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[Rolan7]

i'll fite u (okay I'm done)

[Grim Portent]

Slaanesh is kind of fundamentally either indulgent (viz. Eldar) or escapist (some terrible hive world). It doesn't offer much in the way of actual power. All the others do, even if in the case of Nurgle it's "come at me, bro, I really don't care".

Slaanesh does offer power, great deals of it for those who know how to use it.

His greatest champions can move faster than mortals can perceive, can see and hear things outside the normal range of human perception, can bend and twist with an unholy agility, beguile those around them with words thick with warp taint and dazzle the mind with a glimpse of physical perfection.

Such a champion can dodge bullets, raise entire worlds up in heretical devotion with but a few moments of speech, are so fair that few can bear to hurt them and bear a physical strength hidden by their frailer facade.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

A point to consider is that Chaos worshipers act proportionally, and are always in a state of back-and-forth with their patrons. If they aren't powerful, cults can fester on worlds for decades or centuries, and in that time they can't go all tentacles and killfrenzy or they'll get caught. As we've seen from things like the human section of Black Crusade, there are people who can do Chaos in moderation.

Is that totally contradictory? Yeah. Does it matter? No, Chaos cares nothing for consistency. People go around peddling their mere pleasure and death cults until they reach a critical mass and things start to get out of control. In fact, I guess it does sort of matter, in that it's how Chaos determines rewards granted.

People who dive in head-first and don't play hard to get with their own human determination tend to end up as Chaos spawn. Those who do great works for the Gods but also resist them are the ones who eventually end up getting things like Daemonhood. It's very clear that the Ruinous Powers do not like giving out the big prizes unless they have no choice. As an aside, this also seems to have a tendency to provoke mortals who get that far to spit in their eyes, like with Abbadon.

Or even more than that, Settra. At least Abbadon serves Chaos, but they had to offer Settra literally everything he ever wanted with a decent guarantee they wouldn't be able to go back on it, and that didn't work either.

Anyway, the point is that comparing CSM who need to literally drown slaves in cocaine every day to feel anything and Noble McPerversion probably isn't valid, even though they're both Slaaneshi. And you know I'm all about my girl...uh...guy? Thing? Slaanesh. Yeah.

[nenjin]

Slaanesh is kind of fundamentally either indulgent (viz. Eldar) or escapist (some terrible hive world). It doesn't offer much in the way of actual power. All the others do, even if in the case of Nurgle it's "come at me, bro, I really don't care".

Slaanesh does offer power, great deals of it for those who know how to use it.

His greatest champions can move faster than mortals can perceive, can see and hear things outside the normal range of human perception, can bend and twist with an unholy agility, beguile those around them with words thick with warp taint and dazzle the mind with a glimpse of physical perfection.

Such a champion can dodge bullets, raise entire worlds up in heretical devotion with but a few moments of speech, are so fair that few can bear to hurt them and bear a physical strength hidden by their frailer facade.

Add to the pile: control over hordes of adoring slaves who will happily die at your command, and more debauched sex0rz than you can stomach.

The problem is ego. Nurgle has none, Khorne's is pretty well-sublimated by bloodlust. Tzeentch has ego but not the kind that pities itself when it loses. Slaanesh though, Slaanesh is all about ego and self love and it's hard to square that gracefully with defeat. What makes them such entertaining and flamboyant villains also makes them the most pitiful beaten adversaries to me. You strike down something of Khorne and you think well, yeah, that's all part of the game plan for them. You strike down something of Nurgle and you go well, yeah, they'll be back because it's all part of the plan. You strike down something Tzeentch and at least sometimes you go well, yeah, that's probably part of the plan too. OR IS IT?!?!?!!?!?1111

But with Slaanesh you strike them down and it's like "Serves you right, you degenerate scumbag." Sometimes you get that with Tzeentch too but I've always gotten the impression failure doesn't really rankle Tzeentch. Sure someone may get turned into a Chaos Spawn in a fit of pique, but by and large they're on to the next scheme.

Maybe I'm just too heavily inundated with HH Fulgrim style spoiled brat writing at this time and it's coloring my perception. But if I'm honest, my sense of contempt for Slaanesh has always gone back a ways. Even after I stopped thinking Khrone was the best thing since slice bread as a teen, I've always retained a special sort of snigger for Slaanesh. Because they do so honestly have it coming. Loken punching out Lucius in a duel is a microcosm of what the 40k universe feels for Slaanesh. It's not a coincidence it's also how I sometimes feel about the Eldar, but to a less extreme degree. Self confident fast-types always leave you longing to land that solid blow and put them on their ass.

People who dive in head-first and don't play hard to get with their own human determination tend to end up as Chaos spawn.

You get the occasional savant/true believer too.

And you know I'm all about my girl...uh...guy? Thing? Slaanesh. Yeah.

Bovine love goes back a long time in human history, don't ya know. Got cold out on the plains at night.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Delusional megalomania is but one facet of the domain of Slaanesh. One might consider all the fluff about Slaaneshi being borderline impossible to defeat in the first place because they don't care about morale and they love pain, but there's also the simple fact that they often don't care. The bitter sting of failure is just another flavor of life.

Indeed, Slaanesh is as much the pursuit of novelty as it is the pursuit of excess. The two just have a way of colliding after a while, which is why anybody who gets to immortality tends to go off the deep end.

And as for Tzeentchians not being bothered by failure, are you kidding me? Can you say, "Thousand Sons"? Sure, sometimes you have Lords of Change dying laughing about it all going according to plan, but for everyone not dedicated to the greater mindfuck of Tzeentch the wounds to their personal ego are insurmountable.

[Rolan7]

A point to consider is that Chaos worshipers act proportionally, and are always in a state of back-and-forth with their patrons. If they aren't powerful, cults can fester on worlds for decades or centuries, and in that time they can't go all tentacles and killfrenzy or they'll get caught. As we've seen from things like the human section of Black Crusade, there are people who can do Chaos in moderation.

Is that totally contradictory? Yeah. Does it matter? No, Chaos cares nothing for consistency. People go around peddling their mere pleasure and death cults until they reach a critical mass and things start to get out of control. In fact, I guess it does sort of matter, in that it's how Chaos determines rewards granted.

People who dive in head-first and don't play hard to get with their own human determination tend to end up as Chaos spawn. Those who do great works for the Gods but also resist them are the ones who eventually end up getting things like Daemonhood. It's very clear that the Ruinous Powers do not like giving out the big prizes unless they have no choice. As an aside, this also seems to have a tendency to provoke mortals who get that far to spit in their eyes, like with Abbadon.

Or even more than that, Settra. At least Abbadon serves Chaos, but they had to offer Settra literally everything he ever wanted with a decent guarantee they wouldn't be able to go back on it, and that didn't work either.

Anyway, the point is that comparing CSM who need to literally drown slaves in cocaine every day to feel anything and Noble McPerversion probably isn't valid, even though they're both Slaaneshi. And you know I'm all about my girl...uh...guy? Thing? Slaanesh. Yeah.

That is an excellent point!  For a (pseudocanon) illustration, look at the DoW cultists:  Gleeful, basically unthinking servants who (surprise surprise) only exist to harass and serve as chaff for the true warriors.
The chaos space marines, who revel in chaos, but... they're so different.  Willful. They serve, yes, but with aspiration foremost in their minds.  Someday, they WILL become a champion.
And then the actual champions and unique characters.  Survivors of many trials, including shrewd negotiations.  And as a result:  Duplicitous, selfish, assholes.  Because that's what it takes to rise to the top.

So yeah...  Maybe I was right to doubt that Slaanesh was *excess*.  Excess is a trap.  I... should know that lesson by now.
Slaanesh is creativity.  And Nurgle is... safety?  Routine?  Self-preservation?  Ideally immortality, but the greatest gifts only come to those that earn- and DEMAND them.

[nenjin]

Can you say, "Thousand Sons"?

Unless you're positing Tzeentch was in the Thousand Sons from inception, then Arhiman's inability to deal with failure is none of Tzeentch's doing. He finds the whole hilarious, frankly. In fact, the majority of the Thousand Sons told Ahriman to leave well enough alone but he couldn't.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Can you say, "Thousand Sons"?

Unless you're positing Tzeentch was in the Thousand Sons from inception, then Arhiman's inability to deal with failure is none of Tzeentch's doing. He finds the whole hilarious, frankly. In fact, the majority of the Thousand Sons told Ahriman to leave well enough alone but he couldn't.

Tzeentch was in the Thousand Sons from the start (the familiars from Prospero were around before the legion showed up), but I'm talking about the worshipers. I know Tzeentch finds it hilarious. That's the secret of Tzeentch, that he's in this for trolling. But Ahriman, Magnus, and the living Thousand Sons were ruined forever by this.

[nenjin]

At least their motives are a little purer than pride. Unlike Slaanesh followers were losing is an affront to their personal fabulousness.

[Neonivek]

Luckily Chaos shores its numbers up via magic... At least that is the best explanation I got.

They seem to be the typical evil race that should have died a long time ago but has the author in their pocket.

THEN AGAIN... the same can be said of the Orks who literally have ways to come back to life written right in their DNA... but I just assume they do other stuff off screen.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

At least their motives are a little purer than pride. Unlike Slaanesh followers were losing is an affront to their personal fabulousness.

Baby, who needs victory when you look so damn good losing? The villains always lose, but the people cheer for them anyway.

Luckily Chaos shores its numbers up via magic... At least that is the best explanation I got.

They seem to be the typical evil race that should have died a long time ago but has the author in their pocket.

Technically it's time travel. The Eye of Terror is randomly lurching out traitors, CSM or human, all the way from back in the Horus Heresy every day.

But humans can live and reproduce under Chaos. It's a short and brutal life, but it does keep them going. And of course, there's always room for converts...

[Neonivek]

But humans can live and reproduce under Chaos. It's a short and brutal life, but it does keep them going. And of course, there's always room for converts...

Here is kind of the thing about chaos.

If were a farmer working for Chaos... They would probably torch and salt your field for fun.

I somehow don't picture them having particularly effective domestic policies.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

But humans can live and reproduce under Chaos. It's a short and brutal life, but it does keep them going. And of course, there's always room for converts...

Here is kind of the thing about chaos.

If were a farmer working for Chaos... They would probably torch and salt your field for fun.

I somehow don't picture them having particularly effective domestic policies.

Then the local Power That Is would have them all killed and their families flayed alive as a mark of the fate of those who defy the Black Marches. Chaotic worlds still eke out a certain kind of society, that being the rule of the fist (well, bolter).

[Rolan7]

Technically it's time travel. The Eye of Terror is randomly lurching out traitors, CSM or human, all the way from back in the Horus Heresy every day.

But humans can live and reproduce under Chaos. It's a short and brutal life, but it does keep them going. And of course, there's always room for converts...

Time travel, and a thing far too horrible to even discuss here.  "Unwilling hosts" is probably enough to give the gist, but somehow the truth is far worse even than that.

Here is kind of the thing about chaos.

If were a farmer working for Chaos... They would probably torch and salt your field for fun.

I somehow don't picture them having particularly effective domestic policies.

Heh... no.  That's an extremist interpretation which belies the facts.
They can operate, almost like the Imperium worlds operate.
And sometimes they can go much, much deeper into nonsensical reality-warping production...  Much as Holy Terra is far more orderly than a backwater Imperium conquest world.

[spazyak]

as I see it chaos is like the game of thrones, you either win or die a quick and brutal death.

...

 Or get turned into a daemonet whore with big papa slaanesh there with censored to censored and censored you