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[Gatallorsith]

Thx slay, seems to work

[Gatallorsith]

Ok seriously, is there something wrong in having a map with shallow+deep metalS and having only these ores?



I'm also in a mountain+other boome.
Unfortunately I only checked after hours and hours of gameplay, I was pretty sure to find..you know..some ore other than tin and copper, considering the amount this mod should have.
A problem with the map generation?

[slay_mithos]

wah, adamantine starting at z 104, and in theory surface around 144-147, that's quite the compact world you have there.
What preset did you use?

As for deep metals, I think at least Malchite and Aluminium should qualify (present as deep as 94, 10 z levels lower than the highest adamantine, and very close to the bottom (89, 1 for the red bedrock, 3 for the magma sea, and you are there)

[Gatallorsith]

This..I only touched these values, nothing else. It seems I cannot get a normal game on df, ffs.

[Niveras]

Ok seriously, is there something wrong in having a map with shallow+deep metalS and having only these ores?



I'm also in a mountain+other boome.
Unfortunately I only checked after hours and hours of gameplay, I was pretty sure to find..you know..some ore other than tin and copper, considering the amount this mod should have.
A problem with the map generation?

Nothing in MDF changes how world building works in terms of ore distribution, since that's not accessible to the raws. Well, you can define how many things there are and where they're found, but it's still up to worldgen what layers actually generate and what it puts, from the available options, in those layers.

The most recent release set the mineral scarcity up to 400 from the 100 of previous releases, but I don't think that option affects variety, only quantity.

So yes, it's a "problem" of world gen but it's not something anyone can easily mod.

wah, adamantine starting at z 104, and in theory surface around 144-147, that's quite the compact world you have ther

I find upping the minimum elevation from 0 to ~80 (or even as high as 95) helps in that regard. It seems to me that what happens is that caverns can't intersect with ocean layers, so what happens is that all across the world, layers are at least as deep as the bottom of the ocean before you ever get to the first cavern. And of course, if you embark at a higher elevation versus near the ocean, you might have a couple dozen layers to go before hitting sea level to begin with. But since any elevation lower than 100 is used as ocean, you don't necessarily need the default 100 that it allots.

*Observations subject to dis-proof. Given the natural land elevations range from 100 to 300 before they turn into mountains (with mountains being 301-399, 400+ being peaks), it is entirely possible that deep embarks prior to hitting the caverns (and subsequently anything below them) are simply a result of embarking at high elevations - which would happen if one has a preference for embarking on or near mountains themselves.

[smakemupagus]

tin and copper is bronze of course, just as good as iron, and incidentally it's available in such quantity that you'll get a decent amount of orichalcum by smelting it.
silver and gold is plentiful enough, and the galena veins will probably contain mithril clusters  too.

>>  I was pretty sure to find..you know..some ore other than tin and copper

the only thing missing is iron, right?

[slay_mithos]

This..I only touched these values, nothing else. It seems I cannot get a normal game on df, ffs.

Well, you are using the vanilla presets, with an heavily modded install, it's bound to make a few odd things here and there.

If you want a "normal" MDF experience, I'd recommend the "many biomes" preset, or at least one of the named presets (not "small", "medium" or "large" ones).
They are tailored to catter for the added civs, have more rock layers on average (higher minimum layers between caves), and way more ores (ore rarity set to 400, nearly the minimum, meaning a lot more ores than the default).

But is there such a thing as a normal DF game anyway?

[Gatallorsith]

@slay: I just wanted to create a "balanced" world and\or maps to play..not too compact or whatever the problems are here. As you can see I've modified the values in the profile, but probably it isn't enough.
Is there a list of things to modify to have proper maps\world creation? I mean things like what Niveras suggested (modify min height)

 

the only thing missing is iron, right?

Yes you're probably right, my bad. I didn't realize the other were all alloys.

[Gatallorsith]

wah, adamantine starting at z 104, and in theory surface around 144-147, that's quite the compact world you have ther

I find upping the minimum elevation from 0 to ~80 (or even as high as 95) helps in that regard. It seems to me that what happens is that caverns can't intersect with ocean layers, so what happens is that all across the world, layers are at least as deep as the bottom of the ocean before you ever get to the first cavern. And of course, if you embark at a higher elevation versus near the ocean, you might have a couple dozen layers to go before hitting sea level to begin with. But since any elevation lower than 100 is used as ocean, you don't necessarily need the default 100 that it allots.

*Observations subject to dis-proof. Given the natural land elevations range from 100 to 300 before they turn into mountains (with mountains being 301-399, 400+ being peaks), it is entirely possible that deep embarks prior to hitting the caverns (and subsequently anything below them) are simply a result of embarking at high elevations - which would happen if one has a preference for embarking on or near mountains themselves.

Ok, to be sure I've understood correctly: you shorten the min elevation so that, since caverns can't intersect with oceans, there is going to be more space to "distribuite" the "non oceans" layers into?
And just so that I know, how should a "non compact" world look like?

PS: I had the embark at 143 and hit  1st cavern at 128. The cavern's height was 5 or 6 tiles, nothing more.

[Disco]

In addition to missing glazes, there seems to be a missing reaction in the Alchemist lab. There's no way to go from Chrome to Wolfram.

[Gatallorsith]

Just to update my "issues" with the world gen, I used perfectworld and fine tuned some parameters: came out a world way better that all the last ones, balanced, and without the latest issues i had.
Here the details:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:CUSTOM MEDIUM]
   [SEED:k4Q8yE2eAUM0aQ8kya60]
   [HISTORY_SEED:CaieS0WCS4qscSqSUK2q]
   [NAME_SEED:oAisQ6yGs2Wu4Weu6QIg]
   [CREATURE_SEED:yIUsQMmUQUsc0EEqCoAU]
   [DIM:129:129]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1274]
   [END_YEAR:300]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:100:50]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
   [ELEVATION:80:400:401:401]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:400]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:100]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:150]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:200]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:25]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:26]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:26]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:26]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:26]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:52]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:52]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:52]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:4]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:26]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:50:100:0]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:50:100:0]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:200]
   [RIVER_MINS:100:100]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:85]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:10]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:20]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:50]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:25]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:50]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:100]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:150]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:32]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
   [SITE_CAP:1040]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

Oh and to avoid posting again, I had a question from my last game..do you know where can i find the stockpiles for papar\vellum\..., for ink, books, glue. I found and activated some entries but with no results.

[Niveras]

wah, adamantine starting at z 104, and in theory surface around 144-147, that's quite the compact world you have ther

I find upping the minimum elevation from 0 to ~80 (or even as high as 95) helps in that regard. It seems to me that what happens is that caverns can't intersect with ocean layers, so what happens is that all across the world, layers are at least as deep as the bottom of the ocean before you ever get to the first cavern. And of course, if you embark at a higher elevation versus near the ocean, you might have a couple dozen layers to go before hitting sea level to begin with. But since any elevation lower than 100 is used as ocean, you don't necessarily need the default 100 that it allots.

*Observations subject to dis-proof. Given the natural land elevations range from 100 to 300 before they turn into mountains (with mountains being 301-399, 400+ being peaks), it is entirely possible that deep embarks prior to hitting the caverns (and subsequently anything below them) are simply a result of embarking at high elevations - which would happen if one has a preference for embarking on or near mountains themselves.

Ok, to be sure I've understood correctly: you shorten the min elevation so that, since caverns can't intersect with oceans, there is going to be more space to "distribuite" the "non oceans" layers into?
And just so that I know, how should a "non compact" world look like?

PS: I had the embark at 143 and hit  1st cavern at 128. The cavern's height was 5 or 6 tiles, nothing more.

I did some simple tests to check myself before giving a clearer example, and it's clear that I am 100% wrong. This is implied in your own post, but when I tried two separate embarks on the same world, one embark (near a mountain starting at about 150z), the caverns began at around 139, while a second embark next to the ocean (starting at 100z), the caverns started at 90. So clearly caverns can exist before the lowest point of the ocean.

So just ignore anything I said in that regard.

[slay_mithos]

As for why the caves are usually different than vanilla ones (not just creatures/tiles), it's because the presets are made so that the caves are usually on less z-levels, and less occurences of the "no plants or moss" problem, along with less "full water" caves too.

Most importantly, they also have more layers as a minimum between caves, before the first, and between cave 3 and the lava sea.

This is something many players tends to do even on vanilla, because it gives more "safe" layers, and make the cavern layouts more manageable by land.

[arbarbonif]

I'm in a nice hot swamp.  So I got a Arcane Protector and a second level water mage in migration waves.  Naturally I put them both in the military.  The water mage freezes to death in the first fight, having no combat logs.  The arcane protector freezes to death while watching the marksman shooting succubi in the pit, only combat log being him buffing everyone.  I'm thinking this is a problem...

Does the arcane protector's buff spell use an evaporating boulder that accidentally freezes the target (or caster) to death?  At this point the only magic user I have ever had that was net beneficial in a combat situation are air mages.  And even then they need to be with only other air users, or they end up entrapping your forces as well.

Air : Webs alot, which is nice.
Earth : Kill their basilisks with the dust and give themselves bad thoughts from being caught in cave ins from the dust  (went from ecstatic to miserable in their first fight).
Fire : Light the universe on fire as well.
Water : Freezes self to death.
Arcane Protector : Freezes self to death (haven't had other two white mages).
Lich : Makes you kill everything twice since everything it kills gets raised as an enemy (though had no problems doing it).
Vampire : Eats other dwarves.
Haven't made a demonbound.

I'm thinking it is time to turn mages off entirely...  (This is still in 5.10 btw)

[Arcvasti]

I thought Fire/Water mages had fixedtemp to avoid freezing/melting?