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[Tack]

I'm more of a Khorne player myself.

Sighs misty-eyed at daemonkin codex.
Maulerfiends for Soul Grinders. Was it worth it?
Was It Worth It Damn You!?


However, I really feel your pain, especially as rubric marines generally cause most players to send their units scrambling for cover,

Maulerfiends and Soul Grinders actually make a pretty good combo for daemonkin. Maulerfiends rush forward and eat the vehicles while Soul Grinders waddle after them or deepstrike and belch out torrent flamer templates to burn up the infantry. Sucks in melee against tarpits, but that's what FW walkers are for.
I do wish we got Vindicators and Predators though, our shooting sucks. All we have that shoots worth a damn is Forgefiends. 

Oh cool, I thought you guys missed out on MF/FF's.

In any case, played with my new warp talons today. Lost three of them in a single round of bolter fire.
Que me putting them away and never looking at them again.

Meanwhile, possessed marines seem to do work re: close combat.
Same issue not having any grenades, though. Have to put them with a footsorceror or something, 'cos the Termie Sorc I stuck them with last game couldn't do it.

[Grim Portent]

Oh cool, I thought you guys missed out on MF/FF's.

We lose all the non-transport tanks instead, no predators, vindicators.

Also lost a few infantry units like havocs and chosen.

Also no Warpsmiths or Dark Apostles.

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah but they're genocidal dicks even to the (admittedly few and far between) races that aren't out to get them.

The Imperium tried tau-style diplomacy once, trying to forge permanence alliances with xenos. The moment humanity became weak in the age of strife; the worlds that were friendly with xenos ended up enslaved or worse, the worlds that toyed around with psykers ended up infested with demons or worse and the worlds that relied on technology ended up having to battle vast armies of their own technology or worse. By process of elimination the only humans left were the paranoid militiaristic witch hunting worlds. The Tau are most useful here in grimdarkness; if you have a spacefaring xenos, at some point they will attack the Imperium, hence why the Imperium obliterate any xenos that can at some point pose a threat to humanity. If the Tau had been killed before their rise to power the Eastern Fringe would still be entirely human (and zerg bug) controlled. Moreover the Tau try dealing with all the other xenos, and what do they get for their efforts? Cultural exchanges with the Dark Eldar. What do the humans that fight for the Tau get? "Population control."
There's a neat short story I forgot the name of, it involves Imperials sending a full massive expedition to a primitive human world where all other small teams have failed before - they can't understand why even humans with lasguns and leman russes have managed to die so they think something is fishy. They even send a Titan. Turns out the humans got friendly with some Godzillas, massive fight ensues. The Imperials ponder the usefulness of godzillas but then realize if the Orks got their hands on a breeding pair it could spell the end of the Imperial Galaxy. They exterminatus the planet.

Unfortunately, they will never be Orky. And that is their greatest failing.
Humanity is dicks. Orkz is where it's at. They are the kindest, surpassing even the Tau, or those few Eldar who manage to avoid catching a severe case of 'being a massive dick', because they grant you the greatest thing they can think of in life.
A good foight.

Bring on the dakka

[Rolepgeek]

Yeah but they're genocidal dicks even to the (admittedly few and far between) races that aren't out to get them.

Imperial Guard is here just to carry out orders of Emperor, which aren't exactly from Emperor but that's okay because the "non-dick" races basically stopped to exist because the "dick" races and stray hate of Imperium hit them. Also, arguably, they learned to be genocidal dicks from experience, so you can't exactly blame them when almost a whole Galaxy (and more, considering Tyranids) in both material and Immaterial senses is out to get them.

True badasses of the Imperium of Man are Guardsmen, maybe. In terms of 'willingness to die for the cause',

They are willing to die for the cause, but more importantly they are willing to kill for the cause and they're certainly can.

Humanity is dicks. Orkz is where it's at. They are the kindest, surpassing even the Tau, or those few Eldar who manage to avoid catching a severe case of 'being a massive dick', because they grant you the greatest thing they can think of in life.

Except no. Maybe, sometimes when it comes to people like Yarrick it's true. But to rest of the time Orks just kill for their own pleasure.
Also, yep, humanity is dicks. What a suprise. I thought that has been agreed long ago, but even then, anyone who would even think of fighting for the "other sides" is a traitor, not only to Imperium but to human species. A true abomination of nature those traitors are, animals that are willing to take down his own, just because they aren't "kind". Warhammer 40.000 is srs bsns.

Eh, humans do the same thing right now. And in 40k, killing humans just because they don't worship the God Emperor exactly precisely in the right way, at times. Not all the time, but still. And I'd by far rather fight for ideals than for species. If I leave a lineage, it will be a mental and scientific one, I suspect. Not a genealogical one. And genocide isn't high on my list of ideals.

I mean don't get me wrong, Nids, Orks, Chaos? Fuck that shit. Dark Eldar can rot in a hole. But Kroot, Demiurg, Exodite Eldar(aka the less dickish ones who ride dinosaurs)? They ain't bad.

Also, everyone always talks about the Kaurava incident, leaving aside that any other faction would have slaughtered them all or enslaved them or something. Humans in the Tau Empire actually tend to be treated fairly well. Still second class citizens, but at least it ain't hive world conditions of wretched poverty and whatnot. As time goes on, and they become more integrated into the Empire, odds are those conditions will only get better.

On the other hand, Chaos might happen and then Tau might have to double down. *shrug* Good thing it's all fictional anyway!

[Loud Whispers]

Eh, humans do the same thing right now. And in 40k, killing humans just because they don't worship the God Emperor exactly precisely in the right way, at times. Not all the time, but still. And I'd by far rather fight for ideals than for species. If I leave a lineage, it will be a mental and scientific one, I suspect. Not a genealogical one. And genocide isn't high on my list of ideals.

Humans that don't worship the Emperor need to worship something - it is only a matter of time before they fall to chaos. That's a very real risk they make, even without considering the danger of apostasy. What's worse is perhaps the notion that worshiping the Emperor is not always enough because GRMMMMMMM. I like that one GG where the 2spooky Ghosts land on a Chaos world and fight alongside the swamp Taliban. When they are eventually rescued by Imperials, the Lord-Inquisitor-Authority something says while it's a nice idea that their faith could have allowed them to remain chaos taint free, if there was a slight chance that there was some chemical or biological factor that had allowed them to resist then it was worth "researching" even considering the human cost.

I mean don't get me wrong, Nids, Orks, Chaos? Fuck that shit. Dark Eldar can rot in a hole. But Kroot, Demiurg, Exodite Eldar(aka the less dickish ones who ride dinosaurs)? They ain't bad.

Kroot eat people, Dorfs are all right but you know it's only a matter of time before they magma a forge world and exodite Eldar are all dickheads.

Also, everyone always talks about the Kaurava incident, leaving aside that any other faction would have slaughtered them all or enslaved them or something.

That's why you also kill the other factions; what's the problem? Would you rather take a lobotomy and forced labour or death, or would you rather be TAKTICUL METAHL DEEP STRIKE

Humans in the Tau Empire actually tend to be treated fairly well. Still second class citizens, but at least it ain't hive world conditions of wretched poverty and whatnot. As time goes on, and they become more integrated into the Empire, odds are those conditions will only get better.

The human place in Tau society is only needed for as long as humans are useful. Better rev those sterilizer machines and get your brainwash button going ASAP. Plus you can't compare a hive world's conditions to a blueberry considering there are more humans on a hive world than there are blueberries in an blueberry solarsystem (and the blueberries make sure the humans do not outnumber them wherever possible).

On the other hand, Chaos might happen and then Tau might have to double down. *shrug* Good thing it's all fictional anyway!

Tau are not big enough for Chaos to affect them, they don't really use the warp for travel so short of a warp hurricane in the middle of their empire they'd be quite safe. As a species they're also not that warpy.

[TempAcc]

Exodite Eldar are dweebs who masturbate furiously to the Eldar's past monarchies. They're tolkien-eske elves with a fetish for medieval fairs who ignore the plight of their species, which makes them less relevant than even the Tau's butt foreheadvagina buddies.

And ye, the Tau don't even have proper imprints on the warp, their souls being less bright and less appealing than even normal human souls. Their rate of progress is mostly due to not being hounded by the galactical ghostly demon dick, kinda like humanity has ever since people evolved some sort of psychic power.

Its safe to say that if humanity prior to the dark age of technology didn't get a massive chaos dickslap, it would've probably reached Eldar levels of advancement by now.

In galaxy as fucked up as 40k's, the tau were apparently spared of everything bad ever. No massive chaosdick because chaos doesn't care about them, no (large enough to be threatening) ork waaghs nearby, necrons snoring deeply, no massive inflow of tyranid swarms, no Imperial presence until recent times, etc. While humanity has been besieged on all sides by all manner of horrible things, being nearly destroyed more than once, eventualy having to turn into a huge unreasonably large, gold-plated emprah-led megadick covered in spikes and skulls to dickslap all the other massive dicks away.

[Tack]

Argh. Started buying the Gaunts Ghosts novels when they started re-releasing them.
So now I'm stuck buying the bloody things as singles. Practically double-spaced too.

I mean, they're $20 a pop and the omnibi were $60 a pop so it's still adequately priced. I just hate books which have been artificially thickened through big font and plenty of white space.


Also waiting for the next trilogy to get ground out.

[Rolepgeek]

Wait, so where did you get the bit about no threatening Ork WAAAGHs? Cuz', you know, far as I'm aware, they've nearly lost the entire Empire to Ork WAAAGHs in the past(The War of Dakka is fucking up Farsight; Scraghurtz nearly ) They haven't died entirely to a WAAAGH, but neither did humans. I know at least one world the Tau had was a Tomb World that woke up(Kronus, if nothing else, considering we're taking the ending for the Tau victory as canon, apparently), Hive Fleet Gorgon, Damocles Crusade...sure, no Chaos, but they also don't get psykers or Astropaths. Astropaths is the real shitter there.

So yeah. Don't gimme that. The Tau don't get a God-Emperor or Primarchs to hide behind while they start their own version of the Great Crusade. That's what the Sphere Expansions have basically been. Far slower, but they don't have Titan Legions or STCs or Space Marines to back them up, and they can't just connect to a world already full of Tau and say 'Oh hi guys'. They have luck on their side, sure. They're kinda the equivalent of the 'plucky new kid' or whatever. More than kinda, if I'm honest. If you wanna blame their advancement on 'oh it's only because X' you can, but...

Also, I don't believe that that's true, Loud Whispers, about humans needing to worship something. Need something to give them purpose, sure. Only a few Space Marine Chapters truly worship the Emperor, it's just that Chaos is the only thing you really hear about because heresy is quashed as soon as it's found, most cases, and Chaos is the only one of those that truly presents a threat and can spread easily in the indoctrinated worlds of the Imperium of Man.

Also, everyone always talks about the Kaurava incident, leaving aside that any other faction would have slaughtered them all or enslaved them or something.

That's why you also kill the other factions; what's the problem? Would you rather take a lobotomy and forced labour or death, or would you rather be TAKTICUL METAHL DEEP STRIKE

I was, in fact, including the Imperium of Man in those 'any other faction'. Applying to be a Space Marine is almost always a failure, what with the 0.1% success rate. I would rather not have hate and rage inscribed into my bones, actually . Don't know where you're coming up with lobotomies from, though. Forced labor I can see, with the 'reeducation camps', though I have doubts as to much actual hard labor they would have. Don't have much need for it, after all. Sterilization, sure. But on the other hand...if you look at the Taros Campaign, where the humans were supportive of Tau rule, rather than of Imperial rule, things went much better for them.

Humans in the Tau Empire actually tend to be treated fairly well. Still second class citizens, but at least it ain't hive world conditions of wretched poverty and whatnot. As time goes on, and they become more integrated into the Empire, odds are those conditions will only get better.

The human place in Tau society is only needed for as long as humans are useful. Better rev those sterilizer machines and get your brainwash button going ASAP. Plus you can't compare a hive world's conditions to a blueberry considering there are more humans on a hive world than there are blueberries in an blueberry solarsystem (and the blueberries make sure the humans do not outnumber them wherever possible).

They do on Taros, still, at the very least. I hate the apostrophes everywhere, that's something I'll admit, so I'm not gonna call it T'ros or whatever they 'renamed' it to. And I can, because the fact is the Tau manage to make that work. They did, in fact, hold off the Damocles Crusade. Could they have forever? No. Probably not for more than another couple of years. But they didn't have to, because while the Imperium has the advantage of OVERWHELMINGLY HUGE, it has the disadvantage of OVERWHELMINGLY BESET BY FOES to compensate. So while, yeah, they want humans to be useful, they want Tau and Kroot and Vespids and so forth to be useful too. Vespids are full citizens of the Empire. Yes, they have probably hypnosis helmets, but so are quite a few other species that don't. Like Nicassar, I believe. So yes, you are required to contribute to society. But you aren't shot in the head if you don't. You're simply persona non grata. *shrug* As far as I understand it, anyway.

I mean don't get me wrong, Nids, Orks, Chaos? Fuck that shit. Dark Eldar can rot in a hole. But Kroot, Demiurg, Exodite Eldar(aka the less dickish ones who ride dinosaurs)? They ain't bad.

Kroot eat people, Dorfs are all right but you know it's only a matter of time before they magma a forge world and exodite Eldar are all dickheads.

Spess Mehreens also eat people. Brains, specifically. Kroot have a decent excuse (they stop being sentient if they don't), and do so in the course of legitimate (if you consider mercenaries legitimate) mercenary work. Plus, they're just the top of the food chain of Orks. Demiurg stick essentially solely to mining rocks. You guys can think what you want about the Exodites, I just know they aren't dicks as often as Craftworld Eldar(my guess is that it's mostly a result of not feeling like they have to, since they aren't dwindling down to shit or floating around the Eye of Terror or anything). Though that's not saying much.

Additionally; Tau aren't gonna cause Chaos on their own,, no, but if they keep grabbing human worlds (which they almost certainly will) and don't have protocols to deal with Cults appearing, bad shit can still go down. Although they have several other psychic races in the Empire, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Oh, and as for every xeno-loving world being enslaved, and every psyker world being daemons (okay actually that one's probably more or less true), and every tech world being uprisen against...I don't believe that's true. In fact, from the Horus Heresy novels I've read, the last one certainly isn't true. Witch hunting shenanigans only really came into play in their full form after Horus Heresy, I believe. As for the Tau dealing with every other xenos...yeah, they suffer some tragedies. Dark Eldar always find a way to do that though. And what do they gain? Well, Demiurg taught them about ion cannons, and more besides, I believe. Kroot are a major part of their auxiliaries.

Finally, Tau have the most second-most okay fine they have pretty good Dakka. Orks 'n Humies take the cake on that one.
Also Tau never had half their armies turn traitor because of one guy

Wait shit Farsight

On a different note, I really wish I could actually play 40k, but it's so freaking expensive...and the new titan-sized battlesuit is just...ugh. I don't know. It's basically an artillery platform on legs, which just doesn't seem like a very Tau approach to things (though I do wish we had some actual Emprah-damned artillery, self-propelled guns can be used for precision too damnit)

[Tack]

Tau codex hasn't been released here yet.
Apparently it's next on the 7th ed bandwagon.
So they may get some cool stuff later.

Orks are rather underpowered on table where Meta is concerned.

[Rolepgeek]

Oh, I'm not talking about a new codex.

I'm talkin' 'bout the pictures and rumors of it's stats.

[Baffler]

On a different note, I really wish I could actually play 40k, but it's so freaking expensive...and the new titan-sized battlesuit is just...ugh. I don't know. It's basically an artillery platform on legs, which just doesn't seem like a very Tau approach to things (though I do wish we had some actual Emprah-damned artillery, self-propelled guns can be used for precision too damnit)

I know how you feel. I got to play with a friend's 1000-point Imperial Guard Astra Militarium list (against his 1000-point Dark Eldar list, he's a... dedicated fellow, and he's been at it for a pretty long while.) I got wrecked because I didn't really know what I was doing, but it was still a lot of fun. He just looked embarrassed when I asked him how much it'd take to duplicate the guard army. Which doesn't exactly fill me with hope of ever getting into this. I can still enjoy the fluff, at least.

[Rolepgeek]

I mean, I have some very few basic models, but they're scarcely enough for a five-hundred point game. And overall just getting as much as I have now cost me upwards of three hundred dollars. In great part due to poor planning, I will admit, since I didn't eBay or craigslist for models and I didn't figure out what paints to get from where and ended up buying a bunch of GW paints instead. Still though...

Which is to say no one will ever actually play against me. I managed a thousand point game once by substituting a leman russ tank or something for Longstrike and taking a Fortress of Redemption (and it was hilarious when he just barely got glanced to death by the power weapon of the Blood Angels Assault Marines' Sergeant which I reminded him of since we nearly forgot it; his ion cannon worked wonders while he lived, though.

And then there's the cost and time of painting. Fun, but finding the time for it, and figuring out how...urgh.

[Tack]

The easiest way to get your hands on a 40k army is by taking it from someone else who has recently quit the game.
Gumtree or craigslist or whatever - you can generally buy a decently sized army for really cheap, because when 40k players quit, they usually quit pretty hard.

I got my 1.5k IG for about $150AUD off a mate of mine.
(Then I dropped about a grand at GW turning it into a 4k point army... That's not the point. Game is addictive.)


Speaking of addictive, I just had an awesome massive defense upon a hiveworld in Chapter Master.
It was freaking cool.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler: wall of text (click to show/hide)

Argh. Started buying the Gaunts Ghosts novels when they started re-releasing them.
So now I'm stuck buying the bloody things as singles. Practically double-spaced too.
I mean, they're $20 a pop and the omnibi were $60 a pop so it's still adequately priced. I just hate books which have been artificially thickened through big font and plenty of white space.
Also waiting for the next trilogy to get ground out.

Got a library with GG stocked nearby? Cheapest way to read em short of a pdf

Also, I don't believe that that's true, Loud Whispers, about humans needing to worship something. Need something to give them purpose, sure. Only a few Space Marine Chapters truly worship the Emperor, it's just that Chaos is the only thing you really hear about because heresy is quashed as soon as it's found, most cases, and Chaos is the only one of those that truly presents a threat and can spread easily in the indoctrinated worlds of the Imperium of Man.

It is absolutely canonically true, when the Emperor tried to crush all religions and replace them with the Imperial Truth all he did was succeed in forcing Lorgar to worship the Chaos gods, taking half the Imperium with him. It is also interesting to see how the Tau's detachment from the warp has left them blind to how much more attached their allies, auxiliaries and serfs are, that moment when the Kroot all began worshiping Slaanesh mid-battle remains moistening to my soul.
Of note is that Tau do have a warp presence, it's just ludicrously tiny so demons would rather nom on human psykers or the occasional Eldar.

I was, in fact, including the Imperium of Man in those 'any other faction'.

So was I, STEEL REHN is the pinnacle of all the Imperium in hammy glory.

Don't know where you're coming up with lobotomies from, though.

Every Tau caste agreed to the Greater Good with the sudden appearance of the Ethereals with no adequate explanation and then began obeying their authority for no adequate reason. Mind control. And the Tau certainly have no qualms with melding their subjects to see and think as the Tau do, and certainly have even less qualms using their technology to forcibly do so.

Forced labor I can see, with the 'reeducation camps', though I have doubts as to much actual hard labor they would have. Don't have much need for it, after all.

The Tau need mines and farms just as all races do; they just leave that to their subjects.

Sterilization, sure. But on the other hand...if you look at the Taros Campaign, where the humans were supportive of Tau rule, rather than of Imperial rule, things went much better for them.

And look at the Kroot barbecue or the Tau's first encounter with a sapient species when they find they have no need of you. Enslavement then horrible death, whilst they reeducate the survivors and convince them working towards their own extinction is for the greater good.

They do on Taros, still, at the very least.

A mining world where the firewarrior garrison is outnumbered several hundred thousand to 1 and the defence of the planet against the Imperium largely weighs on human hands?
They have need, they will live.
Besides, the Imperium is such a vast pan-galactic Empire that many worlds are quite nice. Agri-worlds, garden worlds, paradise-worlds and even some hive worlds in the interior safe from xenos attacks are quite nice.

I hate the apostrophes everywhere, that's something I'll admit, so I'm not gonna call it T'ros or whatever they 'renamed' it to. And I can, because the fact is the Tau manage to make that work. They did, in fact, hold off the Damocles Crusade.

Hive Fleet Behemoth held off the Damocles Crusade.

Vespids are full citizens of the Empire. Yes, they have probably hypnosis helmets, but so are quite a few other species that don't.

Hahahahaha
'You're full citizens!'
'Btw have a mindcontrol helmet that will make you think what we want.'
'P.s. it's totally awesome, greater good arrl me luver'

Like Nicassar, I believe. So yes, you are required to contribute to society. But you aren't shot in the head if you don't. You're simply persona non grata. *shrug* As far as I understand it, anyway.

No you are killed to the last for refusing the Greater Good

Spess Mehreens also eat people. Brains, specifically.

No two chapters eat people, both facing the threat of extinction because of how flawed their gene seed is.

Kroot have a decent excuse (they stop being sentient if they don't), and do so in the course of legitimate (if you consider mercenaries legitimate) mercenary work. Plus, they're just the top of the food chain of Orks.

It is no wonder the Kroot need to eat so many sapients, what is a wonder is how they haven't completely bunged up their evolution yet. Eating nids, eating chaos, eating DE - even their homeworld has some big Kroot beasties that once were Kroot.

You guys can think what you want about the Exodites, I just know they aren't dicks as often as Craftworld Eldar

Being 2nd best at being a dickhead is not much.

Additionally; Tau aren't gonna cause Chaos on their own,, no, but if they keep grabbing human worlds (which they almost certainly will) and don't have protocols to deal with Cults appearing, bad shit can still go down. Although they have several other psychic races in the Empire, so I wouldn't be surprised.

They've got a spacefaring polar bear race that is a psyker but not much else beyond humans. I do find the theory that the Tau are a Necron or C'Tan creation but we'll never know.

Oh, and as for every xeno-loving world being enslaved, and every psyker world being daemons (okay actually that one's probably more or less true), and every tech world being uprisen against...I don't believe that's true. In fact, from the Horus Heresy novels I've read, the last one certainly isn't true. Witch hunting shenanigans only really came into play in their full form after Horus Heresy, I believe.

The age of Strife was known for its Strife. It was not a fun time. The worlds that did not purge their psykers and allowed them to be free and practice inevitably invited Chaos upon their heads and demon infestation. And yes, all the men of Iron - all of them, at this point rebelled. It was really not a fun time.

As for the Tau dealing with every other xenos...yeah, they suffer some tragedies. Dark Eldar always find a way to do that though. And what do they gain? Well, Demiurg taught them about ion cannons, and more besides, I believe. Kroot are a major part of their auxiliaries.

The Mechanicus does that without putting itself at risk from xenos, their necronboner aside - at the very least they don't try negotiating with the necrons, unlike the Tau.

Finally, Tau have the most second-most okay fine they have pretty good Dakka. Orks 'n Humies take the cake on that one.
Also Tau never had half their armies turn traitor because of one guy
Wait shit Farsight[/color]
Kek

On a different note, I really wish I could actually play 40k, but it's so freaking expensive...and the new titan-sized battlesuit is just...ugh. I don't know. It's basically an artillery platform on legs, which just doesn't seem like a very Tau approach to things (though I do wish we had some actual Emprah-damned artillery, self-propelled guns can be used for precision too damnit)

LOADSA MONEY LOADSA MONEY LOADSA MONEY

[Kot]

I just wanted to respond to this balant Tauaboo but then I realized someone already did. While this isin't exactly as I would put things and some of them could be explained better (The Marines that eat brains is old lore, IIRC, (apart from those ones that just eat them for keks) they do it to acquire the memories and knowledge of person that brain belonged to. Yeah, you can clearly see Rogue Trader vibes here, so I'm pretty sure it might not be canon anymore...), but you're doing the Emperor's work anyway.