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[Loud Whispers]

Israeli and Russian media are reporting that Chinese advisers and a carrier have moved into Syria, with the presumed assumption that China is entering the world stage. This will certainly be a first for many.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I never trust anything on RT.com.
What can anyone say about this Debka.com?

[Loud Whispers]

I never trust anything on RT.com.
What can anyone say about this Debka.com?

DEBKAfile (Hebrew: תיק דבקה‎) is an Israeli military intelligence website based in Jerusalem, providing commentary and analyses on terrorism, intelligence, national security, military and international relations, with a particular focus on the Middle East. It is available in both English and Hebrew. The word "Debka" refers to an Arab folk dance.
The site started in the summer of 2000, and is operated from the Jerusalem home of journalists Giora Shamis and Diane Shalem. It has been awarded Forbes' Best of the Web award. Forbes identifies the best part of the website as being its archives, but decries the fact that "most of the information is attributed to unidentified sources."
Wired.com's Noah Shachtman wrote in 2001 that the site "clearly reports with a point of view; the site is unabashedly in the hawkish camp of Israeli politics". Yediot Achronot investigative reporter Ronen Bergman states that the site relies on information from sources with an agenda, such as neo-conservative elements of the US Republican Party, "whose worldview is that the situation is bad and is only going to get worse," and that Israeli intelligence officials do not consider even 10 percent of the site's content to be reliable. Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf calls Debka his "favorite alarmist Israeli website trading in rumors."
The site's operators, in contrast, state that 80 percent of what Debka reports turns out to be true, and point to its year 2000 prediction that al-Qaeda would again strike the World Trade Center, and that it had warned well before the 2006 war in Lebanon that Hezbollah had amassed 12,000 Katyusha rockets pointed at northern Israel.

It's good for rumours, but wait for other reliable news sources to confirm those rumours as fact

[miljan]

I never trust anything on RT.com.
What can anyone say about this Debka.com?

DEBKAfile (Hebrew: תיק דבקה‎) is an Israeli military intelligence website based in Jerusalem, providing commentary and analyses on terrorism, intelligence, national security, military and international relations, with a particular focus on the Middle East. It is available in both English and Hebrew. The word "Debka" refers to an Arab folk dance.
The site started in the summer of 2000, and is operated from the Jerusalem home of journalists Giora Shamis and Diane Shalem. It has been awarded Forbes' Best of the Web award. Forbes identifies the best part of the website as being its archives, but decries the fact that "most of the information is attributed to unidentified sources."
Wired.com's Noah Shachtman wrote in 2001 that the site "clearly reports with a point of view; the site is unabashedly in the hawkish camp of Israeli politics". Yediot Achronot investigative reporter Ronen Bergman states that the site relies on information from sources with an agenda, such as neo-conservative elements of the US Republican Party, "whose worldview is that the situation is bad and is only going to get worse," and that Israeli intelligence officials do not consider even 10 percent of the site's content to be reliable. Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf calls Debka his "favorite alarmist Israeli website trading in rumors."
The site's operators, in contrast, state that 80 percent of what Debka reports turns out to be true, and point to its year 2000 prediction that al-Qaeda would again strike the World Trade Center, and that it had warned well before the 2006 war in Lebanon that Hezbollah had amassed 12,000 Katyusha rockets pointed at northern Israel.

It's good for rumours, but wait for other reliable news sources to confirm those rumours as fact

Offtopic but what is considered a reliable news source that when its posted its fact? Or better said what are the sources you trust?

[smjjames]

I never trust anything on RT.com.
What can anyone say about this Debka.com?

DEBKAfile (Hebrew: תיק דבקה‎) is an Israeli military intelligence website based in Jerusalem, providing commentary and analyses on terrorism, intelligence, national security, military and international relations, with a particular focus on the Middle East. It is available in both English and Hebrew. The word "Debka" refers to an Arab folk dance.
The site started in the summer of 2000, and is operated from the Jerusalem home of journalists Giora Shamis and Diane Shalem. It has been awarded Forbes' Best of the Web award. Forbes identifies the best part of the website as being its archives, but decries the fact that "most of the information is attributed to unidentified sources."
Wired.com's Noah Shachtman wrote in 2001 that the site "clearly reports with a point of view; the site is unabashedly in the hawkish camp of Israeli politics". Yediot Achronot investigative reporter Ronen Bergman states that the site relies on information from sources with an agenda, such as neo-conservative elements of the US Republican Party, "whose worldview is that the situation is bad and is only going to get worse," and that Israeli intelligence officials do not consider even 10 percent of the site's content to be reliable. Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf calls Debka his "favorite alarmist Israeli website trading in rumors."
The site's operators, in contrast, state that 80 percent of what Debka reports turns out to be true, and point to its year 2000 prediction that al-Qaeda would again strike the World Trade Center, and that it had warned well before the 2006 war in Lebanon that Hezbollah had amassed 12,000 Katyusha rockets pointed at northern Israel.

It's good for rumours, but wait for other reliable news sources to confirm those rumours as fact

What is considered a reliable news source that when its posted its fact?

Well, a google news search for "china syria" (without the quotations) does yeild various reports of China getting involved in some way and theres one report about Chinese troops wanting to join in and several about the carrier and some about it being involved diplomatically. There isn't really anything on major news sites like CNN or BBC though, not about the carrier or the troops anyway.

I'm not sure what the 'horse' is that they have in Syria either, other than wanting to play with the big boys so to speak.

[Sheb]

There is also a bunch of article claiming the carrier story is a fake. Frankly, if Chinas only aircraft carrier was to cross into the Medditerranean, itd make front-page news.

[smjjames]

There is also a bunch of article claiming the carrier story is a fake. Frankly, if Chinas only aircraft carrier was to cross into the Medditerranean, itd make front-page news.

Good point on that actually.

[Sergarr]

Spoiler: "sovereign airspace"? What does that mean? (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMasnaAf_H4

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If the Druze form a state in the South, Israel will not need to do anything on this border because contrary to your claims, Israel has no interests in Syria except fighting off Iranian and Hezbollah from the Golan heights border.

No interests except balkanizing it, ensuring their dominance - even if such balkanizing will result in internecine and deadly sectarian warfare. I also do not see Israeli expansionism stopping any time soon, once they secure a buffer zone and immensely settle it they seek new buffer zones. Fighting off Iranian and Hezbollah from the Golan heights border translates into colonizing the Golan heights.

Well, they also have it in their interest to take care of the Druze in Syria because of the large Druze population in Israel which is considered very loyal.

Cute, but Israel does not work like this.

No. Israel safest border in the last 40 years was the Syrian one. they would rather deal with Assad and his ancient military than with terrorists.
Your theory regarding Israel has a slight conflict with history and reality. the Druze in the Golan heights are extremely happy right now that Israel never gave it back and Israel will never give it back, they have absolutely no interest expanding it and when people move into the Golan Heights, its not nearly for the same reasons and its not nearly the people as in the settlements in the West Bank.

The Israeli have been confiscating Druze lands and building settlements on it, upon which Israeli settlers will move in.
You're trying to refute what is happening. Did you read what I posted?

That growth is tiny compared with the aggressive development goal — 100,000 new residents across the Golan in five years — being promoted by Naftali Bennett, a senior Israeli minister and one of many Israeli leaders and thinkers seizing on the chaos in Syria to solidify Israel’s hold on the Golan.

My theory is not a theory, it is an Israeli strategy to see its neighbours ineffectual and incapable of resisting Israeli expansion. It's the same method the Russians historically used, the British before them, the Mughals before them, all the way down to antiquity with the Babylonians.
Also, you know. Right now.

The irony is that if Israel ever create a buffer zone in Syria, it would be to protect the Druze, not so it could gain new territory for itself.

Salman Fakhreddin, spokesman for Al-Marsad, a human-rights group in Golan, complained that Israelis confiscate Druse lands, and do not share water and other resources equitably.

The justification that leads to the end result.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.663511
http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21654660-israel-has-warned-syrian-rebels-steer-clear-one-particular-minority-dont

You're posting two sources, both declarations of intent from Jerusalem. I find this as believable as Russian media talking about protecting Russians in other people's land or Chinese media talking about protecting Chinese "historical" sovereignty. Also you know, this isn't theory. They're building on seized lands right now.

To continue on this vein of thought, major oil reserves have been found in the golan heights. The volume of oil is potentially in the billions of barrels worth, more than enough to supply Israel's energy needs for the forseeable future. Most interesting; it remains to be seen whether this oil will be economically viable now or in the future.

[miljan]

Spoiler: "sovereign airspace"? What does that mean? (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMasnaAf_H4

It means that you can give permission to other countries to use your air space, as was the case here.

How they look form the gorund
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b2Pzxbzvsk

Anyway, this is the first use of russian cruise missiles in a real time war environment.

There is a bigger offence of syrian government forces on terrorism(like al-Nusra) and west backed rebels (as both groups are often working together)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFKwbKBtUQA

Hezbollah & Syria Army Against FSA in Battle of Zabadani (little old)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAosiLgmH2E

[smjjames]

Spoiler: "sovereign airspace"? What does that mean? (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMasnaAf_H4

It means that you can give permission to other countries to use your air space, as was the case here.

How they look form the gorund
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b2Pzxbzvsk

Anyway, this is the first use of russian cruise missiles in a real time war environment.

Pretty sure that was meant as a rhetorical question because Turkey was complaining about Russian jets crossing theirs without permission.

Also, I seriously doubt it's Russias VERY first time using cruise missiles (which have been around since WWII or very soon after, depending on how you classify the V-1 and V-2) in a real time war environment, which has been a thing since the first Gulf War at least.

[Sergarr]

Spoiler: "sovereign airspace"? What does that mean? (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMasnaAf_H4

It means that you can give permission to other countries to use your air space, as was the case here.

How they look form the gorund
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b2Pzxbzvsk

Anyway, this is the first use of russian cruise missiles in a real time war environment.

Pretty sure that was meant as a rhetorical question because Turkey was complaining about Russian jets crossing theirs without permission.

Also, I seriously doubt it's Russias VERY first time using cruise missiles (which have been around since WWII or very soon after, depending on how you classify the V-1 and V-2) in a real time war environment, which has been a thing since the first Gulf War at least.

I think it's the first time Russia used sea-based cruise missiles in war, though. At least that's what the news says.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/08/politics/russian-missiles-syria-landed-iran/index.html 

Looks like 4 out of 26 launched crashed in Iran.

[Loud Whispers]

"Unlike CNN, we don't report quoting anonymous sources, but we show launches of our missiles and the targets they hit in real-time mode," the statement reads, noting that Russian drones are operating in Syria around the clock, presumably monitoring operations.

It continues, "No matter how unpleasant and unexpected it is for our colleagues in the Pentagon and Langley, our strike yesterday with precision-guided weapons at ISIS infrastructure in Syria hit its targets."

In response, one U.S. official familiar with the intelligence reports told CNN, "These are the people who told us there were no little green men in Crimea."

Shots fired


How exactly do you miss by two whole countries anyways?

[smjjames]

"Unlike CNN, we don't report quoting anonymous sources, but we show launches of our missiles and the targets they hit in real-time mode," the statement reads, noting that Russian drones are operating in Syria around the clock, presumably monitoring operations.

It continues, "No matter how unpleasant and unexpected it is for our colleagues in the Pentagon and Langley, our strike yesterday with precision-guided weapons at ISIS infrastructure in Syria hit its targets."

In response, one U.S. official familiar with the intelligence reports told CNN, "These are the people who told us there were no little green men in Crimea."

Shots fired


How exactly do you miss by two whole countries anyways?

Mechanical failure? Though if four crashed, then I would probably think there is some greater flaw than one random missile being a dud.

At least it's theirs that crashed in Iran and not ours.