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Author Topic: Hephaestus No Longer Exists: Crater thread.  (Read 191502 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #690 on: October 14, 2014, 01:42:57 pm »

Anton Chernozorov

As in one integrated into the avatar?

As in one scaled up to fit the Avatar like the regular one fits the Battlesuit.


Anton sends the weapon specifications and VR testing footage to Simus and Saint.

"Developing a new weapon here. Opinions?"
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 02:53:29 pm by Sean Mirrsen »
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #691 on: October 14, 2014, 04:26:24 pm »

((Huh.  When I think of Gussets, I think of motorcycle jackets, not lingerie.  And yes, this thing has weird proportions- I've been visualizing it as similar to the Portal 2 Atlas robot, except sleeker and armored, with a larger central sphere.))

Saint replies to Anton quickly "Interesting concept.  It seems to work pretty well, although I've never been a big fan of melee weapons.  I think it'll certainly get mileage being purchased simply as cheap insurance against enemy battlesuits.  It won't supplant space magic in that role, but a lot of people are justifiably afraid of space magic, so your plasma stake is a useful weapon.  Also, why are you calling it a 'jet magnum'?  Calling it a 'Plasma Stake' is both descriptive and sounds good- jet magnum just sounds like some teenager's idea of a superhero name."

((Also, it prevented me from having Saint mishear you as saying 'Plasma Steak' :( ))

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #692 on: October 14, 2014, 05:35:38 pm »

Spoiler: suit (click to show/hide)



Quote
then you need another token for the shocking graspers.
Do you really need the shocking graspers, or would a regular generator (which a lot of people already have) also work?
Doesn't converting the lasrifle to being able to accept the grasper's power also cost a token?
Can this thing also be added to other laser weapons? Could one get a cutting laser electrolaser for a token (or two, with an extra (small-ish) generator)?


Sean, I think I'll add to the chorus saying that 'plasma stake/lance' is a much better name, very descriptive. Remember, less is more, and with this the name alone gives a good idea of what it does and how it works.

Quote
Well, the main problem with making pods removable is there's a lot of mechanical stuff that goes with them, the stuff that lets them redirect themselves and change orientation to maneuver. Those are usually hard mounted onto the exoskeleton because of the force of the direction changes, which might otherwise tear them free. So you'd need a really heavy duty mounting system and probably some good tools and a helper to take them off and on. It's not just gonna be a snap on, snap off thing.
Yes, vindication! *self-congratulatory smugness*
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:45:26 pm by Radio Controlled »
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Parisbre56

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #693 on: October 14, 2014, 05:51:47 pm »

((Some of the other things you hephaestus guys have created have names that are either long, hard to remember or non-descriptive. I don't think people are going to complain about "jet magnum" being added to that list.))

Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #694 on: October 14, 2014, 05:57:53 pm »

((Some of the other things you hephaestus guys have created have names that are either long, hard to remember or non-descriptive. I don't think people are going to complain about "jet magnum" being added to that list.))
((I'm kinda happy in retrospect I was able to restrain myself and just name the thing 'chem thrower'. Breaks the mold in terms of tinker names, funnily enough.))
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #695 on: October 14, 2014, 07:32:50 pm »

Quote from: Radio_Controlled
Do you really need the shocking graspers, or would a regular generator (which a lot of people already have) also work?

Well, yes, any generator that can power a laser rifle would have the same amount of power, and therefore work fine too.  Arguably, if you had a huge generator that gives twelve TPU, you could fire it indefinitely.  But the genner has to cost something, so the point is moot.

Quote from: Radio_Controlled
Doesn't converting the lasrifle to being able to accept the grasper's power also cost a token?

I'd say not, if we made all laser rifles start with the modification.  It's just changing the wiring to the hilt and putting some conductive stuff on the hilt so that it can receive power.  Not putting the battery stuff there should offset that minor cost, and the fact that a free battery isn't included should logically cover anything left over.  if we didn't do that, then yes, it would cost another token, because that's the minimum denomination.

I think you probably remembered me saying 'effectively making the laser rifle cost an extra token', and forgot that the extra token is the price of the graspers.

Quote from: Radio_Controlled
Can this thing also be added to other laser weapons? Could one get a cutting laser electrolaser for a token (or two, with an extra (small-ish) generator)?

In theory, yes.  The exact same kit probably wouldn't work for anything much different from a laser rifle, but to my knowledge there's nothing preventing you from using the same electrolaser idea with a Cutting Laser or Spectr (Although one wonders why you'd need to use it with that).


Since you seem quite against my price of one token for the electrolaser kit, due to how many questions you've asked, what is your preferred price?  And what about the graspers?

@Naming patterns

Well, Spectr is two letters short of "spectrum", so that's kinda descriptive.  Technically, the Testament has "Light Shard Weapon" as part of it's name.  "Shocking Graspers" is only a working name, but that's about as descriptive as it gets, and I'm thinking of keeping it.  It's a only semi-functional bastard of a weapon that no one would buy, but my old SS/BEARD-9 was fairly descriptive: "Steve Saint's Battlesuit Elimination And Recovery Device" and it costed nine tokens.  Sean's Gungnir & Red Hand have "electrolaser" in their name.

...Also, I thought the 'chem thrower' was just a vaguely modified version of Pancaek's gun.  It'd almost be rude if you named it.

PyroDesu

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #696 on: October 14, 2014, 09:39:55 pm »

Simus is going to oversee construction of the manip facility unless otherwise specified.
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Radio Controlled

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #697 on: October 15, 2014, 04:54:10 am »

Syv, some council members are of the opinion that the idea of using conductive graspers (instead of a cable) for supplying power isn't the best idea. They mentioned "possible significant transmission losses between glove and grip (any foreign matter on the grip, bad contact between glove and grip) with the excess doing God-knows-what" as a big reason, as I did before. So again, how adamant are you on using that particular system for transferring power, as opposed to more conventional means like a cable?

Quote
It's just changing the wiring to the hilt and putting some conductive stuff on the hilt so that it can receive power.
Have you done electrical work before in RL? Because it wouldn't be as easy as you present it here I'm afraid. SAy you're on a dusty planet, meaning that inevitably, dust gathers on the glove and hilt. What do you think happens when you try to use the thing? Still 100% (a pipe dream in and of itself) power transfer? Will the dust get burned and form a coating on it? Will that mean the electricity chooses to easy way out and just runs along the surface back inside the glove to close the electrical circle? Hell, what prevents it from doing that anyways? Do you need to carefully align certain patches on the glove to certain parts on the hilt?

Quote
I think you probably remembered me saying 'effectively making the laser rifle cost an extra token', and forgot that the extra token is the price of the graspers.
The graspers are only a token? Really? I thought they'd be two at least (1 for generator, 1 for gloves at minimum). Or am I missing something here?

Also, please be more clear in the future when talking about costs whether it's about adapting existing stuff (such as modifying an existing laser rifle to accept the system) or wholly new things.

Finally, if it works like you say (3 tokens for laser rifle+graspers) then that means batteries are entirely useless, right? Now you get a 30s battery for a token, here you get infinite shooting time for a token. 

Quote
Since you seem quite against my price of one token for the electrolaser kit, due to how many questions you've asked, what is your preferred price?  And what about the graspers?

Oh no, I'm just asking questions, I'm not inherently 'against' anything. I might think the idea isn't optimal or that there are problems that weren't addressed yet, but no 'I hate this idea/person, let's attack it'.

Electrokit itself seems reasonable for a token (though I find the base concept of the 'electrolaser' as it is rather dubious, as noted before), but perhaps impractical, due to being connected to the weapon's power supply, meaning one has to start counting and calculating when determining how many seconds would be used up in a shot. And then if someone wants to use it for another weapon, it doesn't get easier. But adding a generator to let it power itself drives up the cost, making it unviable perhaps. On the other hand, laser rifles are supposed to be really weak, but this 1-token upgrade might then push the power up too much (for the single token one pays for it).

Hmm. Maybe remove wiring to weapon battery and rechargeable battery, and add small 3s-worth capacitor and the weakest generator available, then say it costs A tokens (i think 2 is reasonable?), and lets one have a turn (2/3s) of electrofire every x (say, 4) turns. And for y token (say, 2 again) extra it's upgraded to generator (and capacitator removed) that can continually provide power to sparkgap, but only the sparkgap.

Of course, if pw has no problem with complexity and cost of it as it is, you could keep it like it is. Just my personal thoughts on the matter (rest council still rather indisposed).

Quote
Well, Spectr is two letters short of "spectrum", so that's kinda descriptive.  Technically, the Testament has "Light Shard Weapon" as part of it's name.  "Shocking Graspers" is only a working name, but that's about as descriptive as it gets, and I'm thinking of keeping it.  It's a only semi-functional bastard of a weapon that no one would buy, but my old SS/BEARD-9 was fairly descriptive: "Steve Saint's Battlesuit Elimination And Recovery Device" and it costed nine tokens.  Sean's Gungnir & Red Hand have "electrolaser" in their name.
When I say 'name', I mean the thing people will actually use in-game, not their official title. Nobody will say 'Testament Light Shard Weapon', they'll just say 'Testament' or 'shard weapon'. One of them is descriptive, one says nothing really. And if you asked a buddy of yours what he thought a 'spektr' did, you think he'd have a clue? Not dissing on the name Sean, just noticing the trend.

I fully agree with just calling them 'shocking graspers', it's a good name.

Quote
...Also, I thought the 'chem thrower' was just a vaguely modified version of Pancaek's gun.  It'd almost be rude if you named it.
Nope, independent project at first, later merged with Pan's thing to increase value of both things and streamline. Also, he told me in dj chat once that I could rename the thing, as long as it wasn't 'Pink Puppy Molester' or something like it. We just came to consensus about changing it from 'namite' to 'chem'.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 04:58:23 am by Radio Controlled »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #698 on: October 15, 2014, 05:45:13 am »

Spoiler: Re: MACS suit (click to show/hide)

Quote
Sean, I think I'll add to the chorus saying that 'plasma stake/lance' is a much better name, very descriptive. Remember, less is more, and with this the name alone gives a good idea of what it does and how it works.

((Well, you know me and my references. Can't live without 'em. :) I agree that the name is kind of silly (it's as if it is something named in English by a Japanese robot anime writer), but I also think that it's important to have a moniker you can use to distinguish, i.e. "a" plasma stake weapon in general, from "the" specific kind of plasma stake weapon, so a name, even if somewhat silly and not very descriptive, is important.))

Quote
Quote
Well, the main problem with making pods removable is there's a lot of mechanical stuff that goes with them, the stuff that lets them redirect themselves and change orientation to maneuver. Those are usually hard mounted onto the exoskeleton because of the force of the direction changes, which might otherwise tear them free. So you'd need a really heavy duty mounting system and probably some good tools and a helper to take them off and on. It's not just gonna be a snap on, snap off thing.
Yes, vindication! *self-congratulatory smugness*

((Don't worry, I'll be working on remedying that shortly. ^_^))
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Pancaek

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #699 on: October 15, 2014, 12:13:51 pm »

Quote from:  Pancaek -> Steve Saint
Oh hey, you're working on heph as well? Last time we saw each other you couldn't even program a helmet cam without making an entire squad blind, funny old world we live in right?

Yeah, I guess getting you to design something special was too much to ask. You must be swamped with work, what with all that new tech you're churning out.

I'm going to have to go with a stealth suit. I'm not really that interested in another nyars artifact, really. I'm currently looking into stealth options with the AM here as well, but if you could send me a message with possible suits you guys could exchange with me that would be super.

Love,

Pancaek
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #700 on: October 15, 2014, 12:14:49 pm »

Spoiler: Shocking Graspers (click to show/hide)

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #701 on: October 16, 2014, 04:18:31 am »

I think I have a solution for the modular suit that will satisfy all parties:
Make it a volunteer system, where the "right thing" to do is to donate unused modules to the MACS Fund to be taken by others.
Sure, early adopters (read:veterans) will benefit less from the system, since they'll be the ones buying new modules and giving away the ones they are not using, but it will eventually achieve its intended purpose of being cheaply modular and newbie friendly.

There are ways to make this better for early adopters and ensuring it won't be abused by newbies without the right stats by instituting a tiered license system (can only get modules from your tier or lower) where the license cost is given to the MACS fund. Or maybe by making it so that taking a module from the MACS fund without exchanging it for a similar module requires the donation of a small amount of tokens or something similar. Those left over tokens can then be used (probably by veterans) to help buy modules that are currently not in the fund.

I think the above is both viable, doesn't change or decrease the value of the original system, doesn't end up with non-collectable tokens (because in the system proposed by Sean someone can have a MACS debt but not the tokens to pay for it) and doesn't require piecewise to get involved since it is all player managed. Only problem really is that it depends on other people willing to share and help others, but I think we can manage to do that.

EDIT: Oh, and any prototypes you send would also help with the "Early Adopters" problem, since they'd essentially be free equipment added to the fund.

EDIT2: Kinda like taxation for MACS usage, now that I think about it. Another step to our transition to a communist regime.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 07:37:24 am by Parisbre56 »
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syvarris

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #702 on: October 16, 2014, 10:11:03 pm »

1.Might as well look at what conventional tech stealth tech exists.  Is there anything promising which I might be able to work with?

2.Specifically, I want to find something which would render a person mostly invisible in the visible and infrared light spectrums.  More would be better, but those are the necessary ones.

'Heavy' robotic body stuff below.  The spoiler has condensed information from the previous update.

3.Run the design through some VR combat tests, especially urban and indoors combat.  Are there any notable issues that it has?

4.In particular, does the seven foot height hinder it much indoors?  If so, shorten the legs a bit.  Test how that compares.

5.Just because I'm curious, if this thing is seven feet, how tall is a normal battlesuit?

6.Also, how large is the central torso?  All it contains is the brain case, and whatever important systems a battlesuit has, like computers and the generator.


((Hey, Radio & Committee, unless I missed something, you haven't reviewed my mini battle suit robobody thing.  The above spoiler contains all the condensed information.  If you want me to name a price first, I'd tentatively put it at sixteen or seventeen tokens; It's better than an MK.III for most purposes (although it requires you to get your head chopped off), but it's still quite inferior to a battlesuit.  It's only real benefit over a BS is the fact that you can go almost anywhere the rest of your team can go.

I do intend for it to be an armory item, even though it's mostly designed for sods.  I think a lot of people would like something similar to a battlesuit, that doesn't greatly restrict their play.))

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #703 on: October 17, 2014, 04:17:46 am »

Anton Chernozorov

Well, the main problem with making pods removable is there's a lot of mechanical stuff that goes with them, the stuff that lets them redirect themselves and change orientation to maneuver. Those are usually hard mounted onto the exoskeleton because of the force of the direction changes, which might otherwise tear them free. So you'd need a really heavy duty mounting system and probably some good tools and a helper to take them off and on. It's not just gonna be a snap on, snap off thing.

Well, snap on/snap off wasn't going to be a thing for torso mounts anyway (a rocket pack doing the "snap off" midflight would probably be bad), but I thought that the mounting process could be reasonably automated to allow the wearer to attach and detach the torso pack by himself. Heavy-duty mechanical clamps and servo-driven bolts on either the pack or the suit. Or perhaps a dedicated "assembly stand" like the one that assembles the Iron Man suit in the first film. Slot the module into place via click mounts, and go stand in the booth for all the bolts to be tightened.

Additionally, I was thinking of redesigning the rocket pods. The Mk3 has more than just its rocket pods, obviously because the pods lack sufficient articulation by themselves to provide the necessary flight agility. What if the rockets were instead mounted on synthetic arms?


Spoiler: Rough sketch (click to show/hide)
That's structurals in yellow, muscle in blue, propulsion components in red. The pods would be able to direct themselves every which way much like you can point a hand anywhere around you, and with two pods properly controlled you would be able to achieve the requisite agility even without additional verniers (even though the pods do have several, mostly for smaller adjustments). The fuel tank being a separate entity from the pods would make it easier to armor, although the limited throughput of the fuel lines would probably affect maximum acceleration. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs. On the plus side, you'll also have the dubiously useful ability, wasting some fuel to introduce someone's face to the Kzinti Lesson at close range. :P

Would this system be an adequate replacement for the existing Mk3's rockets? More importantly, would it work as well? Or at all?

In the meantime, create a backpack version of a Raduga FEL, in VR. Since the design consists of several parts with the beam being looped around anyway, see about making the focusing array separate from the main weapon, mounting it on a gimbal with an array of moving lenses ensuring that the beam exits where it needs to. The gimbal with the focusing array would allow to fire the weapon over the shoulder while the main mass of it is mounted compactly on the back, reducing overall strength requirement (and freeing up a few hands).

Just as an experiment, see if it's possible for a human to at all operate with a dual backpack Raduga, a laser over each shoulder. Obvious aiming issues aside, how much strength would one need to be able to even walk with it?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 06:54:36 am by Sean Mirrsen »
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piecewise

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Re: Hephaestus Techland: Big Brother is Watching
« Reply #704 on: October 17, 2014, 01:29:20 pm »

Anton Chernozorov

As in one integrated into the avatar?

As in one scaled up to fit the Avatar like the regular one fits the Battlesuit.


Anton sends the weapon specifications and VR testing footage to Simus and Saint.

"Developing a new weapon here. Opinions?"
Same sorta deal but more powerful. Wider spread, same range though.

Simus is going to oversee construction of the manip facility unless otherwise specified.
As in physically going up to see it happen? Or just overseeing?

1.Might as well look at what conventional tech stealth tech exists.  Is there anything promising which I might be able to work with?

2.Specifically, I want to find something which would render a person mostly invisible in the visible and infrared light spectrums.  More would be better, but those are the necessary ones.

'Heavy' robotic body stuff below.  The spoiler has condensed information from the previous update.

3.Run the design through some VR combat tests, especially urban and indoors combat.  Are there any notable issues that it has?

4.In particular, does the seven foot height hinder it much indoors?  If so, shorten the legs a bit.  Test how that compares.

5.Just because I'm curious, if this thing is seven feet, how tall is a normal battlesuit?

6.Also, how large is the central torso?  All it contains is the brain case, and whatever important systems a battlesuit has, like computers and the generator.


((Hey, Radio & Committee, unless I missed something, you haven't reviewed my mini battle suit robobody thing.  The above spoiler contains all the condensed information.  If you want me to name a price first, I'd tentatively put it at sixteen or seventeen tokens; It's better than an MK.III for most purposes (although it requires you to get your head chopped off), but it's still quite inferior to a battlesuit.  It's only real benefit over a BS is the fact that you can go almost anywhere the rest of your team can go.

I do intend for it to be an armory item, even though it's mostly designed for sods.  I think a lot of people would like something similar to a battlesuit, that doesn't greatly restrict their play.))



1.Like I said it's mostly light bending metamaterials or microcameras. The most promising right now is the light bending stuff, since it is cheaper to produce in bulk. The problem is that it doesn't work quite as well as the microcamera versions and it's pretty flimsy.

2. Like I said, microcameras are best then, but they won't help you in the infrared. Just visual. I suppose you could just use thermal insulation to hide from heat cameras though.

3. Mostly just the expected ones: Size, not being terribly nimble, the sort of thing you can't really fix when you're that big.
4. It's alright in most conditions.
5. I forget. something like 3 meters. The avatar was 5 if I remember. The real bulk of the battlesuit is in width, not height.
6. Not that big. Small enough to get through doorways, but still a bit chubby.


Anton Chernozorov

Well, the main problem with making pods removable is there's a lot of mechanical stuff that goes with them, the stuff that lets them redirect themselves and change orientation to maneuver. Those are usually hard mounted onto the exoskeleton because of the force of the direction changes, which might otherwise tear them free. So you'd need a really heavy duty mounting system and probably some good tools and a helper to take them off and on. It's not just gonna be a snap on, snap off thing.

Well, snap on/snap off wasn't going to be a thing for torso mounts anyway (a rocket pack doing the "snap off" midflight would probably be bad), but I thought that the mounting process could be reasonably automated to allow the wearer to attach and detach the torso pack by himself. Heavy-duty mechanical clamps and servo-driven bolts on either the pack or the suit. Or perhaps a dedicated "assembly stand" like the one that assembles the Iron Man suit in the first film. Slot the module into place via click mounts, and go stand in the booth for all the bolts to be tightened.

Additionally, I was thinking of redesigning the rocket pods. The Mk3 has more than just its rocket pods, obviously because the pods lack sufficient articulation by themselves to provide the necessary flight agility. What if the rockets were instead mounted on synthetic arms?


Spoiler: Rough sketch (click to show/hide)
That's structurals in yellow, muscle in blue, propulsion components in red. The pods would be able to direct themselves every which way much like you can point a hand anywhere around you, and with two pods properly controlled you would be able to achieve the requisite agility even without additional verniers (even though the pods do have several, mostly for smaller adjustments). The fuel tank being a separate entity from the pods would make it easier to armor, although the limited throughput of the fuel lines would probably affect maximum acceleration. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs. On the plus side, you'll also have the dubiously useful ability, wasting some fuel to introduce someone's face to the Kzinti Lesson at close range. :P

Would this system be an adequate replacement for the existing Mk3's rockets? More importantly, would it work as well? Or at all?

In the meantime, create a backpack version of a Raduga FEL, in VR. Since the design consists of several parts with the beam being looped around anyway, see about making the focusing array separate from the main weapon, mounting it on a gimbal with an array of moving lenses ensuring that the beam exits where it needs to. The gimbal with the focusing array would allow to fire the weapon over the shoulder while the main mass of it is mounted compactly on the back, reducing overall strength requirement (and freeing up a few hands).

Just as an experiment, see if it's possible for a human to at all operate with a dual backpack Raduga, a laser over each shoulder. Obvious aiming issues aside, how much strength would one need to be able to even walk with it?

Automated sure. Though you'd need a special "Iron man" sorta machine to do it. Unless you want to make this thing super complex and able to do it on it's own. Oh hey, you said the iron man thing too, I didn't even read that far down. Yeah, that.

The MKIII's rockets are basically articulated fuel pods with a nozzle on the bottom. That sort of thing would work in theory but the fuel pack would need to be much larger.

So predator laser pack?

It would be pretty dang heavy. Possible if they're a muscle beast, but not easy.
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