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Author Topic: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode - Taking suggestions!  (Read 86039 times)

Splint

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #495 on: March 05, 2015, 04:53:37 pm »

Limiting rapid wealth building would help, but you're more or less guaranteed to be attacked early on in my experience since the orcs are slavers. That leaves a few options against early attacks.

1. Lockdown. Cowardly and may cost some trade, but if managed is fool-proof more or less. The enemy won't approach with no path, which makes ranged troopers to man the walls sort of a discretionary thing since the enemy may not come close enough to attack with them.

2. Get your biggest orcs and set them up via the tribal warcrafter. Lamellar isn't perfect, but against blunt weapons it may make all the difference. Spears are your best friend, but the macuahuitl works too, though it can't be depended on to make quick kills like the spear can, since it's contact area results in deflections off most things sturdier than standard leather. Also outfit them with the biggest shields you can make from wood.

With a little luck, the enemy's numbers will be moot because they'll all try to go after the same few orcs and trip over eachother (as displayed in Blackhold.) With some wolves or sabre cats to act as distractions, you might even win a crushing victory against a small siege. If you really win the lottery and end up fighting gnomes, then it'll be a wholesale slaughter for the brave but hopelessly tiny fellows.

3. Mass-conscription. The obvious. Call up everyone for an all or nothing attack, arming them with whatever's at hand. Worse comes to worst, there's always stone clubs and mauls from the craftsman workshop for weaponry, which are better than nothing. I advise this the least since it may result in a swift destruction regardless of victory, and large losses will discourage migrants.

EDIT: As to the uniform, I'd say drop the robe and replace it with a shirt and pants, or use the replace clothing option to force them to ditch the civvies and put on thier full uniforms. I have to do that sometimes if they're wearing leather or cloth caps as part of thier civvie attire to force them wear their damned helmets.

RodriguesSting

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #496 on: March 05, 2015, 06:36:21 pm »

Very good points indeed, and I am going to try everything you listed, though I must make some notes:

1 - Locking down with merchants inside, unless you can break the siege, is pretty much assured to screw you up. They may tantrum, and are usually well equipped.

2 - If they have marksdwarves (or whatever competent ranged unit) shooting them from afar is unlike to do much, as you will probably lose in the trade. But I am planing to expand my stockade to add fortifications on top of the walls.

I will delay the food production (or even completely forsake it) in hopes to have time to start up the bloodsteel production and equip a good force. With bloodstell, I am confident enough to take on them at melee.
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Splint

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #497 on: March 05, 2015, 07:01:35 pm »

For the merchants, cordon them off. Either use an airlock system or just lock the doors and leave them out to die. who knows, maybe the guards will be able to route the attackers?

You'll need a totem pole and ironbone for bloodsteel if you didn't know. A healthy coal industry will provide more than enough ash for the task, but supplying bone depends on... well, killing shit. And meat needs to be sacrificed or blood imported in great quantities for mass bloodsteel production.

For food, just don't make meals. Cooking is all well and good for stretching supplies out but good herbalists/farmers can cover most needs in a crisis and the caverns have ample (if dangerous) game to offer for meat. Plus that tallow is better used for soap or lamellar.

As to engaging enemy archers, don't clear cut for the love of god. especially early on if building above ground mostly or exclusively, trees can and will make a huge difference for a melee force (which is likely to be the main body of a given horde initially for logistic reasons.) Your archers won't be nearly good enough anyway if starting with only novices or worse and the cover could be the difference between pincushioned uruks and uruks giggling as they take stock of the ocean of mutilated dorfs gently wafting against thier ankles. In the same vein, perimeter traps at corners can also make a huge difference, deterring ambushes and injuring some of the enemy.

RodriguesSting

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #498 on: March 05, 2015, 07:09:32 pm »

Interesting advises, specially regarding air-locking the merchants (now I see why it is important) and the trees. I will take a heavily forested biome next time. Now the problem with that is that I will inevitably use lots of wood, because, to make lamelar, is either wood or horns, and the later are harder to come by.

I go heavy on the cooking industry because I hunt a lot to get leather and bones (a surprisingly efficient above ground material building material, as each stack provides for 4 blocks and unlike everything else, is renewable), so I gotta do something about the meat. It is very valuable and makes the orcs happy, after all. But after all this trouble... I might just trade away raw materials. I barely need to trade, after all.

Guess I will put more effort on staying down low. My orcs will be idle a lot, but I will take this as a opportunity to train them up, the ones with potential for melee, the rest for ranged combat. Seems like a solid enough plan.
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Splint

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #499 on: March 05, 2015, 07:18:48 pm »

Well to get blood for bloodsteel you grind up meat, so you can just put most of it towards that. As tot he wood, just clear what you need at the moment and leave the rest be/use the grow command in DFhack to keep the tree numbers up.

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #500 on: March 05, 2015, 11:10:59 pm »

Yeah, you need defenses quickly as any of the slaver races. 

The only thing I'd add to what Splint said is, don't be afraid to use iron or ironbone (or whatever) for weapons if you find you don't have time for steel or bloodsteel.  Shields are really important.  Maybe consider having your two most promising guys start sparring around the time of first migrant wave.  Some simple constructions like a small fortifications tower for your own archers, or some narrow corridors to restrict enemy vision and funnel them into a kill zone, can help a lot. 

Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #501 on: March 05, 2015, 11:16:54 pm »

I too have been swooned by the ridiculous (bordering on exploit) profit-margin of lavish meals; and I have too fallen prey to a series of what would otherwise be premature sieges/ambushes, were it not for that ridiculous value added. Nowadays, I simply give myself a rule not to use prepared meals as a trade item, and try to avoid cooking more prepared meals than my fortress actually will actually eat. Raw ingredients can still be sold to caravans, or in an orc fort can be used at the caravanserai/freelancer's guild. If you haven't already, I would actually recommend to try making an economy centered around food production. Right now I'm working on figuring out an above-ground tundra plantation orc fort; it's a good time.

If you have extra leather lying around, I would also recommend adding some layers of clothing to your uniform: trousers can fit under greaves, for example, and mittens under gauntlets. Every little bit helps, and at the very least it might make the difference between a treatable wound (e.g. torn muscle/tendon), and a permanent one (e.g. severed nerves).
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RodriguesSting

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #502 on: March 05, 2015, 11:34:31 pm »

Yes, the dwarf inside me couldn't resist the >2000 urists per barrel, while also making the entire fort ridiculously happy. After those anecdotes, I am not even bringing a cook with me anymore. The kitchen is just for tallow now, and I hope I can control their mood with  decoration alone. Now I just hope their rooms with bone beds, cabinets, chests, statues, weapon racks and armor stands do not attract as many raiders as the food did...

On farming, what seeds to you recommend me to bring? And did you managed to use the squigs? I can't get the breeders to reproduce, at least not quicker than the wolves (aka before the dwarfs show up).

Edit: I have a defensive plan. I will make two of my bridges (the one over the river and one at the largest land side, as I am always embarking at warm rivers. Not worrying about drinks and permanent water moats), instead of the usual 3x3 bridges over the moat, three individual bridges (possibly longer) side by side operating separately. So, during the sieges that I can win, I will lower only one of those three one square thin bridges, so the enemies come at me in a line to face my soldiers. It is the closest of a kill corridor I can make above ground without interfering with the caravans. Gotta put some tactics there. But hopefully, by keeping the values down, I will not have to worry too much.

For illustration purpose:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Each one of those lines will be connected to a diferent lever, so I can have as much control over the influx as possible.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 11:45:22 pm by RodriguesSting »
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smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #503 on: March 05, 2015, 11:58:50 pm »

Go with wolves for a guard animal.  (sabrecats are probably better but breed too slow and are expensive).

Squig ranching is good for a lot of things if you don't mind a bit of micromanagement, but growlers are just disposable guard animals for alerting on ambushes, they're not really great fighters.  They are egg layers by the way.  TBH I'm not sure why in retrospect, I have no idea if that's appropriate in terms of WH40k canon squigs.  Anyway, they're pretty good as a source of eggs for your fort.

RodriguesSting

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #504 on: March 06, 2015, 12:03:23 am »

They are egg layers by the way.



Well that explains my breeding problem.

Well, it would make more sense for them to just spontaneously grow out of the ground, as every ork and their ecosystems are fungal life forms. Squigs are rather small, so I doubt they will wield enough meat, bones or leather to make their farming specially desirable for orcs. Adding nestbox and egg forbiding to the equation just makes it harder to pick them.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 12:08:20 am by RodriguesSting »
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Gamerlord

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #505 on: March 06, 2015, 12:08:55 am »

Yeah I spent months before realising that they were egglayers. Just remove the tag from the raws.

smakemupagus

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #506 on: March 06, 2015, 12:23:54 am »

>> Squigs are rather small, so I doubt they will wield enough meat, bones or leather to make their farming specially desirable for orcs.

Their uses are wool, vermin hunting, disposable guard critters for revealing ambushes, and (well) eggs.  For meat bones & leather you would go for Aurochs or even wolves I think.  We've already discussed some changes & additions to animals for Reborn.

>> Adding nestbox and egg forbiding to the equation just makes it harder to pick them.

Huh, that sounds complicated?  I just lock the door when I want to let some critters breed.

RodriguesSting

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #507 on: March 06, 2015, 10:31:50 am »

>> Adding nestbox and egg forbiding to the equation just makes it harder to pick them.

Huh, that sounds complicated?  I just lock the door when I want to let some critters breed.

Eh, design, I forgot about that.

Still, food is not a problem (unless I use them for food sources during a siege), I would rather take the bulls to assure resources or the wolves to some day train them. Well, I am going with farming for the next fort. What seeds do you guys recommend? Something that grows fast and can be used in grog, if possible.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 10:33:37 am by RodriguesSting »
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Zuzu Reish

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #508 on: March 06, 2015, 12:03:37 pm »

On farming, what seeds to you recommend me to bring? And did you managed to use the squigs? I can't get the breeders to reproduce, at least not quicker than the wolves (aka before the dwarfs show up).

I never really bring seeds or plants, in general I like to build my farm system from the ground up by foraging and trading. A lot of 'wild' plants grow year-round, and can used for a variety of purposes.

In planning an embark, though, I'd opt for versatility: for example, both strawberries / prickle berries can be eaten and brewed; both pig tails / rope reeds can be brewed and processed into thread; plump helmets can be eaten, brewed, AND milled into dye for a textile industry.

Boreal plants are comparatively valuable as crops, but they can only be used for food/drink, and only have one planting season (autumn, if you plant them in winter they'll die when spring hits).

Farmable trees are always good, and can be especially useful in the more difficult biomes.

And don't forget hivekeeping! A hivekeeper can supplement your food, brewing, textile, crafting, and weapon (poison) industries.




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RodriguesSting

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode
« Reply #509 on: March 06, 2015, 07:50:50 pm »

Oh jesus... where should I even begin? Well, this was probably my most successful embark so far, but the latest occurrences really mined out my will to go on with it.

To begin with, it is been like two entire years, and I been have never, ever besieged. Really, I am speechless, no dwarfs, no gnomes, no humans, no one. Not a single time, a siege banner. Truly, truly amazing. Though it made me lax out a bit and, in the end, caused quite a tragedy.

Second off, due to my single bone carver working non stop to produce blocks for my walls and furniture, he got legendary status quite quickly, and was pretty much farting out masterwork furniture. Even with lavish meals at minimum, my orcs were consistently happy. Simply great.

I was attacked by werebeasts twice. One came for but as soon as it was crossing the bridge I pulled the lever and it fell in the water, returning to the original form (a kobold). The second one attacked a shaggy mumak calf and returned back to the original form (the/a heremit) mid fight, getting gored in the process. So I would guess they are not as scary as I expected at first.

Just by the end I learned how many ways I can save up on wood. I can use the Crematorium to burn off vermin remains and body parts to produce my ash, and the boneyard to produce Large Pots to replace barrels. If I just learned this sooner. But still, I will use wood for my lamellar and for carchoal (in case I don't find any coal), so all that saving up will not be in vain, as my biggest wood drain were barrels.

And I really, really need to use sentries. Not even kidding, I could have avoided many werewolves sneaking on me and thieves, but most of all, an elven ambush of pickdancers invaded my fort, attacking a caravan. Only one from my two warriors (remember the whole laxing on defense thing) survived, and probably maimed, and I lost my bonecarver and some random orcs. But the bonecarver death is the one that stung the most.

Well, that being said, I am way more confident now on embarking a less forested embark next time. I can as well just skip lamellar completely and go for metalworking, just gotta remember to bring in an anvil. No need to rush walls if I keep down low, as a moat will probably do against early ambushes. Unless I churn out an artifact early. In any case, save up on wood, take a stream, make sure it is a hot biome, and I will be set for another trial. In the end, I learned a lot. It was totally worth it.
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