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[Tack]

Although isn't their empire big enough to offset that?

To throw some fantasy in the sci-fi (although it's probably been discussed already), is there any (tech-equivalent) answer to pike and shot? It's such a crappy end to the swords and horses era.

[Taricus]

Yeah, the imperium would just be far too big, and far too much of a a zombie for the federation to have a chance. Plus it only takes something like the Speranza to really throw a wrench into an invasion (Besides, the imperium has had worse.)

@Tack not really. You don't exactly have many counters to pike and shot around the era it was invented. Artillery isn't that viable yet and cavalry needs to needs to hit the formation from the flanks or the rear to be effective.

[Arx]

An answer as in a way to defeat? A larger, better trained populace. Like if you can field an equivalent number of longbowmen or so. The great strength (or at least, a large part of) pike and shot is its simplicity. Holding a long stick and doing formation drills isn't hard, pointing a crossbow and pulling the trigger isn't hard. Also, the equipment is decently simple. Crossbows maybe not, but pikes amount to a slightly worked pole and a spike. They're not the strongest, they're just really efficient for conscripting a big army.

I picked longbowmen as an example because they're generally probably more effective than crossbowmen, but they need a lot of training. Similarly, doppelsoldners/other greatsword-armed soldiers are pretty effective at dealing with pikes, but have a much higher cost of equipping and need more training.

Pike and shot got one-upped by firearms because they're also pretty simple to use, but better. Artillery are pretty ridiculously efficent against tight formations, which also wrecked them.

[Culise]

EDIT: Two replies beat me, both already much better.  Read them instead. ^_^

[Tack]

So all they needed to do was make the yeoman act less about longbows and more about zweihanders?

A funny mental picture at the very least.

[Sergarr]

swords and horses era.

Swords were usually back-up weapons, like pistols in modern army, due to them being rather bad for breaking through armor. Real knights used halberds and pole-axes.

Just nitpicking.

[Arx]

So all they needed to do was make the yeoman act less about longbows and more about zweihanders?

A funny mental picture at the very least.

And have a lot more of them, which is really the crusher. I think it says a lot about the crossbow that at one point the nobility lobbied for the Pope to ban them, they were that disgustingly effective even in a peasant's hands.

[Sergarr]

Good armor-piecring crossbows were kind of not cheap, so it's unlikely you would find them in peasant hands.

[Arx]

Good armor-piecring crossbows were kind of not cheap, so it's unlikely you would find them in peasant hands.

Pretty much any crossbow at short range against mail isn't going to be a happy fun time. Much less so against plate, but plate was a lot less common for quite a while. I think somewhere around the 14th C it started picking up a lot more, but knights in mail was the standard for quite a while around the Crusades era.

But your point is valid. Not all crossbows were equal, I agree. They can just have a much higher effective draw than a conventional bow and still be useable, which counts for a lot.

[Culise]

Pike and shot is a very early 16th century innovation, though.  It postdates the arquebus.  While crossbows were used in combined arms with infantry, it's not really pike and shot specifically.  Where pike and shot specifically differs from previous methods of combined arms was its use of gunpowder arms, which had greater stopping power and reach. 

[Kot]

To throw some fantasy in the sci-fi (although it's probably been discussed already), is there any (tech-equivalent) answer to pike and shot? It's such a crappy end to the swords and horses era.

Winged Hussars.
:*

Spoiler: ITT: Fuck pikemen. (click to show/hide)

[Tack]

Iirc the landsknight generally didn't wear much armor, so both swords and crossbows should've been fine. But pikes 2 stronk.
Would be interested to see if a Swiss pike square would beat a post-Marian cohort or Macedonian phalanx.
Like deadliest warrior but good.

[BFEL]

Okay, for another Sci Fi faction, how about the Daleks from Doctor Who?  How would they do against any of the forces presented in Star Wars and Star Trek?

Daleks win.
This is a race ready and willing to DESTROY THE MULTIVERSE to win.
No one in Wars or Trek have that kind of dedication.

[Tack]

I guess it'd have to be the big evil from that faction against the big evil from other factions. We know the Daleks would nail the Empire, but...

Daleks vs Borg
Daleks vs Replicators

Could be interesting.

[BFEL]

Daleks vs Borg
Daleks vs Replicators

Could be interesting.

Daleks win. That's the end of it.
Similarly to how Trek is tiers higher on the tech pole then Star Wars, the Daleks are at least as many tiers higher then Trek. Yes, even the Borg.