encourage the young to perform terrorist actions in the West is to drum up recruitment." They are not just encouraging the young, they are sending back their veterans and telling their recruits to stop coming to Iraq and Syria and instead focus on their home front. Not just in the West, but across the world. They are increasing their recruitment efforts but you have also not asked where those recruits are going. With the coming of the new year it'll be nearing two years since Bagdhadi changed strategy from directing foreign fighters to his front to their own homefronts to create volcanoes of jihad across the world. Global influence. Since then Islamist groups that swore loyalty to ISIS like Boko Haram have gone from being tied to ISIS in name only to having ISIS send foreign fighters to train them in their tactics. Their first order of business was invading Syria, their second order of business was capturing Iraq's materiel. These victories gave them legitimacy in the Sunni world, adopting the Caliphate title and spreading the brand across the world further done so. They need to remove some very major opponents before they are capable of slaughtering the Shia who are protected by the militaries of Syria, Iran and Russia. Don't forget their ultimate dream is to fulfill Muhammed's prophecy; the city of Heraclius is already conquered and now only Julius Caesar's remains.

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Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has been deemed by his fighters to be the first Caliph since the Ottoman empire, aims to extend an ‘Islamic State’ into Europe.
Rush O Muslims to your state. It is your state. Syria is not for Syrians and Iraq is not for Iraqis. The land is for the Muslims, all Muslims. … This is my advice to you. If you hold to it you will conquer Rome and own the world, if Allah wills,”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/2/islamic-state-vows-conquest-rome-soldiers-islamic-/#ixzz36Q5ZI5FF
ISIS's strategy to stop focusing on Syria and Iraq and have their foreign fighters try to start global jihad on their homefronts is one of necessity; they are losing ground in Syria and Iraq and cannot hold ground there even in spite of foreign fighters. ISIS does not care about portraying themselves as victims on their magazine covers (or twitter posts in this case), they want to appear as victors - only with victory can they prove their legitimacy. Losing ground and getting reamed by aerial bombardment does not reek of victory and is not a very appealing recruitment message, one need only look on youtube to see very sad jihadists weeping as their foritified positions are vaporized by several thousand pounds of explosives to see how worried they are about demoralization. So attack everywhere across the world - cheap, governments are much less capable of air striking an enemy they must first find amongst their own subjects or citizens, and it draws attention away from the fact that the global state they're trying to build grows smaller and more broken every day.
This pattern is reflected across the world where ISIS affiliates like Boko Haram or Al-Shabab have changed strategy from holding ground to just inflicting as much damage as possible on soft targets. Think of how an invasion of Rome or Paris would be fatally impossible for ISIS, but an attack much simpler with pretty much the same morale boost to their fighters and their global image in the Sunni world. ISIS is weak, grows weaker - so it must appear strong. It's pretty much devolving back to its insurgency phase.

Their worst crime is not a handful of terrorist acts in western countries, it's the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Shia muslims that the media is mostly failing to address or even report.
Probably because Western media also wants to drum up support for military action versus Syria and Iran who both have protecting Shiites as one of their goals in the war. Their cleansing of the Christians is even more total and complete; at least the Yazidis have found respite in the Kurds and the Shiites found some protection from foreign powers. People are forecasting that Christianity itself will be dead in the middle east within two generations, destroyed in the place of its birth.
They're fucked basically. They no longer have a homeland, no great powers have any vested interest in them, even if they escape to friendly countries there's no longer enough of them that they are now doomed to die out over time by process of assimilation. Haha, in my lifetime I'd never thought it'd get this bad this quickly. I suppose this is what a long future of defeats looks like.

bobchaos

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #809 on: December 17, 2015, 04:57:39 pm »

*snip*

While I agree that they would want the US neutralized, it's because it's a strong opponent and pretty universally hated by ISIS's target audience. They would have a hard time putting any religious spin on the conquest of the US. It's not exactly loaded with Muslim holy sites o.O I'd also think that if there was any way they could avoid getting in a fight with the US they would. No one want to pick a fight with the guy that can field more carriers than most of the rest of the world combined o.O That said, if you wanna play on the world stage, you gotta play with the superpower, no going around it. I think if they could defeat them in the field or home front (in some hypothetical scenario where they actually become a significant military threat capable of projecting power globally like most NATO countries), they would not attempt an invasion of the US mainland. Perhaps a few symbolic conquests of extraterritorial possessions. That said, successful conquerors usually don't stop just because they don't have a claim to the next land in line XD Historically they keep going until they reach the limit of their logistical/military capacities or get violently thrown back. Once you get powerful enough, generally speaking your goals and long term plans can be summarized as "maintain and/or expand power".

Guess my point is (and the point of my previous post) is people are allowing themselves to be terrified by people halfway across the world who really have a whole lot more to think about than actually causing them harm. US citizens (and other western countries too) are allowing terrible things to happen to them (like mass surveillance programs!) because they are scared of folks half a world away who don't really care that much about them.

Israel is another business tho, they're sitting on half the Abrahamic holy sites, are also a strong and much hated opponent and they're geographically close and more threatening. If I was living anywhere close to Israel I might be a little bit worried, but then again I'd be sitting on top of one of the most impressive conventional weapon stash in the world and I'd have some powerful friends like the US. If ISIS wants to pick a straight up fight with Israel they need to start eating their bread crusts :P

Regarding Rome, I'ma go ahead and guess it's further down the line, somewhere between Israel and the US. While they sorta have to do it (or at least say they'll do it) in order to maintain legitimacy as a Caliphate, it's a logistical and strategical nightmare. Rome is in Italy, and Italy has some pretty powerful (read "nuclear armed") friends. I'm not sure how the mass invasion of a NATO country would play out but it's a safe bet it would get ridiculously nasty for the aggressor. If nukes don't go flying they sure as hell will be prepped inside delivery system. They either have to fight through half the world navies in the Mediterranean or sneak in the army over land or air, in which case its difficult to sneak in the weapons along with it. I guess they could openly march through half the christian world but that sounds like a pretty terrible idea too XD
 If ISIS wants to make a grab for Rome, they'll need to wait for a more suitable political climate, like the implosion of NATO o.O On the other hand, if Silvio Berlusconi was to take a bullet to the face during an invasion of Rome, I'm fair sure ISIS would instantly gain massive public support in Italy XD

Great analysis of their goals and current state. I was trying to keep it simple but clearly there's smart folks on these forums XD I also wasn't aware of the shift in strategy, but as you pointed out it probably won't do them much good, they're already on the decline. Good to know tho.

As for Christianity getting wiped out of the middle east, can you honestly say you are surprised? AFAIK last time Christians held territory down there was the short lived crusader states of the late middle ages. I'm surprised they lasted that long. The Jewish people were in a pretty similar position until Israel, and if they hadn't been handed a state they would likely also be facing displacement or assimilation themselves. ISIS is just one more nail in the coffin :/

Also, I'm not American, I'm one of their northern neighbors :D Once we get the conservatives out of office we can start putting blue berets on our soldiers again (as opposed to green helmets) and go back to being the friendly northern neighbors :P
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