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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - GAME OVER! SCUM WIN!  (Read 59639 times)

darkpaladin109

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Eh, I guess I'd also like a replacement, since I'm not really good at this and it's not exactly very fun for me.
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Jack A T

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Well, you two (Fniff and darkpaladin109) gave it a try.  Goodbye, and good luck in your future endeavors.

Beginner's games, being primarily meant as an opportunity for people to try the game out with a simple setup and see if they like it, tend to have higher replacement rates than other games.  Some people try the game, determine that it isn't for them, and leave.

At least we'll be getting one replacement soon:
So, hey. Back to mafia. I know I said I'd be back only at the end of the year, but things tend to become a lot less hectic when you stop caring too much about real life problems you can't solve. I'll be a bit free-er after next week, so I shot a PM to MOWE so I can replace in the BM and get up to speed with the game again.

Unvote.  I'll re-evaluate later today.

Tiruin: So, how's that post going?
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Tiruin

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Tiruin: So, how's that post going?
Getting to it.
Net problems earlier :x
Had advice before the many peoples asking for replacement.
Will quote Jim's words in that stead.
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Teneb

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Well, damn. I replaced in for Scripten (No idea why MOWE hasn't changed the OP or said it here, but I got the role PM), but it's sad to see so many leave at once. I'll give the thread a read and post my views, shouldn't take too long.
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Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
Quote from: Tack
What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?

borno

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Jack A T:
borno: My questions, please. 
Ah, sorry, I missed them.
To borno: I really don't think personally that tn5421 was buddying rangercado, if they were buddies why would rangercado accuse tn5421 in the first place?
Kansa: That's not what we tend to mean by "buddying."  "Buddying" basically refers to attempts to cozy up to a player, making that player both more friendly to the buddier and easier to convince.
:-[ Well, actually... I was referring to 'buddying' in the same way as Kansa, as in a scum member doesn't want to draw attention to another scum player and so doesn't really attack them at all. What would that be in Mafia terms?
borno: I'm going to take a different approach to the issue of alleged buddying.  Why is tn5421 allegedly buddying RangerCado effecting your read of Cado so much?  How exactly does someone you think is scum trying to buddy an attacker make the attacker in question scummier?
Well, I guess if they flip scum then the person they were... whatever the term ising will be cast under suspicion. But right now, it's not really affecting my read of him. I'm just noting it in case tn5421 ever dies and flips scum.
Kansa:
To borno: I really don't think personally that tn5421 was buddying rangercado, if they were buddies why would rangercado accuse tn5421 in the first place?
Since I think we were talking about the same 'buddying' (who knows anymore?), I think Jack A T's answer still applies. If RangerCado and tn5421 were scum, then they may try to bus eachother to take suspicion off of one of them I guess.
tn5421:
Could you please explain your reasoning behind saying the following?
I don't see the need to defend myself at this point in the game, as the people that are voting me are doing so for mainly nonsensical reasons.  Except for RangerCado, I think.

Sad to see all these people go, but at least one person is replacing in now. Fun fact: I think that everytime I addressed darkpaladin109, I typed in 'deathsword' instead. Luckily I caught myself eachtime before I posted. I shouldn't have that problem any more now, hopefully.
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TheDarkStar

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I can Replace if needed (if there's still a spot).
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Don't die; it's bad for your health!

it happened it happened it happen im so hyped to actually get attacked now

tn5421

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Because I don't really care about this game's outcome, borno.
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[21:23:48] <GhostFrog> bdsm is always more fun with a restraining order
[9:00:59 PM] kingdomacesbeta: Actually knowing what you're doing is overrated.

Mafia Dossier: MafiaScum Wiki - tn5421

Silthuri

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Replacement Needed!!!
« Reply #187 on: May 27, 2014, 08:15:30 pm »

Votecount:
  • darkpaladin109:
  • borno: tn5421, RangerCado (2)
  • TheDarkStar:
  • Deathsword:
  • tn5421: borno (1)
  • RangerCado:
  • Kansa:
  • Jack A T:
  • Tiruin:

Not voting: Tiruin, Kansa, darkpaladin109, Jack A T, Deathsword, TheDarkStar

Due to two/three replacements being thrown in at once, day had been mod extended to Thursday at 7 pm EST
There are no more extends available for today!


Deathsword has replaced in for Scripten!
TheDarkStar has replaced in for fniff!
darkpaladin109 has requested replacement!

Well, damn. I replaced in for Scripten (No idea why MOWE hasn't changed the OP or said it here, but I got the role PM), but it's sad to see so many leave at once. I'll give the thread a read and post my views, shouldn't take too long.
Because dummy me was waiting for a confirmation PM of some sort...  :-[
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jack A T

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:-[ Well, actually... I was referring to 'buddying' in the same way as Kansa, as in a scum member doesn't want to draw attention to another scum player and so doesn't really attack them at all. What would that be in Mafia terms?
borno: Ah, communication failures...
I can't think of a term for that behaviour at the moment, but it definitely happens at times.  Generally, this is something one looks for after one of the scum has flipped.

Now that I know what you meant by "buddying" (you seemed to be arguing based on the definition I gave), I have a new question.  You noted, as one of the examples of buddying, that tn5421 mentioned he would like to have RangerCado as a scumbuddy if he was scum.  While you did, later in the post, note that that "doesn't really count," I'm not sure how it counts at all.  Would you be so kind as to explain how that is "buddying" under the definition you used?

Alright, let's see what Tiruin, Deathsword, and TheDarkStar post.
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

TheDarkStar

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Let me read this thread; I did not follow it that well before. I'll have a proper reply after that.
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Don't die; it's bad for your health!

it happened it happened it happen im so hyped to actually get attacked now

borno

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Jack A T:
Actually, I have no idea how I cam to that conclusion. Looking back it makes no sense, as if they were scum buddies he wouldn't really have any gain from saying that. Maybe it may be your buddying, but not mine. I guess that, at the time I thought that since he was associating with him that they were... I'll just call it 'Scum friending' until someone (Tiruin?) tells me the real term. Strike through that first bit, then.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #191 on: May 28, 2014, 10:47:32 am »

Hyuuj posht coming.



Cado <3
Tiruin:[/b] Whats your take on the roster of players? Anyone you recognize who your going to be keeping an eye on? Potential skill?
I always hold no bias on the roster of players in every game I play in, despite part of my judgement saying otherwise :) (ie If I see {experienced player} and I've an inspect--or rather, something to probably clear ANY {or aid in clearing such} doubt on the player, I don't use it because experience as a primary factor) mainly due to treating other players as myself. AMorphous.
Yet some have some specific tells if metaknowledge is to be used on their alignment--this, I keep quiet in my take, and usually list hints of it in my list of reads later on.
I recognize you, Jack A T, DS, TDS...mainly everyone, to keep an eye on. :P

And on potential skill--I'd put down a universal fact. Everyone has potential. Period. If they choose to grow and learn--commonly seen in those open-minded and willing to analyze both their own styles/beliefs/self and others without bias, then its a sure sign of potential. This is also seen in those people who are narrow minded or close-minded: arguers of their own stance with little change or rather unwilling to look at other's ideas; those that have bias, whether unconsciously realized or not, still have potential.
...
Which means yeah. Everyone has the potential to grow. It's hard to explain despite my background in philosophy or psychology (or rather understanding the human mind).
But yes. Potential. :I


Jack; Hi! ^ ^
Tiruin: You recently participated in a game with this setup, but without the teaching elements: NSBM 4.  What did you learn from that game that you can apply to this game?
A few facts:
> Attitude is one thing that wins games. If you give up in times of adversity--it does nobody any good. You keep on fighting. And by fighting--I don't necessarily mean 'dirty uncouth RAWRWRWR' fighting.
There are many ways one can fight, even politely.
> Be active.
Nobody won a game by lurking. Except scum. But they've to be active to send in the Factional NK. Generally.
> Communicate.
Talk with peoples. Either interrogating stance or diplomatic/friendly stance to get info? Generally ok. But banter with people? Good! In relation to the game, though, there should be pertinence to your goal. I could ask you | hey Jack A T, what course are you into if in college and what's your favorite ice cream? Also, why ask me a question of personal reflection? It's nice, but I'm curious.
...Those questions are serious though. :p
> Don't give up.
If you're town and everyone is vote vote voting your name name naem, you should realize that as a suspect--one does not give up (yes, this includes and means the 'I give up, replace me' notion). If one dies or is not enjoying the game--then treat it as your last game and do your best according to what you know how is best to do. While that could horribly be misinterpreted, if you swear and cuss and horribly treat people in your last game, then at least we'll know your true colors ^ ^

In all seriousness, regardless of naming and theme, all games are to help you learn and NOT just the BM. The BM is like...the lounge of a great hall of Valhalla wherein all those there get acquainted with the place before they ascend delve deeper into how the game is played--forum Mafia is very different from RL Mafia where you can just go 'NO U' and have a...possibly hearty laugh from it. The BM is an introduction. A prelude for what is to come. Perform and act in ways that will develop yourself and not cause any harm to others (this does NOT mean you should lolynch yourself when you think you've got 'enough training' :I). And forum Mafia in general, is a more...well, in B12 anyway, refined(?) or pleasing for in-depth debating. Here, we cast on roles in regard to our alignments and test ourselves. Out of here, we're all peachy with each other just like best friends :D

Here, we test each other and are tested in turn. Do we lie to achieve our goals? Do we slur and slam the rest with pejoratives or swearing to get what we want? Do we exercise our minds and analyze and talk about what we see? Forum Mafia in B12 is a funny thing--it reflects much more about you than what you initially think, 100% especially so for newbies.

...And I guess that's what I've learned from it.



Scripten//Replacement for Scripten :o
I'm too late :'(
Everybody: Since this is a beginner's game, it's more likely that well-used scumtells will be less effective. What strategies do you think would be best in a situation like this, where players may not know what actions to avoid and which ones to look out for?
Really?
What if I tell you right now that I'm the Mafia Rolecop? I'm employing the scumtell of lying, but you could see it in two ways. I'm lying because I am Mafia (not necessarily the Rolecop--those are minor things you have to learn to detect when thinking about such matters in scumhunting) or I'm provoking thought in challenging your statement, or both.

But matters first. Why will well-used scumtells be...'less effective'?
What well used ones do you speak of? I feel like the reason you're asking this is to better understand the concept o_o
Wherein I usually put forward the card of 'use/treat with best discretion', but I'll try explaining it best.

Stuffs like lying or rolefishing or whatever-ever-ever scumtell, and in generally every scumtell is a scumtell because of the context. Lying is a universal scumtell--but if done in the right context, could not be a scumtell (and EVEN a towntell! :O), like say in Massclaims.

Spoiler: Take this for example (click to show/hide)
Like dat.
It is also good to append an answer to an invisible 'why' at certain points of answering a question--though without a direct 'Why', someone can get away with missing some details.

Though here? We're to teach you what may be a problem in how you play and/or train you how to play if you're totally lost.
COmmunication is linear in as much as it is vast. There's a tactic called 'Tracing' which is usually done on D2~ to see the cause of some stuffs [who is scum//vote patterns//comparing what x said to what x is doing...]

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Tiruin

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PS: One should add the term 'EBWOP' into the BM dictionary.
*nudges MOWE* ;p
Also, as a general rule, VOTING SOMEONE WITHIN SPOILERS OR WITHIN QUOTES IS NOT SOMETHING GOOD TO DO DESPITE BEING TECHNICALLY 'OK' because the mod can miss it.
...I know. That happened before :x

Also as a general note, in posts with horizontal rules, stuffs in the first part are mostly humor-ish//have that tone for me.

On asking questions directed to "Everybody"/"Everyone": This is not the best idea, as people tend to miss these.
Not really, if bolded and being the only thing in a post :P
An additional note on evaluating newbie actions: This is why I asked all the beginners except tn5421 (who has the info in his sig) about their previous Mafia experience.[...]
*looks at question asked to self*
Tiruin has attained Beginner status! \o/
Achievement, get!

tn5421
Tiruin

Don't dodge the question.
Wasn't dodging it :x Was making a quick-off reply towards Jack because my memory is fishy at times.

...Then RL kicked in. >_>
Yeah.

@Everyone: How do you feel about our chances of finding and lynching a member of the scum team day one?
Depending on how we're doing it. I don't find much merit in statistics or such regarding the D1 lynch though--its more of a situational case if its scum.



Darkpaladin109
Everyone: Who would be your ideal scum buddy, and why?
,,,This is a hard question for me. >.>
I'd say Toaster because he was my Scum IC teacher back in the days...
And he's an orange appliance. Because he's an orange appliance.
But it's more of him being a good teacher and such. He also has a nice planning mechanism and a solid way of teaching and playing Mafia.
Why'd you ask this?-
...
Ahh, sure. Replacement :/
 :-\
Though if you're a replacement, you can still play in and unless the Moderator has found a suitable replacee.

...So you're technically still playing despite having asked for a replacement.


Right. Looking at recent events now.
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Silthuri

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PS: One should add the term 'EBWOP' into the BM dictionary.
*nudges MOWE* ;p
Editededd.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tiruin

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Everyone: What is the most confusing thing regarding Mafia that you have trouble with dealing, while playing, in this game, now? Do you wish to question it in public? Could you state it, if so?

Post-typing everythingelse edit: If the replaced people can, please answer the above too.






So I'll give my reflection in a list of reads (yes this was formatted thanks to MOWE's votecount :P):

    darkpaladin109: Out of seven posts in-game, 'e started shaky, unsure, but seemingly has previous experience (unless this is his first time [and it seemingly is by my memory]) given the last paragraph here. {You're not bad at Mafia :I} And given his posts, I'd say that there is no malevolence on his part if the lack of content (in regard to personal communique) = scumtell, with said emphasis being his note to the vote here, and I could infer the justification here...but to get a better view, I'd appreciate an answer to the Everyone thing above. There is brevity, and I'm unsure if its lack of knowledge of play, or if he was...pushed too hard and got info too fast? Happens to newbies when we're usually doing this trial by fire. Some are totally lost on what to do and go with the best thing possible. Here, it doesn't feel like he's refraining or anything that says 'I'm scum and I don't know what to do', but the same could be said on 'I'm town but how do I scumhunt?'

So null.


    borno: I see the votes on him, and judge by their context. Vote pattern on, this is my basis [posts prior are..well, mostly feeling neutral to me]. He's calculating, analyzing and comparing his view on tn in a holistic manner, though that one point of tn's opinion is missed (ie He didn't ask why tn stated his suspicion like such, but jumped on him. While this could be easily explained as reaction testing...feels like a minor point). Though its not much to make a deal out of given the... feeling(?)/thought of the post.

Null
borno: Why, exactly, are you voting for tn? Compared to everyone else, why him?


    TheDarkStar/fniff: TDS hasn't posted yet other than interest, so this is all fniff!
By his 8 posts, it seems...that I'm a horrible teacher and should give up my life goal of helping people that clarifications must ensue (Null read by the way).
Fniff is quite astute in his answers: very reasonable in their case as to what a role power would do in several instances with a good grasp on the situation, while I am suspicious on this one point wherein he says 'the Mafia are new' (considering that even the ICs can be scum) [cont] {fin}, it may either be a slip or just an offhand gesture at the idea. T'would be strange, now that I think of it, if it were a scumslip, though he may have just forgotten, hence only suspicion. His level-headed attitude is admirable regarding seeing individuality over the mental composure of the mob and hypothetical LYNCH-rioteer situation.

Null to Town-leaning.

Also I'm sad to see you go...though to clarify, the note of questioning and such is to set up a conversation--most players go off a hinge and deal with it as a serious thing, and it is, but not so much that we begin playing a 'interrogator/interrogated' game. It is an idea set up to provoke communication, with differences in how it is implemented.

@fniff...Also you seriously need to post in the RTD Testing thread >_> You did sign up for my experiment..right? Or..did I take too long between turns? I in the least would request feedback, thanks. Or note to 'be auto'd by GM' would do.


    scripten/Deathsword: Y'need to post more buddy.  :P
On that note, hope everything is OK in South America!
On scripten: Of his 5 posts, noted to be is the background...Sprint isn't...muchly very well good for completely new players. For new players with a  background, sure, given that they've built their two feet for knowing all this, but not new players in that case, though a game is worth experience and if you choose to learn from it. I am very happy to see his reaction to it positively. That's a good attitude to have.
He's open-minded, and possesses a clarity of perspective in detailing what he wants to say, furthered here in honesty in regard to being new and so on here...thhough I've to question
Quote
I feel like the power roles would be at more risk of night kills
given that that is a...role instead of any person or term related to a person in particular and why it was mentioned if at all. Then stuff cut off.  :(

Null-town-ish-leaning.
Primarily because I like how you...are(?)



[cont]
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