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[ancient_vampire]

Thanks for this great utility!

Currently I try to make a phoebus tileset addon similar to your MLC Tileset TWBT addon.
I read the tutorials, and understand almost nothing. But the example addons helped a lot.
It went fine so far, but now I have a some stupid noob questions:

Q1   Is there any way to stop rubble from installing certain ".txt" files from the addon folder to df/raw/objects folder?
Q2   Which commandlines do I have to add to the .rex file, to make rubble installing the following files from the phoebus graphic set?
   Or is it OK to copy them into raw\graphics after rubble installed the addons I want?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

raw\graphics\graphics_doren_crittermen.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_example.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_jiripetru_elves.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_kafine_animals.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_magnut_next_underground.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_nwkohaku_animals.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_nwkohaku_birds.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_nwkohaku_bugs.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_phoebus_animals.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_phoebus_dwarves.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_phoebus_goblins.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_phoebus_humanoids.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_phoebus_humans.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_phoebus_procedural.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_sphr_elves.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_sphr_kobolds.txt
raw\graphics\graphics_sphr_monsters.txt
raw\graphics\version.txt

raw\graphics\doren\crittermen.png
raw\graphics\jiripetru\elves.png
raw\graphics\kafine\animals.png
raw\graphics\magnut\next_underground.png
raw\graphics\nwkohaku\animals.png
raw\graphics\nwkohaku\birds.png
raw\graphics\nwkohaku\bugs.png
raw\graphics\phoebus\animals.png
raw\graphics\phoebus\dwarves.png
raw\graphics\phoebus\goblins.png
raw\graphics\phoebus\humanoids.png
raw\graphics\phoebus\humans.png
raw\graphics\phoebus\procedural.png
raw\graphics\sphr\kobolds.png
raw\graphics\sphr\monsters.png

[Abadrausar]

What I meant was that you could use the existing base for 40.15, since there were no changes.
No raw changes this time either, so go ahead and use 5.5.
@milo: How do you update?

I know!
I were only following the joke of your funny disclaimer 

I think that Milo updates his vanilla rubblized raws doing rebases or maybe doing cherry picking between git branches of his own rubble repos and those of the vanilla versions. And then some adaptations should the need arise...

@Milo I have the idea of doing a github repo with all the versions that I have of rubble, stating clearly that you are the original autor and are not responsible of my changes except for having inspired me in collaborating in the rubble system.

In the positive side collaboration is a lot more easy with a system of control of versions in place than with only a zip file as the only mean of software distribution.

This would enable me to do an well indexed MarkDown tutorial for rubble as the readme of the github project with all your documentation plus some other bits. In this way all the rubble documentation would be disponible directly from internet for anyone.

But I would prefer to use your own rubble git repo if there were one.

[Abadrausar]

Q1   Is there any way to stop rubble from installing certain ".txt" files from the addon folder to df/raw/objects folder?

You must change the extension of all the TXT files that does not contain Rubble, Rex or DF code in the addon, I usually use the readme extension for these.

Q2   Which commandlines do I have to add to the .rex file, to make rubble installing the following files from the phoebus graphic set?
   Or is it OK to copy them into raw\graphics after rubble installed the addons I want?

Yes, you could do that and use then the Rubble import/export capacity of graphics sets that you are using in a more permanent way

[milo christiansen]

First: sorry about being gone for a while, I'll try to answer all questions in order (more-or-less).

Rubble will read ANY text file, no need to have "user" as part of the name. I think I actually just added a section to "Rubble Basics" about how things are named, but the short version is simple, Rubble doesn't care, but DF or you may
The convention I use for naming files is to include the whole addon name with any spaces or slashes replaced with underscores and in all lowercase, hence why everything in the "User" group starts with "user_".

If you want a file to contain code but not be included into the raws simply use the ".rbl" extension instead of ".txt"

How do I update? Well first I run a custom Rex script on the new versions raws to compare them to the last version, this extracts all the files that have changed since last time I updated. Then I use notepad++'s compare plugin to look at the new file and Rubble's copy side by side and make any changes needed, annoying but relatively fast.

There are two "OK" ways to install those files, either you can add `{@GRAPHICS_FILE}` to the top of each one, or you can use something like this:

Code: [Select]

(rubble:filetag "<filename>" NoWrite true)
(axis:write [rubble:fs] "out:graphics/<filename>" [rubble:raws "<filename>"])
If you choose to use a script makes sure you use a post script (.post.rex), else any parsing Rubble does will get "lost"!
BTW: I suggest you put the creature graphics in a separate addon!

If anyone makes an addon that is "of general interest" (like tileset addons for example) and can provide a .webload file for that addon, I will include the webload file in Rubble (if that is the author's desire). See "Rubble Basics" for a description of the webload system.

I do not use any kind of version control, I used fossil for a while, but for a single person project it takes more time than it saves. If you want to make a Rubble repo, go ahead as long as you keep it more-or-less up to date :p If you want to make your repo complete I have every version of Rubble all the way back to GoBlast 1.0, available for the asking (I also have full copies of the old Better Dorfs addon pack, even the first versions that used Blast).

BTW: If you want I can make a documentation server that will host addon metadata in a web friendly manner (basically a web UI lite). I haven't made anything like that yet because I have nowhere to host it. (any other custom Rubble-related server software is also a possiblity if there is a need)

=========================================================

Rubble 5.6 will be up in a few short seconds!

This change is a big one! I got really bored for a while, and when I have nothing to do I work on Rubble. Most of the changes are to the addons, but some changes to the Rubble engine made it in as well.

Humans can be made playable now (expect bugs)!
The logic gates work now (and are joined by an item sensor that works with the same API)
Phoebus raw mappings are now available (but creature graphics and tilesheets are not installed)
It is now possible to deactivate addons in the web UI (stupid bugs)
Powered workshops may be shutdown without shutting off their power (so they may be adjusted)
Many other small tweaks to the powered workshops
And many other changes (see the change log for details)

[milo christiansen]

BTW: If anyone has any bright ideas for stuff they would like Rubble to have (new templates, commands, addons, etc) I want to know, more stuff to do is never a bad thing :p

Rubble also has my "official" To Do list ("Rubble Ideas"), if you see something nice in there feel free to say something and I'll move it up the list.

[two-humped camel cheese]

I'm glad I found this since it seems most of the mods fixing stuff are not up to date.

Is it possible to maybe merge all of the various animal organs into one generic "offal" item but still allow for distinct animal meats?

[ancient_vampire]

@Milo

Did you notice that making steel bloom from iron, requires explicit a bar of charcoal, not just coal (made from lignite for example)?
The Magmabloomery has no reactions, because "reaction_user_metallurgy_bloomery.txt" has no "[BUILDING:MAGMA_BLOOMERY:NONE]" entries.

For some reason the Bulletin Board produces magma items...

and finally thanks for tilesets\phoebus!

[Abadrausar]

If anyone makes an addon that is "of general interest" (like tileset addons for example) and can provide a .webload file for that addon, I will include the webload file in Rubble (if that is the author's desire). See "Rubble Basics" for a description of the webload system.
...
BTW: If you want I can make a documentation server that will host addon metadata in a web friendly manner (basically a web UI lite). I haven't made anything like that yet because I have nowhere to host it. (any other custom Rubble-related server software is also a possiblity if there is a need)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

==============================================
.webload files:
==============================================

It is possible to order Rubble to download a zipped addon from a web server when it is run, these addons are downloaded only if their size has changed from the last time they were downloaded (so auto-update for addon packs is a thing now!).

AFAIK if you use the correct URL it should be possible for Rubble to read addons directly from DFFD!

To make use of this ability simply create a file with the extension ".webload" (the file name is used as the addon name), the file's contents are stripped of whitespace and used as a download URL.

URLs used for web loading MUST be complete, eg "www.example.com/somefile.zip" will not work, use "http://www.example.com/somefile.zip".

.webload files are only allowed in the root of the addon tree (basically exactly the same rules as normal zipped addons).

For this we could use a per Rubble version zip catalog of mods in http://dffd.wimbli.com that will contain the list of disponible addons and where in http://dffd.wimbli.com they are disponible

I do not use any kind of version control, I used fossil for a while, but for a single person project it takes more time than it saves. If you want to make a Rubble repo, go ahead as long as you keep it more-or-less up to date :p If you want to make your repo complete I have every version of Rubble all the way back to GoBlast 1.0, available for the asking (I also have full copies of the old Better Dorfs addon pack, even the first versions that used Blast).

I have the Rubble versions: 3.13, 4.3, 4.4, 4.6, 4.7, 5.0, 5.1, 5.5, 5.6
I lack following your changelog the versions 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.5, 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4 to be able to do a complete git repo from at least the version 4.0 as I would like. A downloading point with all these would be nice for me.
One software repo has many uses and not all of them of any utility for developers, the versioned sources and the changelog can be used as users documentation until better options are ready and maybe some of them can evolve to developpers at some point.
The fact here is that the DF modding community deserves a util like Rubble can become and is already very close to be, but if we dont use a repo the collaboration is made more difficult than strictly necessary.

BTW: If anyone has any bright ideas for stuff they would like Rubble to have (new templates, commands, addons, etc) I want to know, more stuff to do is never a bad thing :p

Rubble also has my "official" To Do list ("Rubble Ideas"), if you see something nice in there feel free to say something and I'll move it up the list.

Things that i would like to see in Rubble:

• A zip file in http://dffd.wimbli.com is used as a catalogue system of all Rubble compatible addons disponibles for this version, each one of these can then be individually chosen by the final user for download also from http://dffd.wimbli.com 
• The champs header and description in adddon.meta files should be Markdown enabled, there are some mature libs for go that do just that
• Reintroducing in the new interface the tabbed paradigm of the old one, should open to us new possibilities of showing dense info in a way as clear as possible.
• More people using it...

BTW: If anyone has any bright ideas for stuff they would like Rubble to have (new templates, commands, addons, etc) I want to know, more stuff to do is never a bad thing :p

Rubble also has my "official" To Do list ("Rubble Ideas"), if you see something nice in there feel free to say something and I'll move it up the list.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I don't write it down I forget it, hence this file.
If you see something nice in here that you want to use with your mod feel free to steal it

You know, the problem with formal TODO lists like this is that they rapidly fill up with things that I should do, but am too lazy to finish for the foreseeable future...

• Make the effect of "User/Speluncaphobia" wear off when maximum cave adaption hits.
     "User/Speluncaphobia/DFHack" is bugged (that or DFHack is). Determine where the problem is and fix it (or get it fixed)!
• Playable everyone:
     Remember: Most of the special stuff needs to be in generic addons, if you want to play dwarves with elven wood working that should be possible. The race addon should just set a general "flavor".
     
     Humans
        Done. (sort-of)
        I should do a crates addon to encourage trading.
        Make an embassy addon to allow forcing caravans, diplomats, and sieges.
     
     Elves
        Need a way to make grown items and special weapons grade "wood" logs.
        No real way to disable stone or metal working, so if you want an "elven heretic" fort...
     
     Goblins
        No eat and drink will make it easy to survive if you turtle up
        This may be a good time to make a raid system.
     
     Kobolds
        Will require a MAJOR rework of the entity!
  
• Other playable races:
     Gnomes:
        Mostly just smaller dwarves for flavor, nothing special
        Excellent mechanics, stone workers, etc, poor anything surface related.
        Should they be good smiths or should gnomes focus on stone? Probably stone I think.
        Obviously using the powered workshops is encouraged
• Finish the powered sensors:
     Sensors:
        Unit (variants for pets and hostiles?)
        Cart (settable cargo thresholds)
        (others?)
     Other:
        Repeater (wait y ticks, turn on, wait x ticks, turn off, repeat)
• Succession fort tools
     A way to handle multiple tilesets on one world (in a user friendly way).
     The problem is that the current system (regen) is too easy to mess a world up with.
     
     Proposal A:
        A special "succession mode":
           Batch generate a special raw set that supports multiple tilesets (via raw switching)
              You choose your addons, then choose tileset addons, one raw set is generated per tileset addon
        A tileset switcher utility (using the already generated raw sets)
        
     Proposal B:
        A utility that reads a Rubble tileset file and modifies existing raws with the information.
        Basically the parsing from "Dev/Tileset/Insert" paired with something to parse the tileset file.
        More flexible than proposal A, but may be harder to implement.
• Crystal Thorn
     A slow growing (but not too slow!) farmable plant that has two uses:
        It may be processed to a low value raw gem
        It may be milled to sand
     ~4 plants for each gem or 1 plant per unit of sand
        Processing to gems will require a custom reaction, milling to sand can probably use the vanilla system
        By using vanilla milling nothing special needs to be done to make them work with the powered mill addon
• Port the old "BD/Farming/Basics", but with faster plant growth.
     The old addon was too hard (extra slow plant growth + complicated processing = starve).
        If plants grow too slowly they will not be able to compete with other ways to get food.
     Should I support the new "garden" plants or should they be removed?
        I am inclined to remove most of them, but expand the list of plants from the old version.
     Add more "special" plants (like the above idea), make sure there are several plants for each niche, etc.
        Some plants should be similar, but with different processing and/or byproducts
           For example several oil plants, some fast growing, but producing a cheap toxic oil (good only for soap) and some slow growing, but capable of producing an edible oil that can be cooked OR made into soap.
           Another example would be berries, they can be eaten or brewed, while some other plants may be ground then pressed, to provide both food AND drink from the same plant.
     Now that I have a good system for config vars variable difficulty is possible...
• A powered screw press.
     May be difficult, I may have to make this one less flexible than I would like.
     [HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:HONEYCOMB_PRESS_MAT] (unpressed honeycomb tools only)
     [HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:PRESS_LIQUID_MAT] (unpressed globs and plant growths only)
     Press to jugs:
        [EMPTY]
        [DOES_NOT_ABSORB]
        [HAS_TOOL_USE:LIQUID_CONTAINER]
• Support milling items to paste at the powered mill
     Vanilla uses [HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:PRESS_LIQUID_MAT], but only for seed items
        This will need to be extensible by other addons.
• A powered forge?
     Maybe, maybe not...
• Port the "BD/Hives" addons.
     All of them require a good bit of reworking.
        The spider addon is designed for use with Essential DF (uses creatures that do not exist in vanilla)
        The rainbow beetle dyes desperately need to be changed (color names do not match dye descriptions)
• Make the unpowered quarry require soil (if DFHack is available)
• Gem forge
     Create armor, weapons, furniture, tools, etc from gems
     Probably requires a new material template for all gems (to make them sharp and hard)
     Mostly gems should make good edged weapons, but poor armor
     mostly decorative, good for nobles and fancy stuff like that (but gem swords may make a good early weapon)
     Not stockpilable? Not sure, but if so (and if there is no easy fix) this won't happen.

Some other ideas:

• Fix sober vampires forum method.
• Magma melting creatures with temperature disabled via syndrome (also in forums), good for FPS.
• A framework to delete or hide every vanilla building and reaction for use in total conversion mods.
• A from scratch minimal total conversion mod that using the later could also be used for testing purposes.

[milo christiansen]

(bug reports...)

Thank you!
Uhm..., the magma items from the bulletin board wouldn't be from a lack of DFHack? If the board works just with extra magma (tm) then it should be an easy fix (this addon is an almost direct copy of one from the DFHack r5 mini-mod pack, so I don't know much about how it works under the hood, but I have seen this issue with other addons before)
These should be fixed in 5.8 (as 5.7 is already finalized).

(Lots of stuff.)

I assume some of that was for the edification of those who don't want to download the package just to read the documentation?

I have just uploaded an archive of every Rubble version ever (plus basically every other Rubble-related file I had in my archive, which is quite a lot)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10160
Have Fun!

I'll address your suggestions in semi-random order:
A per-version addon catalog? Sounds good, but who would maintain it? (I can't) And are there any third party addons yet to even list?

Markdown header/descriptions sounds good, all I need is a markdown translator (downloading now). I even have preexisting support for multiple markup formats, so this should be a trivial addition

Using a repo: not going to happen unless I get internet at home (are you offering to pay for it, I promise faster updates :p ), you can make one to provide an archive of sorts, but any bugs that get fixed there, etc will have to be exported as a patch and sent to me for merging into the master sources (yes, that will be a pain for everyone involved).

More interfaces (specifically a proper GUI again) can't happen until one of two things happens:
go can create standard DLL/SO files (currently it can't, and large parts of the community seem to think this is good sigh)
I find an easy to use GUI API for go that is feature complete (and I look for such a thing quite often).

Deleting vanilla buildings is not possible (I did some research on this just recently), I have no idea if the side bar could be overridden to hide them or not. If someone does the required DFHackery I'll make an addon to encapsulate it. As for reactions I already provide such a thing ("Libs/DFHack/Add Reaction").

A minimal total conversion base would be possible, but quite a lot of work for very small gain, make one and I'll include it, else you'll have to wait for me to develop a high enough level of boredom (and with all the other suggestions...)

Sober vampires and temperature-less magma melting are thing I have heard about but never took the time to research, I'll have to do that.

==================================================

5.7 is up, and brings with it some significant changes to the Rubble engine (but very few to the addons).

By far the biggest change is a complete replacement of the tileset system, you can now apply tilesets to already generated raws, even non-Rubble raws! This change is immensely significant, especially since Rubble can automatically generate the files needed to apply a tileset from that tileset's raws (will Rubble make it's way to starter packs now? We will see.)

One change that should bring at least a little developer cheering is the fact that prep is finally gone, I removed it's last use so there was no need for it anymore Less stuff to try to get users to understand == less head aches for addon developers.

If anyone wants to make a creature graphics addon I added some stuff to make it a little less of a pain.

The files in objects/text are now handled.

Most of the other changes are supporting one of the things I listed, but as always see the change log for full details.

[PeridexisErrant]

5.7 is up, and brings with it some significant changes to the Rubble engine (but very few to the addons).

By far the biggest change is a complete replacement of the tileset system, you can now apply tilesets to already generated raws, even non-Rubble raws! This change is immensely significant, especially since Rubble can automatically generate the files needed to apply a tileset from that tileset's raws (will Rubble make it's way to starter packs now? We will see.)

Indeed   I think it basically depends on whether it's easier to integrate Rubble or just hack together a mod/graphics combiner from the parts that will be in the PyLNP v0.9 - basically just three-way merges, but if it works...

[Abadrausar]

A repo for Rubble: https://github.com/Abadrausar/Rubble-

Here we have access to all versions of rubble from blast era passing by 1.0 up to 5.7

I have renamed all .txt doc files into . md (markdown)

Now Rubble doc can be read online.

From the next version there will be at least two branches: 1st with unchanged Milo developments and 2nd with my own where I will try to reorganize all the doc under one unique entry point with an index and even develop a FAQ, after that I would like to expand the tutorials little by little.

Milo, impresive the new tileset capabilities of Rubble, all seems a lot more easy and natural now I must find the time to try it in deep.

Github also support .rst files as the dfhack project is using now so I am evaluating the cost opportunity of using these instead of the .md files.

[PeridexisErrant]

@Milo - consider using something like mysysgit off a USB; you can sync it occasionally and the benefits of version control are much larger than I expected.

[Abadrausar]

@Milo - consider using something like mysysgit off a USB; you can sync it occasionally and the benefits of version control are much larger than I expected.

That is also my wish, but I prefer Gitextensions+ portable (you can have it in a USB pen) disponible in windows and linux for his easy grafical interface.

Now Milo has a rubble repo to see himself how version control can profit his development process. A full sync of the rubble repo should be possible even with the smallest USB pen.

If at any point Milo decide to publish his own rubble repo I will rebase my documentation changes over his own repo.

[milo christiansen]

I used fossil for a while, and compared to my system (daily backups and make-a-copy-before-changing) it was cumbersome and had too much overhead (and fossil is a LOT lighter weight than git).

If more than one person is working on a project version control is more-or-less required, but for a single person project like this it's not worth it.

That said go ahead and use a repo, just make a patch with any changes you make (and see that it makes it's way to me if you fix any bugs or update something).

Wow, some of the docs really look horrid as markdown, I should probably change that. Now that markdown is used for addon descriptions it makes sense to use it for the other documents as well.

Anyway, sorry for being gone for a while, and doubly sorry for forgetting my flash drive I had 4.8 all ready to go, but it is sitting on my desk ~15 miles away...

At a minimum 4.8 will come with support for markdown formatted addon descriptions and several bug fixes, we'll see what else gets added before I get to a library again

[milo christiansen]

Did I mention I am in the middle of writing yet another scripting language? Well I am, and if it works well it will be used by Rubble in the near future.

And of course syntax is just different enough to make porting all those scripts a real pain in the rear...

Anyway, that won't be a problem for a few months yet, but consider this an early warning that a v6.0 with a total (scripting) compatibility break is on the way.
All the non-scripting stuff should remain more-or-less the same.