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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: [loading grimdark, please wait]  (Read 1055023 times)

90908

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6825 on: October 03, 2016, 08:34:59 am »

I happen to think that Chaos is a weird foe in that it is, by its very nature, unpredictable. Many novels have Chaos represented by a massive horde of cultists that do not fear death, or perhaps a cult that controls the aristocracy, or a sprawling empire, or a mixture of the above with some SLAANESH added in for flavor.

And, funnily enough, I think all of these are valid interpretations. Chaos is not one faction. All that unites the varied cults is their gods. Their location, methods, exact beliefs and a hundred other variables are different. I think it is not unreasonable to say that many Chaos worlds maintain a population of slaves whilst another simply uses Warp-FuckeryTM to fix everything. Some Chaos worlds are probably just sitting there, getting their Glorious Disease/Wondrous Hedonism/BLOOOOOOOD/Just as FUCKING Planned on and praising the ever-living fuck out of the Four.

Just my two cents.
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Tack

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6826 on: October 03, 2016, 12:04:22 pm »

I think the disease would be wonderful and the hedonism, glorious.
Makes more sense. Or cents
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90908

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6827 on: October 03, 2016, 12:31:31 pm »

I think the disease would be wonderful and the hedonism, glorious.
Makes more sense. Or cents
YOU'RE PATHETIC ATTEMPT AT PUNNERY OFFENDS SLAANESH

Ahem...

Yeah. I guess you're right

...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 01:59:29 pm by 90908 »
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We have a rich tradition of percussion instruments as well, all of which are based around a musician smacking variously sized hollow rocks.
It was quite brutal actually. Who knew you could suffer major head trauma from undergarments?

TempAcc

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6828 on: October 03, 2016, 12:35:54 pm »

I sometimes imagine myself saving an entire guardsman detachment from daemonettes by distracting them with this and performing rave appropriate dance.
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 10:47:39 pm by Tack »
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Sentience, Endurance, and Thumbs: The Trifector of a Superpredator.
Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

90908

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We have a rich tradition of percussion instruments as well, all of which are based around a musician smacking variously sized hollow rocks.
It was quite brutal actually. Who knew you could suffer major head trauma from undergarments?

Tack

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6831 on: October 03, 2016, 01:03:18 pm »

it's too late at night for me to put in efforto make a 'poe's waagh' pic.
So just use your shitposty imagination I guess.

I'll be waiting in teh sad thread for when you accidentally put a 'your' in a resume or a media statement.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 01:04:49 pm by Tack »
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Sentience, Endurance, and Thumbs: The Trifector of a Superpredator.
Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

Radio Controlled

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6832 on: October 03, 2016, 01:52:52 pm »

you're
lol m8 get baited lololololol...

Sorry.

You better be *grumble*

Oh, and Tack, would you mind spoilering large images please? My phone aggressively flips me the bird every time I try to scroll past it.
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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6833 on: October 03, 2016, 05:50:53 pm »

How does the Emperor's status as Anathema of Chaos affect the philosophical aspects of Chaos?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6834 on: October 03, 2016, 05:55:12 pm »

I'm not sure what you mean. Anathema is just something the Chaos Gods started calling Emps when they realized he was doing a half-decent job killing them by making everything awesome.
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pisskop

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6835 on: October 03, 2016, 05:56:35 pm »

I do lol at the idea that chaos cant have nice things.

I mean, they often dont, because theyre jerks and meanies to each other and they use their nice things to destroy other peoples nice things, but chaos is, like every other badguy in human annuls, an actual society that has been demonized by the home team.  And their own, but thats a literal thing.

Being flesh and blood in the Eye means you have flesh and blood needs.
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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6836 on: October 03, 2016, 05:56:54 pm »

I'm not sure what you mean. Anathema is just something the Chaos Gods started calling Emps when they realized he was doing a half-decent job killing them by making everything awesome.
But hes no longer doing that?
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6837 on: October 03, 2016, 07:13:28 pm »

How does the Emperor's status as Anathema of Chaos affect the philosophical aspects of Chaos?

Well, I don't think it actually affects it. He's not a Chaos God. (Also not a God, see below.) He doesn't sit on the Axis of the Gods anywhere. He's outside it.

Crusade-era Emperor was truly the Anathema of Chaos. The Imperial Truth reduced the flow of "energy" to the Chaos Gods. Humanity still feeds them with their actions regardless of what it believes, but it was the lack of belief in Gods, and therefore the Chaos Gods, that was truly poisonous to them. Had the Imperial Truth completely and utterly taken root in Humanity, the Warp would still be there. Daemons would still be created by the thoughts, emotions and actions of Humanity, souls would still end up there. But without the belief in the Warp and the malign sentience of some of its inhabitants, Daemons would be weaker. The Chaos Gods would not be fed by billions of souls directly worshiping and sacrificing to them. Their names might not even be known by the learned, and in the magical thinking of 40k, that's pretty important.

But that all went tits up in the Heresy.

Current Era Emperor? He's a doorstop, at best. The mythology says he's constantly doing battle with entities in the Warp. It's never been truly qualified what he's doing though, other than stopping Chaos from pouring through the webway into the heart of the Imperial Palace. I suppose the theory is that current era 40k is so debauched and violent and aware of the mystical that Chaos would have long since broken out of the Eye and flooded into the universe were the Emperor not there keeping it at bay. I'm a little skeptical of that. I mean, the Emperor is doing something. You can't be that powerful and still alive on some level and spent 10,000 doing fuck all with your time. But being the sole thing keeping Chaos at bay, and the rest of what's going in 40k is, comparatively, way less important? That's Imperial Propaganda in my book. *BLAM*

So in order to answer whether the Emperor impacts the philosophical arrangement of the Pantheon, we have to answer: is the Emperor a God? If he's not a God then he has no impact on the alignment of the Pantheon.

And over the years I've come to the stance, like the Space Marines, that the Emperor is just a man. The best mans ever? Absolutely. Actually a mans in point of fact? The HH books go on and on about how Primarchs are human and yet not. They were accepted as human so it seems only right that the Emperor of Mankind gets the same classification, regardless of how he was created or whatever weird shit was woven into his existence to make him more powerful. And to be honest, in my mind, the Emperor being a Man at the end of the day only makes him more badass. To know it's still just a man hooked up to the Golden Throne that has been struggling and suffering for 10,000 years and still hasn't given up. That's true to the spirit of HUMANITY FUCK YEAH.

Making him a God seems like a cop out in comparison.

So I see the Emperor as outside the Pantheon, and not even divine. The Pantheon existed before the Emperor and it didn't suddenly change the moment he woke up. In my mind the Pantheon isn't like, written into nature. It's not like Fire, Wind, Water, Earth. The Pantheon is an ultra exclusive club of Warp entities who became such focal points for the most common emotions and desires of living beings that they became elevated to Godhood in the Warp and whose reaches are so vast they can touch each and every part of reality. And the Emperor, essentially a max level multi-disciplinary wizard to put it in D&D terms, figured out how to parlay with them and cheated some of their power away from them.

So the balance and philosophies of the Pantheon aren't like, immutable facts of existence, even though in the text and in our minds they're built up to be such and they're seen through the lens of Humanity. There's some writings out there of Xenos races that understood the Chaos Gods and the Warp but their overall take on it was different. And were all the traditional races of 40k to be snuffed out and new, unique races to be inserted, you'd see the balance of power in the Pantheon shift. New gods might be born with different priorities and spheres of influence. (One of them might even not be a total bastard.)

The answer to that question comes down to your own personal outloook: is violence, the hunger for knowledge, desire and decay fundamental parts of all life, no matter what race or creed? If so then the Chaos Gods will always sort of be there until there's nothing alive left in the universe. And signs do kind of point to that being the case. At least, for 40k.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 07:25:51 pm by nenjin »
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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6838 on: October 03, 2016, 07:19:56 pm »

I don't see Malal as shoehorned, he absolutely fits in with the others as inherent to the nature of 40k. His extreme inhuman side is that of futility, in both Chaos and everything, where as his moderate aspect is that of justice. Nothing can ever truly be accomplished in the galaxy, Malal is the living testament to this.
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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6839 on: October 03, 2016, 07:27:53 pm »

I like to think of Malal like Schrodinger's god. ...wrong phrase, actually. A monad god? Kinda. He only exists in times when chaos forces cooperate with each other. The greater the scale of cooperation, the more potent Malal's manifestation is, since he embodies the disunity of the chaos gods. When they cast that aside to go do something, it manifests in the form of Malal. So he's at his most powerful when Chaos is ascendant, yet his only goal is to destroy that unity and thus himself because that's what he embodies.
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