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[GavJ]

There's already a mechanism in vanilla Skyrim for making Heimskr shut up: battleaxes.

[Keldane]

There's already a mechanism in vanilla Skyrim for making Heimskr shut up: battleaxes.

For some reason, I had it in my head that Heimskr was flagged as essential. At least essential characters aren't an issue in Dwarf Fortress. =P

[Taffer]

Both skyrim and DF are extremely playable on PC without any mods. I played DF for something like 2 years without any mods at all, except changing the raws to allow eating sentients as ethical. Also fixing elven diplomats with one raw line. Otherwise, not even a different tileset of the same font, nothing. It was tons of fun.

Same for Skyrim. Like DF, youc an easily play through the whole game, even on PC, without any significant bugs. Yeah so horses run up cliffs, whatever. That's really trivial stuff. It didn't crash. It didn't give me infinite gold for turning in circles, etc. etc. Also, I don't even KNOW of any skyrim mods that would make the game more playable. All I've ever seen aroudn the internet are annoying skimpy female armor mods and ones that make whiterun into a christmas town, ones with random new redundant types of swords, etc.

There are plenty of diamonds in the rough. I can't play Skyrim anymore without Requiem. I also enjoy Frostfall, but the added gameplay elements aren't for everyone (neither is Requiem, to be fair). There are many mods in my load order that make the game more playable in little ways by balancing things a little, making things more immersive, and none of them are skimpy, silly, or unbalanced. In regards to the skimpy female armour mods, this is why I much prefer CNHF. That particular preview is SFW (the mod is not), but it makes women stronger and the female armour replacements are more believable and protective than default.

As for DF, I do use my own tileset and Dwarf Therapist, but I'm looking forward to the planned increased automation in job selection to wean myself off of the latter.

There are some similarities here and there (bosmer and DF elves, for example), but I think the similarities are incidental. One fantasy element of Skyrim that I love is the thought of dwarves being deep elves rather than an entirely separate race. This is heresy hereabouts, but I rather like elves, and the Dwemer have always fascinated me. I like to think of my DF dwarves as having babylonian style curled beards and oppressive, cruel tendencies now, even if they're not elves like the Elder Scrolls dwemer are.

[StupidElves]

I suppose I should state that I am a sucker for modded games. If it's cool, I'll put it in. I've got a lot of mods on DF, they just make it really cool. There's the samurai mod, daleks and cybermen mod, Monster Hunter mod, the dinosaur mod. All of those make the world creation really interesting.

IE, before adding in the dinosaur mod all of the creatures that would get names would be things like giant dingoes, or giant tigers, etc. But after dinosaurs were introduced, things like a T rex become the norm even without high savagery, and giant creatures stopped being an issue. A giant dingo, as I understand, is about the size of a jeep. When you have something much bigger than that running around that isn't a giant variation they stop being a problem.

Then the Monster Hunter mod just stopped the dinosaurs from being an issue. You've got things from Monster Hunter there, they're bigger. And as of now I am editing the raws for the total conversion mod of Zelda: Earthward Pick so as to not be a total conversion mod.

[penguinofhonor]

Thing is, these (negatives) are all fairly acceptable in DF, especially since some bugs can be downright funny (yak general for instance, even if we only got to hear about it in a devblog and it likely won't stay).

They aren't really acceptable for a triple-A title that is Skyrim though.

Indeed, some bugs are truly enhancing the depth of gameplay (e.g nobles' impossible demands like metal beds), and preferably, should not be fixed.

How exactly does that "enhance" the depth of the gameplay? If the noble was insane or drunk on power, ok. But the game doesn't account for that that stuff yet. You can have the most kind, understanding baron around and they'll still send some poor sap to the gallows if they can't make the yak leather flute.

It contributes to nobles' lazy, arrogant and hypocritical image, enhancing the depth of their charachter. Choose baron carelessly - and you've got an egoistic snob with a shortage of patience and a demand for pearl cabinets (or something just as ridicilous). Doesn't it just remind you of RL rich? Moreover it makes gameplay more challenging and fun, adding to an already extensive list of features.

I'd rather have actual intentional depth to their personalities instead of "Oh crap, my baron likes pearl and cabinets, that means he's going to randomly punish my dwarves because I'm not making something that's impossible to make." There should definitely be ridiculously demanding mandates, but they should be things that are possible (though unlikely) and make sense like "Make a statue of me that's ten stories tall!" or "Send our greatest hero out to singlehandedly slay that nearby dragon!" Things that can actually flesh out how a noble is crazy (and give the player a prompt to do a cool/difficult thing if they want to) rather than poorly simulating it through randomly screwing the player.

[GavJ]

^Isn't that supposed to be in the features of the upcoming release? More detailed minds and schemes and agendas and stuff.

[neblime]

schemes and agendas are part of the current dev arc, but not the next release afaik, unless you count conquering people because you dont like them and things like that as schemes/agendas

[GavJ]

From the unofficial changelog:

Personality*
• Dwarves, and other sentient beings, now have personal values which are based on their cultural values but may deviate.
• Dwarves now have traits which may not be value-neutral.
• Dwarves will have “dreams” or life goals
   ▬ creation of an artifact
▬ taking over the world.
• People react to death depending on their personal traits
▬ may applaud or call you a murderer and spit at you

Egomaniac sounds like a non-value-neutral trait to me.

Whether he has extended it already to things like mandates though is an open question.

[penguinofhonor]

I think the mandate system right now could be tied to personality a little more, but it would need significant changes (that would be mentioned in the devlog) to reflect many of the new personality traits. "Put this in my room" and "Make/don't make this" don't give you a lot to work with.

[Kerbalrocketry]

DF only need Dwarf Therapist to make one aspect of the game convenient and the bugs make the game more entertaining.
Skyrim needs SkyUI and SKSE to be playable(at least for me, i hated the PC menus designed to be used with a gamepad)

Skyrim i have to make a conscience effort to make each character feel different but generally fall back to heavy armour spell-sword. Dwarf Fortress each fort evolved differently based on landscape, resources, neighbors and my own incompetence.

[locustgate]

This is kinda like comparing a tank to a jet fighter, completely different fields.

Though I use many item adding mods in skyrim, I don't use any mods in DF, beyond some custom made creatures (animal men).

[Trickman]

Skyrim: For normies and the dumb post-mid-90's-born generation who have a shit taste for games, music and TV shows.

DF: For people in their 20's, pre-1994, who actually enjoy quality media entertainment and find no fulfilment in playing that Assassin's Creed/Skyrim/Call of Duty crap the normies play.

As a rule of thumb for me: If it doesn't require deep, strategical or logical thinking, it's not a video game.

[StupidElves]

Skyrim: For normies and the dumb post-mid-90's-born generation who have a shit taste for games, music and TV shows.

DF: For people in their 20's, pre-1994, who actually enjoy quality media entertainment and find no fulfilment in playing that Assassin's Creed/Skyrim/Call of Duty crap the normies play.

As a rule of thumb for me: If it doesn't require deep, strategical or logical thinking, it's not a video game.

Hey man, I'm nineteen.

[locustgate]

Skyrim: For normies and the dumb post-mid-90's-born generation who have a shit taste for games, music and TV shows.

DF: For people in their 20's, pre-1994, who actually enjoy quality media entertainment and find no fulfilment in playing that Assassin's Creed/Skyrim/Call of Duty crap the normies play.

As a rule of thumb for me: If it doesn't require deep, strategical or logical thinking, it's not a video game.

Hey man, I'm nineteen.

You have a very very very narrow view of what a video game, there's only 1 game that requires one to think to the point you feel like youare preparing for a final and that is DF.

23

[BlitzDungeoneer]

Actually, if it's not fun at all, it's not a video game.
Been lurkign on this thread for a while, couldn't be bothered to post before this, though.