Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Persus13]

Cheeetar, IronyOwl:
You going to anything in this game, besides argue with each other?
IronyOwl: You realize it's entirely possible that Cheeetar could be an alignment that isn't mafia or town and revolves around him surviving. SO your comment that he has to be scum isn't necessarily true.


Varee, Slithuri:
Are you still playing?

Persus13, Scripten, I don't have anything to say to you two right now. Do you have anything to say to me?

Yeah, I asked you some questions, one of them being a comment on you being really lenient this game. Can you answer or point to the post where you answered that?

Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him?  What alignment do you believe him to be?

Trying to duck responsibility for lynching his top suspects, and acting extremely panicky D1. I believe he's anti-town

[Varee]

Am reading thanks for the concern...

[flabort]

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.

4maskwolf What is your opinion on what he has done since Jack A T unvoted you?
Jack A T What do you think of 4mask now? You've been unusually quite about most issues, I'd think you'd have your feet wet instead of just your toes.

Imp I want a full analysis on Toaster from you. What he's done, what you think of that, how it affects you.
Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.

Varee How do you feel about Nerjin? What do you fear most about him?
Nerjin How has Varee done so far? Is he part of your team, in your opinion?

Cheeetar Could you tell me more about Persus?
Persus What about Cheeetar is redeeming? What about him is condemning?

IronyOwl When did you start ignoring Jiokuy/MysteriousBluePuppet? What are you going to do to fix this?
MysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?

[Cheeetar]

IronyOwl, are you a lyncher?

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.

You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.

Cheeetar Could you tell me more about Persus?

Brevity is the soul of wit. He doesn't have the wall-o-text ability that many mafia players do, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think he has the right intentions in his heart (town read!)

[flabort]

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.

You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.

Post before last.

[Cheeetar]

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.

You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.

Post before last.

I don't see any 'subtle manipulation' mentioned at all. Maybe it was too subtle for even you to explain normally?

Also: I like how you said I was OMGUSing you in my vote on you, when you clearly mentioned that I voted you for a Shakerag vote.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.

Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one.  Who needs an SK?[/quote]
[/quote]

Bizarelly, Town. A SK has VERY low chances of winning a game. Like, forget about it, unless he has an overpowered role.  Most of the game come down to individual lynches, until either town  his overwhelming and can simply cop and outvote everyone, protect it's stuff, etc OR scum get ahead and can basically vote someone down by force of number. in either case, an Sk becomes a bit of a balancer, since his killings statistically will affect the dominant party more often.
As an example. If you get a 17 man game like this one with say a 4 man scumteam. If in the first few day town find a scum, scum is almost statistically dead. Unless town fucks up hard, town has got it, and Scum will have trouble using it's best weapon ( the lynch knowledge) to get ahead. But if there is an Sk, his killings will add up, and weaken town much faster, give them a chance later down the line.
In the inverse situation, a mafia dominated game is basically unbreakable around lylo (often WAY before, if they know what they are doing) if you don't have kill power around. Sk brings that.

I see it like that, Mafia is too prone to snowballing to go without either 3rd party killers or stuff like Cults.

MysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?

Nothing particular. I played with him a few years back. Looks like a stand-up fella.

MBP, yeah I get the fact you're replacing in and Jiokuy didn't even post, but your grace period is now up. Make a case!

Still getting up to speed. The fact this day started while i was doing a graveyard shift back to back ain't helping it. Right now i see people getting all up on Flabort wich is understandable yet reeks of bussing ( When scum  all vote a guy to look neat, my terms are rusty. Correct me if wrong). Flabort already revealed his role, so personally i'd wait maybe a day. He'll probably be pelted by cops and disables.

If i missed something point it out, else i'm gone for my first nap in 39 hours

[Scripten]

Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.

Looks town to me. So far I've seen mostly vanilla scumhunting from him. (Her? I saw a her before, but that might've been a typo.) It's a really big game, and I'll admit to being overwhelmed and outpaced by many of you. Imp seems to be holding their own, though I haven't seen anyone make a serious play toward them.

Now, mind explaining why you felt the need to derail people onto others to break up the concerted push toward yourself? I dislike deflection without reason. If you want to scumhunt, then do so, but don't try to defend yourself by slaving us to your purpose.

Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)

This. What suspicions of Cheetar? (I would have thought this was obvious, but my bad for not directly quoting you.) Also, last game was massively different form this one. Plus, if you were a one-trick pony, you wouldn't be so self-aware with regard to it. Your defense is weak.

[flabort]

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.

You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.

Post before last.

I don't see any 'subtle manipulation' mentioned at all. Maybe it was too subtle for even you to explain normally?

Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.

MysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?

Nothing particular. I played with him a few years back. Looks like a stand-up fella.

This response feels a bit lacking, but is about what I expected from MBP at this time. However, MBP, I expect you will think about this question and give a longer answer later.
This response tells me that you haven't had much time yet to get any coherence together, and are only starting to piece together perceptions. It also tells me you are probably town.

Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.

Looks town to me. So far I've seen mostly vanilla scumhunting from him. (Her? I saw a her before, but that might've been a typo.) It's a really big game, and I'll admit to being overwhelmed and outpaced by many of you. Imp seems to be holding their own, though I haven't seen anyone make a serious play toward them.

Now, mind explaining why you felt the need to derail people onto others to break up the concerted push toward yourself? I dislike deflection without reason. If you want to scumhunt, then do so, but don't try to defend yourself by slaving us to your purpose.

This response is also what I expected. Except for the abbr.
Yes, it is a big game, and it's hard to keep track of who's keeping track of who. I agree with you on the point that Imp hasn't been making any game-changing moves and nobodies made any moves on Imp; the way you put it, though, "holding their own", is not what is traditionally considered a tell, but lets me know more then you'd think.
The way you consider these questions to be derailment is also concerning. Derailment is what I did to gain attention, this is more like rerailment. I admit this response of yours does nothing to further my case on you, but it's par for the course; it does nothing to make anyone else less suspicious.
The way I see it, I narrowed everyone's focus by getting as much attention as I could. I let this simmer, and planted clues. As soon as people's focus expands, which I'm doing with these questions, these clues will sprout and reveal which potatoes are rotten, and which are genuine. Your claiming of my "deflection" being for "no reason" is a rotten potato. You are rotten at your core, Scripten, and you, among others, need to be thrown out to compost.

[TolyK]

TolyK:

I missed this.

Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?

Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.

What? How does that follow?

Unless you make the first move, others make the first move. The outcome heavily depends on who moves first. Agreeing amongst everyone to not lynch is nearly impossible (though hammering would be incriminating to people not on the hammering block), while having the other person hammer you is bad for whatever alignment because they might not br (or are definitely not) your alignment, and given everyone being more or less equal in terms of power, hammering would be the optimal choice in both game theory and statistics.

@question to spill the beans on townies:
I could, if you want. Bread crumbs are harder to do. But I don't know enough townies yet, and an not sure if them all.

[Jack A T]

Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort?  Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?

4maskwolf: Flabort's most likely scum of some variety (mafia or third party).  However, he's getting close to a hammer and I'd rather avoid hammering early D2, particularly against someone who is less likely to die when lynched than most players.  Also, I'm leaning third party on him (powers seem a bit much for the mafia), and would rather catch the mafia.

Do you have any suspects other than Cheeetar and flabort?  If so, why do you suspect them?  If you don't have any other suspects, why not?  How have your Day 1 suspicions held up?

Jack, your playing fine. Do I have any outstanding questions from you?

NQT: No.  Let's make a couple.  What do you think of Cheeetar's reasons not to lynch him?  Are your reads of Persus and Scripten null?

Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?

I'm not willing, at this time, to vote Flabort.  He's my top suspect, but I wish to avoid drawing us close to a hammer this early in the day.  With regards to other players, I had not had the chance to do a good examination of those who had caught my attention when I first posted today (bad headache, bad internet...), and decided to leave my vote for when I could place it effectively.

Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.

flabort: Lovely.  A quadruple OMGUS sans evidence.  Cut the posturing.

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other,

Cut the bad jokes too.

Jack A T What do you think of 4mask now? You've been unusually quite about most issues, I'd think you'd have your feet wet instead of just your toes.

4mask has improved significantly this game since his Day 1 slump, and his attitude appears to have changed for the better.  He's begun scumhunting semi-effectively, with some reasonably good work with Cheeetar.  Problem is, that's been his only real target for scumhunting today, and he hasn't done much of it.  Mild scum read.

Why try to get the pairs/trio you chose to focus on each other?  Why those specific pairs/the specific trio?  Why this sudden push to change where people are focusing?

PPE: Cut the bravado as well.
IronyOwl: Please summarize your case against Cheeetar.

In hindsight? Of course I'm glad he did what he did- he killed a SK ally and he outed himself as scum (in my eyes) because of his terrible reasoning for what he did.

Cheeetar: Would it be correct to say that you consider flabort to be fully to blame for the Shakerag lynch?  Also, please summarize your defense against IronyOwl.
MysteriousBluePuppet: Great to see you again.  If you had been in the position of Cheeetar or Shakerag at the end of Day 1, what would you have done?  What are your reads?  How, if at all, does Flabort's claimed Latvian Dream power play into your idea of how to deal with Flabort?
Imp: You talk a lot, but I don't see much in the way of stances on issues from you.  Reads?
Nerjin: Now this is quite the reaction.  In response to a small jab about your cases, you snap at NQT and spend several lines accusing him of hypocrisy.  And best of all...

I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job.

...you drag in an element you should know to be untrue.  I say you should know because the very next thing in your post is you seemingly selectively quoting much of the post that proves the above assertion false.  I say "seemingly selectively quoting" because you omitted only the part that proves your accusation false.
So.  Would you be so kind as to tell me what it is about the attention of NQT that so scares you?  Would you mind explaining the assertion that NQT believes himself to have done an excellent job this game?

I was... second on the bandwagon. I voted him with minimal evidence to pressure vote him and hopefully get more out of him. Evidently, he has incriminated himself even more.

TolyK: See, I don't have a problem with when you joined the wagon.  What I have a problem with, TolyK, is how you contributed, not when you joined.  You came in, voted flabort with minimal evidence (you say it was a pressure vote), and then mostly just sat back and watched.  You were part of the push, but not really participating in the push.  Your vote was there, but little more.  And when that's basically all your scumhunting so far, there's something wrong.

...but what do you think?  Why do you think he is worth your vote?

He's worth the vote for rolefishing, and now even more for causing a bull fight to save his own skin, and even more for being very defensive and OMGUS-ing Nerjin.

It is good to see this strong statement of your opinion.  Flabort, you say, is very much worth your vote.

Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, TolyK, Varee, Jack A T

So much so that you're not voting for him.  Or, for that matter, anyone.  Why are you sitting back and coasting through the game with little scumhunting?  Why is your only vote so far in this entire game such a halfhearted one?  Why are you not voting the person you say is very much worth your vote?

I do think I know who isn't scum.

@question to spill the beans on townies:
I could, if you want. Bread crumbs are harder to do. But I don't know enough townies yet, and an not sure if them all.

...Huh?  What information do you feel comfortable giving about this?

[Cheeetar]

Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)

And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.

You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.

Post before last.

I don't see any 'subtle manipulation' mentioned at all. Maybe it was too subtle for even you to explain normally?

Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.

Yes yes yes, I understand you say you've done it. You haven't got much to back it up there, though.

Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)

Cheeetar: Would it be correct to say that you consider flabort to be fully to blame for the Shakerag lynch?  Also, please summarize your defense against IronyOwl.

No. I consider Flabort to be about 8/9s to blame for the Shakerag lynch. I was part of the reason he died, and it was purely self preservation. I don't see it as particularly suspicious self preservation, given what the situation was, however.

My defense against Irony Owl:
His point:
Cheeetar is scummy for not letting myself be lynched- after all, then we'd know who the scum was!
My response:
The person who hammered me would have a number of defenses to fall back on, and Flabort's support- Flabort left it 'up to town to decide which to kill', and it would've all been just a terrible mistake. Might've ended with Flabort or the person who hammered me being lynched, but there's absolutely no guarantee and this way I can lead the Flabort lynch myself.

His point:
Cheeetar has only ever acted to save himself from lynch!
My response:
No, I've actually been fairly active doing a variety of things. You may not think activity is towny, but you can at least agree that I've done things other than hammer Shakerag.

His point:
Cheeetar would've lynched a townie to save himself from being lynched (?)
My response:
Didn't know he was a townie, could've been any alignment, and I definitely knew I was townie. If it was a confirmed townie on the other side of the lynch, then I wouldn't've hammered.

If I've missed any of his points, don't worry, Irony Owl will let you know.

[TolyK]

I am currently comfortable with saying who without saying how I know - if I die and then up town, you would likely believe me. Note that if I happen to pick the wrong people as town, I.e. Scum, then them killing me would be beneficial, so I should try not to fail in this respect.

Jack, I am using the same logic that you are for not voting, if you read my other posts. I was busy finishing up CYOM at the beginning, and I haven't yet done my grand reread yet, either. Soon^TM

[Imp]

4maskwolf:

I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).

Did you elaborate on this already, or change your mind about it?
IronyOwl:

He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively.

The bolded part of your logic trail loses me.  How can you describe preparations that puts a hammer in the hands of any single individual who acts first to be given 'to the town collectively'?  This also seems to clash with other things you said.  Why'd you include that sentence?
notquitethere:

I'd rather lynch Toaster, who's yet to place a vote despite saying he will (ok, in fairness, the quicklynch probably happened before he got a chance). I want to see whether he's able to press a case today.

What happened to your follow up with this, NQT?  I remember you feel that having multiple suspicions and both voting and changing one's vote is a very town thing to do.

Toaster's next post answers someone else's question and asks this:

A better question is this:

Flabort:  If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?

Followed soon after by a post with more content, including the line to NQT:

So for reals, who do you suspect and why?

Toaster makes 3 more smallish posts, offering comparisons to earlier BYOR games and making a couple of single sentence pressure maintainers to flabort and TolyK.

NQT, you respond to Jack A T, talking about having been overwhelmed (know the feeling) and how it's time for analysis now. 

The next post has a vote for Varee and a one liner for Toaster:

Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?

Please explain why you voted for Toaster D1 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.
Varee:

Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.

Would you explain yourself if we asked you to, or is teasing and evading the only answering you are prepared to offer?

Just in case you answer, why are you now discussing the 'house' as a possible downgrade to 'toilet' or something?  Implying you dumped on someone?
Jack A T:

Well.  Two of us lynched what was probably the best possible lynch target D1 based on less than no evidence.

Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?
TolyK:

I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?

Would you say you don't really follow the thread?

I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.

What blew my mind was your use of language and timing.  People had mostly stopped talking about millers for over a day at the time you voted, so when you voted, no, people weren't talking about millers.  That combined with your use of past tense, 'as far as I remember', 'when I voted', and 'random vote', to me that sounded like an attempt to make your 4.5 hour old vote sound like something from over a day before, back when people were talking about millers and when random votes were the only votes there were.

I didn't take your vote for a random vote at all; you even gave it a reason that didn't sound random in the slightest, for all it was a one-liner.

Given that you're not reading 'the whole thread', I guess you just grabbed bits of stuff that caught your eye while you skimmed, and you randomly grabbed flabbort's talk about his role as something to vote and ask about?  And you honestly meant what you said, 'people still talking about millers', because to you they were, you hadn't bothered to track the thread for over a day, really, so you just assumed that was still a topic?
4maskwolf:

Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him?  What alignment do you believe him to be?
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort?  Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?

To me the main issue in 'should flabort be lynched, and should he be lynched D2' revolve around balancing the fairly clear feel of 'Town' I was getting from interaction with him against his actual visible use of abilities.  I have an analysis of that and his playstyle partially typed up but I am way to tired to finish it tonight.  I actually still think Varee is the scummiest person in play, but I think we all still have a lot to discuss today and Varee has largely decided to only participate in fragments of discussion that appeal to him, so I'm expecting I'm going to simply offer my case against Varee and if needed compromise vote to the scummiest possible lynch choice, if there is a choice as day-end nears.
notquitethere:

Imp, you can be thorough when you want to be but who are you going to vote today?

Still deciding on who to vote for.  Day doesn't end for another almost 100 hours, that's plenty of time to gather more interactive information.  If the day ended right now, I'd vote for Varee, understanding that flabort is probably being lynched instead.  I really want to see more interaction before day ends, and there's quite a few questions I want to read answers to first.

I'm done for tonight, I have to sleep.

This post is incomplete; I haven't even answered all my questions yet.  One's for my reads, I'd posted those, current as of then, about 12 hours before the hammer fell D1.  They're in a spoiler labeled 'My reads' which might have made them hard to see.  I'll provide an updated list of reads and get around to the rest of my questions when I have time, Saturday if not Friday.

[Imp]

EBWOP
NQT:

Please explain why you voted for Toaster D1  D2 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.