Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[condonzack]

After browsing around the future of the fortress thread for a while I noticed a certain worry. With the planned changes to crops some people think that all of the games fake crops will eventually be replaced with more interesting real world or procedurally generated ones.

Including the plump helmet.

Now I don't believe that there will ever be a version of DF without that most delectable of fungi. But I do think that those of us who truly love the Helmet should be heard! Here I call to you to share your love of that most humble yet incredible crop.

The plump helmet is simply irreplaceable. It serves a vital role in dwarf society that is both impossible in real life and too important to leave to chance. It is THE staple crop! In the real world there are no plants or fungi suitable for a dwarf staple crop. Plants need sun, and fungus lack the sugar to be brewed. Thus the vital role of a fictional staple. While the other underground crops are rather bland the helmet has captured the attention of the player base.

Consider the role the humble helmet must have had in the birth of dwarf agriculture. If Plump Helmet people were more numerous during that time it may have constituted the entire dwarf diet! Both hunters and gatherers would fill stout bellies with the succulent mushroom.

To those who scoff and dismiss this incredible crop, consider this. When have you made a fortress without them?

[Manveru Taurënér]

Personally I think Toady only meant the aboveground plants with that answer (since that's what the question asked about as well) and plump helmets are at no risk whatsoever of disappearing, but I'll gladly throw in my support for the plump helmets nonetheless ^^

[sal880612m]

I am actually against any of the current crops being totally phased out and it would be nice for a few of the current plants to be staples.

However, if random crops are going to be a thing in the future I think that they should be generated name first with all the current names being possible and when it hits one of the current ones it then breaks out of the random generation and straight up pulls the current definitions of them. That way anyone who has been playing long enough just sort of gets an Easter egg.

[Mesa]

Plump helmets are, to me at least, the second most iconic thing of the game after the dwarves themselves (and maybe magma).
Good thing it's staying here by the looks of it though. ^^

[GavJ]

Not phased out, but they need to grow a lot more slowly and probably require nutrients. Farms are kind of a joke right now. A plot the size of my living room feeding like 150 dwarves with no light or water...

[SmileyMan]

Not phased out, but they need to grow a lot more slowly and probably require nutrients. Farms are kind of a joke right now. A plot the size of my living room feeding like 150 dwarves with no light or water...

Yeah, we demand realistic dwarves! 

[GavJ]

My point is that if the mechanics are too insanely easy, it defeats the purpose of the feature at all. 2 minutes of effort and a tiny forgotten corner of your fort, and your dwarves are now fed forever, so why did they need to be fed at all?

Relevant to the spirit of this thread, I think that if it were significantly harder to feed dwarves, we'd all have EVEN MORE appreciation of the plump helmet (it could/should still be the easiest form of food in relative terms to other crops), because it would feel like it was actually a crucial item saving you from a significant need/threat, rather than just being backgroudn clutter.

[Witty]

My point is that if the mechanics are too insanely easy, it defeats the purpose of the feature at all. 2 minutes of effort and a tiny forgotten corner of your fort, and your dwarves are now fed forever, so why did they need to be fed at all?

Relevant to the spirit of this thread, I think that if it were significantly harder to feed dwarves, we'd all have EVEN MORE appreciation of the plump helmet (it could/should still be the easiest form of food in relative terms to other crops), because it would feel like it was actually a crucial item saving you from a significant need/threat, rather than just being background clutter.

You can already edit the raws to have plants grow in seasonally/yearly manner. I'd imagine most people like the farming that currently exists precisely because it requires like 2 minutes of effort and planning. But I do agree completely with the notion that farming in general needs an overhaul, at least for those of us who want the added hassle FUN.

OT: Plump helmets definitely need to stay, but I wouldn't shed a tear if cave wheat or rock nuts get phased out.

[Manveru Taurënér]

I am actually against any of the current crops being totally phased out and it would be nice for a few of the current plants to be staples.

However, if random crops are going to be a thing in the future I think that they should be generated name first with all the current names being possible and when it hits one of the current ones it then breaks out of the random generation and straight up pulls the current definitions of them. That way anyone who has been playing long enough just sort of gets an Easter egg.

A nice idea, though there isn't really all that much to pull out. There's the name and in some cases a unique name for the booze made, the display color and a descriptive prefstring, which I doubt most people notice since it only appears in dwarven preferences. That's it pretty much. The statement that they're crappy enough to easily be replicated procedurally isn't an exaggeration.

While the subterranean plants have a firmer cultural grip as well as not having any real world counterparts to make them obsolete, there really needs to be some stock choices at the base so we don't have to decipher what's what for every new world (unless that's what you want). The aboveground ones have very little going for them in comparison. I personally wouldn't mind if the elves had a chance to bring sun fruit, or moon pears, or whatever other fitting plants they could be assigned rather than always having sun berries. I'd actually prefer that solution.

[knaveightt]

My point is that if the mechanics are too insanely easy, it defeats the purpose of the feature at all. 2 minutes of effort and a tiny forgotten corner of your fort, and your dwarves are now fed forever, so why did they need to be fed at all?

Relevant to the spirit of this thread, I think that if it were significantly harder to feed dwarves, we'd all have EVEN MORE appreciation of the plump helmet (it could/should still be the easiest form of food in relative terms to other crops), because it would feel like it was actually a crucial item saving you from a significant need/threat, rather than just being background clutter.

You can already edit the raws to have plants grow in seasonally/yearly manner. I'd imagine most people like the farming that currently exists precisely because it requires like 2 minutes of effort and planning. But I do agree completely with the notion that farming in general needs an overhaul, at least for those of us who want the added hassle FUN.

OT: Plump helmets definitely need to stay, but I wouldn't shed a tear if cave wheat or rock nuts get phased out.

I laugh, because a buddy of mine wanted to edit the raws for growing plants, and in the process had a full-on argument with me that cave wheat was the real deal.

Also, May the plump helmets be ever in your favor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@''''''#''#'#@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@'''''''''''#######@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@;''''''++'''##'######@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@;;';'''''++''''########@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@;;;;;;';'''+++'##########@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@;;;;;''''''++'''#'########@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@;;;;;;;;;''++++'##'#########@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@;;;;;;;;;'''++++'############@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@;;;;;;;;;;';'+++''''##########@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@:;;;;;;;;;';;''+'+''############@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@::;;;;;;;;;;;'''''''#'##########@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@::;;;;;;;;;;'''''''''############@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@:;;;;;;;;;;;''''''''#'###########@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@::;;;;;;;;;;''''+''''############@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@:;;;;;;;;;;;'''''++##'###########@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@::;;;;;;;''''''++'''''###########@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@;;;;;;;;;;;;'''++'''#'#'##########@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@;;;;;;;;;'''''+++''''''###########@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@;;;;;;;;;;';'+++++''#'############@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@;;;;';'''''++++'#''#'##########@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@################+##+############@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@#+++++++++@##@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@''''+++++++#@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@''''+++++++##@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@::';++++++###@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@,:'''++++#+###@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@,,'''+'++++####@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@,,:'';++++#+###@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@:''''+'++++#+###@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Dirst]

I am actually against any of the current crops being totally phased out and it would be nice for a few of the current plants to be staples.

However, if random crops are going to be a thing in the future I think that they should be generated name first with all the current names being possible and when it hits one of the current ones it then breaks out of the random generation and straight up pulls the current definitions of them. That way anyone who has been playing long enough just sort of gets an Easter egg.

I'd like to keep the handcrafted plants in the game alongside the generated ones, with some nudging of Dwarf preferences towards the handcrafted plants in the raws.

"Well, planters, I see we have a few different types of seeds to choose from."
"You might think there's a choice, bookkeeper, but there ain't."
"Humor me.  Here is the Cavern Thistle.  It's a goldenrod perennial that yields twelve to fifteen pods per plant in a single season, and can be brewed into Cavern Thistle Whiskey.  And we have Night Corn, a dark blue --"
"Save yer breath.  We's plantin' Plump Helmets."
"But... but why?  The Cavern Thistle is --"
"TRADITION!"

[nomoetoe]

Yes if the plump helmet were to disappear, I would shed a tear then I'd grab a beer and shove it up my rear, for without the plump helmet I love, I would run outside and brutally murder a dove. :c

[Cobbler89]

I am actually against any of the current crops being totally phased out and it would be nice for a few of the current plants to be staples.

However, if random crops are going to be a thing in the future I think that they should be generated name first with all the current names being possible and when it hits one of the current ones it then breaks out of the random generation and straight up pulls the current definitions of them. That way anyone who has been playing long enough just sort of gets an Easter egg.

I'd like to keep the handcrafted plants in the game alongside the generated ones, with some nudging of Dwarf preferences towards the handcrafted plants in the raws.

"Well, planters, I see we have a few different types of seeds to choose from."
"You might think there's a choice, bookkeeper, but there ain't."
"Humor me.  Here is the Cavern Thistle.  It's a goldenrod perennial that yields twelve to fifteen pods per plant in a single season, and can be brewed into Cavern Thistle Whiskey.  And we have Night Corn, a dark blue --"
"Save yer breath.  We's plantin' Plump Helmets."
"But... but why?  The Cavern Thistle is --"
"TRADITION!"

I approve of both of these ideas and would be happy with either or both.

[MDFification]

Yes if the plump helmet were to disappear, I would shed a tear then I'd grab a beer and shove it up my rear, for without the plump helmet I love, I would run outside and brutally murder a dove. :c

Due to my advanced first aid certification I am bound by Canadian law to advise against shoving a beer up your rear. You can't vomit after the butt-chug, so it's very easy to give yourself fatal alcohol poisoning that way.
Please drown your sorrows in the more traditional, oral fashion.

[nomoetoe]

Yes if the plump helmet were to disappear, I would shed a tear then I'd grab a beer and shove it up my rear, for without the plump helmet I love, I would run outside and brutally murder a dove. :c

Due to my advanced first aid certification I am bound by Canadian law to advise against shoving a beer up your rear. You can't vomit after the butt-chug, so it's very easy to give yourself fatal alcohol poisoning that way.
Please drown your sorrows in the more traditional, oral fashion.

And don't forget the fact that shoving a bottle up a butt is quite painful (I think it is anyway I don't want to find out)