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[4maskwolf]

Wolf, Tiruin (or her replacement), Jiokuy
Deadline hits Monday now. You going to use your vote before then? Jiokuy especially has yet to press a single lynching case yet.

If I see something worth pursuing, yes.  Currently I'm processing the various arguments against various people.  I'll scumhunt later.

[Ottofar]

Being absent

Apparently being legitimately absent makes me scummy.

It's not a tell, but voting the guy voting you for it might be.

Anyway, I didn't, on a quick reread find the thing between you and Toaster I mentioned, so, I'll just Unvote Jim now. Bit in a hurry again, but might post in the evening.

[4maskwolf]

Oh, and request replacement, I have a surgery tomorrow.  Bluh.  Sorry about the late notice, people.

[Tiruin]

Oh, and request replacement, I have a surgery tomorrow.  Bluh.  Sorry about the late notice, people.

Let TWS take over 4mask Meph.

[4maskwolf]

Oh, and request replacement, I have a surgery tomorrow.  Bluh.  Sorry about the late notice, people.

Let TWS take over 4mask Meph.

Ah, right, Sheepy did say he could replace in temporarily.  And if the game goes on too long, I can replace back in if he is still alive.

[notquitethere]

Well, in that case:

When you're caught up with the game, could you make a case against someone Sheep?

[notquitethere]

COMPILATION OF READS
Part 1

If everyone gives their reads on all the other players, it's easier to sniff out aggregate suspicions and spot incongruities in player's understandings of the game. It's pretty uncontroversially a Good Thing to have.

We've got about 28 hours left, which should be plenty of time for the remaining players to give their reads.

Players Who Have Given Reads
In Chronological Order
NQT
Jim
Toonyman

Unhelpful Reads
Flabort And The Everyone Is Town Number Method
King "Everyone else hovers around null" Toaster

Players Yet To Give Reads
Jack A.T.
Persus13
Tiruin, or her replacement
zombie urist
4maskwolf Sheep
Ottofar
Jiokuy
Imperial Guardsman

(Apologies if I missed anyone)

[Ottofar]

I'd rather post more in-depth reads on D2, when there's some concrete evidence around. But, I can post something concise when I get tomorrow, for everyone to see.

[flabort]

Took the time to review my notes and go over everything that's happened so far, and come up with a better read list. Thanks for saying my previous list was unhelpful again, by the way, it spurred me into action.

Jack AT: Very active during RQS. First to argue with IG, before we though IG was scum before we thought he was 3P.
Well reasoned posts and confident. Gets at least one post per 50 posts, usually more (page 5 was mostly PFP). Wants a vig to shoot guardsman.
Has a case against NQT. Overall Town lean. (+6)

Jim Groovester: Completely absent during RQS. Still mostly absent, citing busy.
Not really giving enough info to read. Null. (-1)

ToonyMan: Answered RQS questions, didn't ask any except in response. High content posts, usually one per 50 posts (page 4 short post, no page 5).
Throws out suspicion of 4mask working with NQT.
Town lean with neutral overtones. (+5)

Flabort: Devilishly handsome town power role. Sees mafia as a puzzle, tries to survive long enough to put it together.
Asks RQS questions only to people who didn't ask him questions first, but addresses everyone in one way or another.
Definitely town. (+999)

Persus13: Active RQS, uses a blanket question to address everyone.
Higher activity than some, with multiple posts per page towards later pages. Later posts have less content then earlier posts, but not PFP levels of quality loss.
Has as much of a problem with PPE "You may wish to review your post" as I do, so maybe he's filling out a spreadsheet too? Nah.
Doesn't feel IG is telling truth. Town lean (+5)

NotQuiteThere: Starts off with full RQS mode. Was asked about Priest before IG ever came under suspicion.
Presses 4mask to talk to everyone, brings up current lynch candidates when not entirely appropriate (not that I noticed until it was brought up).
Seems mostly concerned with getting everyone to weigh in on everything, rather than getting a lynch. Town lean (+5, but I feel it shouldn't be SO high)

Tiruin: Most initial posts are reasons why she hasn't posted yet.
Once active, answers outstanding RQS questions, but misses anything not directed directly at her.
Doesn't accept answers to questions on grounds of the answers are too short. However, this is arguing with IG, so...
Neutral (+2)

Toaster: Makes a few RQS questions. Starts day believing Day 1 will be mislynch. Throws out more RQS questions as necessary.
High content posts, but not easy to tell from posts whether or not he's actually high content due to being town or blending in. Even so, the first to pass a certain point on my scumometer.
Very informative about prior Supernatural games, focused on rooting out lazy play (but then says lazy isn't always scummy).
Once he gets arguing with IG, his posts devolve from scum hunting into short replies and anger.
I suspect he's scum, but don't have enough proof to pursue. Neutral read (+2).

Zombie Urist: Very absent. First few posts answer some RQS in brevity, mostly PFP.
Soccer fan, and work is launching a new product (where does ZU work? What new product?) but really needs to contribute more.
Null read (+1)

4maskwolf: Really doesn't like Day 1 due to lack of information and activity. This game has lots of both on Day 1, though.
Very active regardless, with lots of replies. Some of his posts posts have more content than others. Most are one line or two responses, though.
A fan of the word "lolz". Makes me think of Not So Beginner Mafia, where Pisskop was behaving similarly and flipped town.
Quite possibly reaction hunting by being abrasive. Town lean (+5).

Ottofar: Starts off answering questions, and asks Jiokuy a truckload.
Seems short on time to post, as next few are brief. Once he gets going he averages medium content. Not a whole lot of posts to go on.
Lurky, slight town lean (+3)

Jiokuy: Answers a hella lot of RQS questions, asks just a few of his own.
Low activity, excused by being at a funeral (is back as of 7th post). Asks for Extend.
I'd like Jiokuy's full read list. (And yeah, 200 posts in one day is a bit much).
Null/town (+4, but need more info).

Imperial Guardsman: Starts out scummy, very scummy. I have to soft claim to get him off my case, only for him to say that's not what he wanted from me.
Later reveals he needs me alive, because of being a third party with me as part of his win condition. I for one believe his role claim.
3rd Party, one-shot 50% revive with bad stuff on fail, wins if I survive, gets new wincon if I die. "Exile Mage". Yeah, I trust that as long as I'm alive and not cult converted, he'll be protown.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
4maskwolf: Imperial Guardsman, ToonyMan
flabort: Jim Groovester
Imperial Guardsman: Persus13
Jim Groovester: flabort
notquitethere: Jack A.T., Toaster, zombie urist
zombie urist: notquitethere


Day ends ~4pm Pacific Monday

@4maskwolf that sucks, I hope your surgery goes well!

TheWetSheep, do you want to replace in for 4maskwolf?

[ToonyMan]

Unvote 4maskwolf

@4maskwolf:

4maskwolf - [1]just as hyper as IG but has [2]nothing to show for it, [3]super defensive and reactive, [4]doesn't believe IG's claim either I think? [5]It depends on the weather.

[1]Assuming you're talking about my post count, is there a problem with posting a lot?
[2]Other than my scumhunting, you mean?
[3]Would you rather I rolled over and gotten lynched?
[4a]I actually do believe his claim of third party
[4b]And it matters if I believe him why?
[5]Wut?

[1] Posting a lot is okay, but it needs to be less emotional and less spam-y. If you're hovering over the thread pressing F5 waiting for a response from a person you know is online, you probably need to back off for a bit. Think of mafia as debate class.
[2] I seem to remember Jack AT and Persus13 pressuring Imperial Guardsman better than you.
[3] No. I noticed you and NQT are being overly critical of people who vote you and I generally see that as a scum tell.
[4a] Ah, okay.
[4b] As of right now I find people who believe him to probably be less scummy, as I am of the opinion that IG is telling the truth and if I'm town and think so then other townspeople would probably think the same thing. Obviously not concrete, but hey.
[5] I was poking fun at your wishy-washy stance. I was unable to get a clear answer when I was trawling the thread.

Now, Toony: you are listing two people who have posted very little over someone who you actually have a complaint with on your scumminess meter.  Why is that?  Trying to make it seem that NQT isn't a big threat?

I do not trust Zombie Urist or Ottofar, at all. I can't gauge somebody who hardly speak their mind. I'm happy with a few things NQT is doing so I'd like to give him a chance.


@Ottofar:

I'd rather post more in-depth reads on D2, when there's some concrete evidence around. But, I can post something concise when I get tomorrow, for everyone to see.

What would happen if nobody felt like posting on Day 1? If everybody took your stance it'd be a quiet first day.


@Jiokuy:

Wolf, Tiruin (or her replacement), Jiokuy
Deadline hits Monday now. You going to use your vote before then? Jiokuy especially has yet to press a single lynching case yet.

What he said.


@Zombie Urist:

And here's my lynch vote for Day 1 unless something silly happens:

Zombie Urist for not engaging in the game and being unhelpful. Have anything to say? What are your thoughts on Jack AT and Toaster?

[TheWetSheep]

Sure.

[Jim Groovester]

flabort, you haven't answered my question.

Also, what the hell, I start playing and then everybody else stops.

[Persus13]

NQT:

Persus
Apparently he's posting from work rather than his phone, he's just quite busy. I'm voting him because he hasn't articulated a case and frequently ignores my responses. Failing to communicate with the person you're voting is a pretty typical scum move. It's looking like we're going to have an extension and I'll be making sure I'm targeting the person I find scummiest by the end of the day.

Ah, thank you for fleshing out your case. From your reads list it appeared you took issue with his brevity, which I've seen in him before.

Players Yet To Give Reads
Persus13

Mine will be at the end of this post.

Imperial Guardsman:

I havent seen a supernatural with 2 thirds, and theres a 1/3 chance of Werewolves. The other two and the only other two I have seen are Vampires ( who can cult ) and Cultists

Uh what? What does third parties and chances of werewolves have to do with Cultists? Also, I already pointed out one Supernatural with two thirds, and Toaster pointed out more. Finally, the 1/3 chance of Werewolves isn't true, because the amount of scum factions Meph has made are unknown, and we only know about 3 of them. Also, probability doesn't work on the scumteam, because it has already been chosen and therefore there's either a 100% chance of werewolves or 0% chance of werewolves, we just don't know which.

Also, you never answered this:

Imperial Guardsman

As two of the most experienced players

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Appeal_to_Authority

Lol you're funny.

I take everything mafiascum says with a grain of salt because they have a distaste for the actual human element of the game, at least on the wiki pages.

Is that actually what they believe?  Is mechanical balance their mafia god?  Because that's the impression I get.

Gotcha, 4maskwolf. A little bit of appeal to emotion I think, and you are trying to hide it under the guise of a sort of breadcrumb attack? You can take that to offtopic or ask OP for permission to PM, but in the game? You are trying to make me, what, think differently or take back everything I have said today? I can see you are the confusing scum type, ready to sow confusion and chaos whenever needed?

Wait, what? You've lost me and everyone else, please explain this post a little better.

4maskwolf:

One of the things that bugs me about the way I see a lot of you all think about the game is that there seems to be this belief that a townie shouldn't care about being seen as scum, because they have nothing to hide.  There are certain times when this is true, but by performing any action (like perceived bandwagoning) that could be seen as scummy often leads to a mislynch of them, which they also don't want.

It's more about that town players should focus on finding and lynching scum then anything else (aka winning). If you're prioritizing anything else (eg. defending yourself) then your not trying to win and aren't helping the people on your side win. However, defending yourself does help find scum, as it helps shows yourself to be town in the eyes of other players and has them move on to scum targets. It's just exclusively defending yourself and not trying to find scum is considered bad (ex. Imperial Guardsman).

Jim:

Instead, Unvote IG, Vote Jim. How come you focus on that one guy that's voting you?

I voted the guy with the least impressive game, in my opinion. The vote on me is incidental.

Define least impressive game.

Sometimes. In Prince of the Mafia he's helped lynch/kill scum with some impressive reasoning. But I feel his claim isn't completely competent because I reread the thread, and noticed his past vote wasn't consistent with his claim.

Do you think he's capable of deliberately using WIFOM to his advantage? Or, at the very least, attempting to do so?

I don't know, and I'd rather overestimate someone then underestimate when it comes to that sort of thing, ever since the last Supernatural, where I believed a fake-claim and it caused me and other town players to lose the game.

Jack A T

notquitethere: Your top scum pick is a guy who was voting you because he was just posting from his phone?

Persus13: As much as I lean towards NQT being scum, I fail to see how voting reasons that include "Only his very last post shows any sort of sliver of proactive engagement" equal a case purely for zombie urist posting from his phone.  This seems like a bit of a stretch.  Please explain.

I apologize, my question was too short and didn't fully convey my thoughts on NQT, especially his attack on ZU.
I thought NQT's attack on ZU was an attack on ZU's playstyle of short posts, made worse this game by the fact that ZU was either posting at work or on his phone. NQT's mention of viewing players as scum based on "commitment and engagement" made me more convinced that this was an attack because of how ZU played. In addition, he also attacked Tiruin for having chatty posts instead of her hunting scum, something I also thought was a playstyle attack. Attacking players based on playstyle is a major thing I tend to take issue with, and if I attack or question it, it either leads to people solidifying their cases, backing off, or turning out to be scum. I also felt that he was exaggerating ZU's lack of contribution and was suspicious of the people who had voiced suspicions of him (Toonyman, ZU, Toaster). Thanks to his response fleshing out his concerns and a realization of my own that ZU had contributed less than I had thought, my concerns about him attacking based on playstyle have diminished, however my concerns about him being most suspicious of players attacking him still remain.

Flabort:

Flabort: Devilishly handsome

Freudian slip?

Persus13: Has as much of a problem with PPE "You may wish to review your post" as I do, so maybe he's filling out a spreadsheet too? Nah.

More of replying to people and after writing a post, finding bits of it are redundant or no longer relevant.

Reads (in no particular order)
Jack A T- argues well, pretty active, brings up good points, no problems so far. Seems town, but I haven't seen his scum game.
Jim- Couldn't post till Friday, but has posted a few long posts since then. Hunting a new player as usual, and brutally honest as always. Town?
Toonyman- Need to reread his posts, as it seems like no one has really been focusing on him. Brought up good points against 4maskwolf.
Flabort- Not sure about him either. Scum finder seems like it ignores meta and context. Last used it as scum. Have seen him play well as scum, to good effect. Should ask more questions. He attacked IG using a post from JAck A T, and I still find that pretty scummy.
notquitethere: I can see why people think he is scum, but I'm not really willing to lynch him over it.
Tiruin- Contributed very little, so null read.
Toaster- Playing well so far, could be scum or town at this point.
ZU- not contributed much, want him to post more before Day end. Slightly scummy.
4maskwolf- fairly passive, although has said he hates day 1. Hope to see more content out of TWs. Slightly scummy.
Ottofar-Hasn't done much except ask a few questions. Null read.
Jiokuy- Forgot he was playing. Needs to post more, and articulate cases. Scummy.
Imperial Guardsman- I still doubt his claim of third party, and I think he's scum. Has contributed nothing useful since claiming and is scum at worse and useless at best in this game. Would like a vig to target him, but since that's uncertain I'd rather he get lynched as soon as possible.

PPE:

flabort, you haven't answered my question.

Also, what the hell, I start playing and then everybody else stops.

It's the weekend mate, come back on Monday.

[4maskwolf]

[1] Posting a lot is okay, but it needs to be less emotional and less spam-y. If you're hovering over the thread pressing F5 waiting for a response from a person you know is online, you probably need to back off for a bit. Think of mafia as debate class.
[2] I seem to remember Jack AT and Persus13 pressuring Imperial Guardsman better than you.
[3] No. I noticed you and NQT are being overly critical of people who vote you and I generally see that as a scum tell.
[4a] Ah, okay.
[4b] As of right now I find people who believe him to probably be less scummy, as I am of the opinion that IG is telling the truth and if I'm town and think so then other townspeople would probably think the same thing. Obviously not concrete, but hey.
[5] I was poking fun at your wishy-washy stance. I was unable to get a clear answer when I was trawling the thread.

[1] I don't actually sit there like that, I just check every 20 minutes or so, often longer if I'm doing something important.  It's my summer, I don't have a job until two weeks from now, so I have the free time to do things.
[2] They are also more experienced and are better able to pressure these people.
[3] Mmk.  Makes good enough sense.
[4b] Whatever floats your boat, I guess.  Though I do agree with you insofar as it goes: scum players will try to find holes in any roleclaim in order to get someone lynched, often above and beyond what a good townie would do.
[5] That's what I thought.

4maskwolf- fairly passive, although has said he hates day 1. Hope to see more content out of TWs. Slightly scummy.

Bluh, too much content in one post  .
That being said, I'm trying out a new strategy this game, then realizing I have to leave partway through.

I now turn this over to the highly competent TWS to continue the game in my stead.