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Author Topic: 4X/Grand Strategy Game Alliance of the Sacred Suns - Soon On Steam!  (Read 102331 times)

Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #210 on: May 22, 2014, 11:20:53 am »

I'm trying to find the balance between costs to create starbases and how much of a trade network the Empire should start with. I'm finding that probably it's too difficult to rebuild the trade network from scratch without giving the player more materials to work with initially, or simply having starbases already exist on more planets. What do you think?
The odd thing is that I think some or most of the planets in question _had_ starbases and the empire certainly had money to burn (hovered around 22bm most of the game). Maybe I need to issue an edict for an 'imperial subsidy' on planets that need the extra support?

I didn't manage to die of old age then. I managed a fair few years, though.

I guess the 'rotating map' I was thinking of was a completely different game that had a rather similar looking galactic map screen ... man, I can't remember what it was for the life of me. :D

Did you have trade hubs? Without them, excess materials go straight to the Imperial capital at a huge efficiency loss. You can check your trade network by pressing 'T' on the quadrant screen. Systems with a yellow circle have a sector trade hub; systems with red have a system trade hub. Systems with no circle at all can only receive emergency supplies if they have a starbase. You create trade hubs by Edict on planets that have a starbase of any kind.
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Developer of Alliance of the Sacred Suns, nee Imperia. Not Steve Walmsley. But he's great.
Find out more about the game at http://www.allianceofthesacredsuns.com!

Zireael

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #211 on: May 22, 2014, 11:29:49 am »

-snip-

Hmmm. You say you mouse over a planet? On the system screen? Strange. The intel button issue I have already fixed from a previous post and will have in the next update, unless it crashes each and every game, which in that case it's graphical. Your resolution is what Imperia was originally designed for, so I can't imagine what graphic issues it could be. Does it happen each time you mouse over a planet, or just certain types? Thanks so much.


It happens every game, on all planets connected to other planets by those lines, I assume it means they are part of the empire. no other planets have any crashes at all.

That is... bizarre. So it's not planets, it's star systems on the quadrant map, and you say it happens only to planets connected by lines. The lines represent sectors, and not all planets that are connected by those lines are actually part of the Empire - they have to have at least an outpost to claim sovereignty. Does this happen literally every single time, and does the left-hand info bar come up when you mouse over other systems? I think this is the only major bug left, and I want to track it down...

In my case, yes, the left-hand info bar pops up and the game CTDs a moment later. That's what tipped me that it might be connected.
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ptb_ptb

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #212 on: May 22, 2014, 11:32:51 am »

Did you have trade hubs? Without them, excess materials go straight to the Imperial capital at a huge efficiency loss. You can check your trade network by pressing 'T' on the quadrant screen.
OK. Had no idea about that. :P

Completely wasted that amazing start.
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Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #213 on: May 22, 2014, 11:43:46 am »

Did you have trade hubs? Without them, excess materials go straight to the Imperial capital at a huge efficiency loss. You can check your trade network by pressing 'T' on the quadrant screen.
OK. Had no idea about that. :P

Completely wasted that amazing start.

See, this is why I need to get on that wiki post haste.  ;D
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Developer of Alliance of the Sacred Suns, nee Imperia. Not Steve Walmsley. But he's great.
Find out more about the game at http://www.allianceofthesacredsuns.com!

Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #214 on: May 22, 2014, 11:45:27 am »

-snip-

Hmmm. You say you mouse over a planet? On the system screen? Strange. The intel button issue I have already fixed from a previous post and will have in the next update, unless it crashes each and every game, which in that case it's graphical. Your resolution is what Imperia was originally designed for, so I can't imagine what graphic issues it could be. Does it happen each time you mouse over a planet, or just certain types? Thanks so much.


It happens every game, on all planets connected to other planets by those lines, I assume it means they are part of the empire. no other planets have any crashes at all.

That is... bizarre. So it's not planets, it's star systems on the quadrant map, and you say it happens only to planets connected by lines. The lines represent sectors, and not all planets that are connected by those lines are actually part of the Empire - they have to have at least an outpost to claim sovereignty. Does this happen literally every single time, and does the left-hand info bar come up when you mouse over other systems? I think this is the only major bug left, and I want to track it down...

In my case, yes, the left-hand info bar pops up and the game CTDs a moment later. That's what tipped me that it might be connected.

Is that every star, or just ones you own?
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Developer of Alliance of the Sacred Suns, nee Imperia. Not Steve Walmsley. But he's great.
Find out more about the game at http://www.allianceofthesacredsuns.com!

Zireael

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #215 on: May 22, 2014, 12:59:07 pm »

I think every one, if it was only mine the game wouldn't CTD every time so quickly.
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taat

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #216 on: May 22, 2014, 01:02:46 pm »

-snip-

Hmmm. You say you mouse over a planet? On the system screen? Strange. The intel button issue I have already fixed from a previous post and will have in the next update, unless it crashes each and every game, which in that case it's graphical. Your resolution is what Imperia was originally designed for, so I can't imagine what graphic issues it could be. Does it happen each time you mouse over a planet, or just certain types? Thanks so much.


It happens every game, on all planets connected to other planets by those lines, I assume it means they are part of the empire. no other planets have any crashes at all.

That is... bizarre. So it's not planets, it's star systems on the quadrant map, and you say it happens only to planets connected by lines. The lines represent sectors, and not all planets that are connected by those lines are actually part of the Empire - they have to have at least an outpost to claim sovereignty. Does this happen literally every single time, and does the left-hand info bar come up when you mouse over other systems? I think this is the only major bug left, and I want to track it down...

Yes. every single time. the info bar doesn't have time to show up, it freezes instantly, seems like the error happens when it tries to show the info bar
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Nelia Hawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #217 on: May 22, 2014, 01:33:29 pm »

i think the green arrow to scroll down available edicts in the planet screen might not work? res 1280x768
(after building a starbase2 more edict options appeared and i think one of the resource find edicts scrolled down too far so the green arrow to scroll appeared.)

also something might be "wrong" with the "imperial capital starbase IV" it should be version 4 or? so better than 2 that you need to terraform etc. but i.e. i didnt had any options for that on a uncolonized desert planet in the same system as the imperial capital with starbase IV.
i upgraded the starbase then and the IV actually disappeared no V version or so.
upgrading it again didnt seem to change much either... no VI and still no options for that desert planet.
didnt check if upgrading another planets starbase in the same system to I and II would give options for the desert planet though.

another game that had the imperial capital starbase IV and a III base on another planet did show the options to terraform etc.
it showed in another game with the IV and a II base too.
just when its the imperial capital IV and i.e. version I starbases in the system it doesnt show terraforming etc options as if the IV starbase doesnt exist.

not sure if IV is the max upgrade level for starbases but if yes shouldnt the edict to upgrade starbases disappear then? (as upgrading the imperial IV to V and VI made the number disappear i guess something bugged out there?  didnt test it on a new build starbase I somewhere alone and then upgrading it to II III IV and then check if its possible to upgrade to V and VI and if the "letters" show to check if its just the imperial one or all after upgrading to V.)
i kind of want little 6 month and 12 month end turn buttons...  just advancing 24 months for starbase upgrade tests is a bit clicky haha.

As for the starbases... yes, you can only build up to level V, but I forgot to program a cap for that! That will be fixed for the next update. Everything else as working as designed. Let me explain.

There are two types of planetary Edicts - terrestrial Edicts, which can be supported by your planet's ground ADM and materials, and space Edicts, which require space engineering support of some kind to perform. It takes at least a level II starbase IN YOUR SECTOR and within range of your empire's engine technology (shown in green on the Quadrant View when you hit 'M' for mission mode) to perform a space Edict. Space Edicts are terraforming, colonizing, building an outpost, and surveying non-inhabited planets. Your empire capital falls outside these parameters, since it's not a sector capital, it doesn't provide support to a certain sector, even though it may be located within a sector (think Washington, DC). This is why it is critical to build a smart starbase network as soon as it is practical. For now, maintenance is not tracked, but when you have more advanced financial tools and reports, it will be. You will also be able to research longer-ranged engines, and faster warp drives (this will cut down on the length of Edicts, as they are distance-based if support comes farther away than the same system).

why doesnt the imperial capital starbase4 give space edicts?
what makes it different from other level 2+ starbases?
why does it matter what political hierarchy type the planet its orbiting has to do with the function of supporting terraformers/colonizers/outpost builders in its range?
shouldnt it be the other way around?
the imperial capital is the first on the hierarchy tree (above the sector capitals), shouldnt it work no matter what and always give space edicts to everything in its range?

what is the reason that one doesnt work/stops enabling space edicts? and if it doesnt "work" why does it still show the green range circle if the circle means nothing then?

somehow this doesnt make much sense to me.
i.e. if your imperial capital is the planet the empire basically started from... so they had just one planet, did build a starbase1, later a starbase 2 and at somepoint they upgraded it up to 4.
once it was 2 they started to colonize other planets and systems in range, lets say 2 planets in sector X and another in the system the starbase is in, so the starbase did work for colonizing etc!
then they decided for political paperwork and named it "imperial capital" and suddenly you dont have access to the starbase at all anymore? and cant even colonize the next planet one orbit further away? and have to build a starbase 1 and then 2 on the 2nd planet in that system ( or somewhere in range of your "imperial capital with useless level 4 starbase") to be able to colonize another planet.

i.e. imperial capital on earth with starbase 4, mars is colonized too, venus is not.... and cant be colonized because the starbase 4 is suddenly kind of useless/unavaiable and i have to build another starbase on mars to be able to colonize venus.
its a giant starbase mostly the biggest and highest level one the empire has... 2 level higher then what you need to enable terraforming and colonizers in its range. the hell are they doing on "the biggest/highest tech" starbase 4 then that makes it more or less "useless" as it is not used to enable colonizing/terraforming anymore?


who knows maybe i am the only one who thinks this is strange.
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Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #218 on: May 22, 2014, 04:47:19 pm »

i think the green arrow to scroll down available edicts in the planet screen might not work? res 1280x768
(after building a starbase2 more edict options appeared and i think one of the resource find edicts scrolled down too far so the green arrow to scroll appeared.)

also something might be "wrong" with the "imperial capital starbase IV" it should be version 4 or? so better than 2 that you need to terraform etc. but i.e. i didnt had any options for that on a uncolonized desert planet in the same system as the imperial capital with starbase IV.
i upgraded the starbase then and the IV actually disappeared no V version or so.
upgrading it again didnt seem to change much either... no VI and still no options for that desert planet.
didnt check if upgrading another planets starbase in the same system to I and II would give options for the desert planet though.

another game that had the imperial capital starbase IV and a III base on another planet did show the options to terraform etc.
it showed in another game with the IV and a II base too.
just when its the imperial capital IV and i.e. version I starbases in the system it doesnt show terraforming etc options as if the IV starbase doesnt exist.

not sure if IV is the max upgrade level for starbases but if yes shouldnt the edict to upgrade starbases disappear then? (as upgrading the imperial IV to V and VI made the number disappear i guess something bugged out there?  didnt test it on a new build starbase I somewhere alone and then upgrading it to II III IV and then check if its possible to upgrade to V and VI and if the "letters" show to check if its just the imperial one or all after upgrading to V.)
i kind of want little 6 month and 12 month end turn buttons...  just advancing 24 months for starbase upgrade tests is a bit clicky haha.

As for the starbases... yes, you can only build up to level V, but I forgot to program a cap for that! That will be fixed for the next update. Everything else as working as designed. Let me explain.

There are two types of planetary Edicts - terrestrial Edicts, which can be supported by your planet's ground ADM and materials, and space Edicts, which require space engineering support of some kind to perform. It takes at least a level II starbase IN YOUR SECTOR and within range of your empire's engine technology (shown in green on the Quadrant View when you hit 'M' for mission mode) to perform a space Edict. Space Edicts are terraforming, colonizing, building an outpost, and surveying non-inhabited planets. Your empire capital falls outside these parameters, since it's not a sector capital, it doesn't provide support to a certain sector, even though it may be located within a sector (think Washington, DC). This is why it is critical to build a smart starbase network as soon as it is practical. For now, maintenance is not tracked, but when you have more advanced financial tools and reports, it will be. You will also be able to research longer-ranged engines, and faster warp drives (this will cut down on the length of Edicts, as they are distance-based if support comes farther away than the same system).

why doesnt the imperial capital starbase4 give space edicts?
what makes it different from other level 2+ starbases?
why does it matter what political hierarchy type the planet its orbiting has to do with the function of supporting terraformers/colonizers/outpost builders in its range?
shouldnt it be the other way around?
the imperial capital is the first on the hierarchy tree (above the sector capitals), shouldnt it work no matter what and always give space edicts to everything in its range?

what is the reason that one doesnt work/stops enabling space edicts? and if it doesnt "work" why does it still show the green range circle if the circle means nothing then?

somehow this doesnt make much sense to me.
i.e. if your imperial capital is the planet the empire basically started from... so they had just one planet, did build a starbase1, later a starbase 2 and at somepoint they upgraded it up to 4.
once it was 2 they started to colonize other planets and systems in range, lets say 2 planets in sector X and another in the system the starbase is in, so the starbase did work for colonizing etc!
then they decided for political paperwork and named it "imperial capital" and suddenly you dont have access to the starbase at all anymore? and cant even colonize the next planet one orbit further away? and have to build a starbase 1 and then 2 on the 2nd planet in that system ( or somewhere in range of your "imperial capital with useless level 4 starbase") to be able to colonize another planet.

i.e. imperial capital on earth with starbase 4, mars is colonized too, venus is not.... and cant be colonized because the starbase 4 is suddenly kind of useless/unavaiable and i have to build another starbase on mars to be able to colonize venus.
its a giant starbase mostly the biggest and highest level one the empire has... 2 level higher then what you need to enable terraforming and colonizers in its range. the hell are they doing on "the biggest/highest tech" starbase 4 then that makes it more or less "useless" as it is not used to enable colonizing/terraforming anymore?


who knows maybe i am the only one who thinks this is strange.

You make a compelling case. That actually makes sense. Ok, I'll change it for the next version that the Imperial Capital can support a mission to any system in range. :-)
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Developer of Alliance of the Sacred Suns, nee Imperia. Not Steve Walmsley. But he's great.
Find out more about the game at http://www.allianceofthesacredsuns.com!

Retropunch

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #219 on: May 22, 2014, 05:11:31 pm »

Although you've already said you'll change it, for posterity I will say that I do agree with Nelia Hawk, it's a bit strange.
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Xinvoker

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #220 on: May 22, 2014, 05:24:14 pm »

I had a pretty exciting long session of 8 years  :D in 0.227 during which I learned the following:

- Starvation doesn't actually starve people, yet.
- extremely low planetary support doesn't do anything spectacular either. I got it to 0.1%
- However, having a low support hellhole does give you a lot of tyranical influence! Useful for assassinations, which cost 5 tyr influence
- High support planets give you nationalist influence. Quite useful for praising viceroys and getting things done fast.
- it took me 4 tries to assassinate an evil viceroy that single handedly made the people hate me 35% more than they should.
- My imperial capital lowered it's str mineral raring to 51 from 90+ over time. I surveyed 5 times but found nothing. (was I just unlucky?). I suppose pressure to expand will be a thing.
-Terraforming can fail! That really caught me by surprise. Image the people's dissapointment when after 62 months, it did. Waiting for it to be done was the main reason I played so long too. Maybe it shouldn't fail, then again 6 years is a very short time to terraform a planet in real life. That was a normal terraform, didn't try stellar and I don't know the difference.
-Constructing an outpost gives you a 5/5 tdl base, no matter what the planet class is (mine was IV) . I can't imagine it being worth it. It even started out with 9 times people than could ever be employed in the lvl 5 manufacturing sector. You can change the primary designation but it doesn't become a colony.
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EuchreJack

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #221 on: May 22, 2014, 08:59:36 pm »

Quick question: What does a "Starship Production Center" do? It seems you can keep building them over and over.

For now, nothing really. Eventually, it is where your starships will be built. So you'll want to build these at high-production planets, since starships are material-heavy. I probably need to add some kind of 'perk' until this game system is implemented, eh?
Perks for the starship production center could be something like cheaper/faster colonization, survey, etc?

I think faster would be more relevant, since you'd have more ships available to do the task with.

I'd say cheaper as well for three reasons:

1) A larger starship production center could create larger vessels cheaper, due to more working area.
2) A larger starship production center is geared to making more ships, so economies-of-scale come into play.  Uniformity and interchangeability of components, production lines, a larger workforce that is trained to build the ships, more costs shared among several production lines, etc.
3) Starships are being produced in-sector, rather than having to be imported.  Although presumably, import/export of starships between sectors will be a thing in the future, with some sectors just able to build cheaper starships than others, in some cases negating this third point.  But for now, we can assume that just the fuel/maintenance/crew costs would be enough to make in-sector starships cheaper.

I should think that starship production centers should increase space mission range as well.  It essentially reflects a greater proportion of newer ships being used, which are both more advanced (better engines) and more reliable (less maintenance materials/emergency supplies needed, thus more fuel and crew supplies can be carried) than older models, thus increasing mission range.  Also more starship production centers means that more ships are available for refuel/resupply missions to currently-deployed fleets.  I'll admit: Starship production centers boosting space mission range just makes sense to me, but I'm still not sure why.  Maybe others can add to my reasons?

Might be an error when restarting after losing: I had a bunch of systems, both inhabited and not, assigned to the "Overflow" sector.  And it appeared there was two systems overlapping.

i think the green arrow to scroll down available edicts in the planet screen might not work? res 1280x768
(after building a starbase2 more edict options appeared and i think one of the resource find edicts scrolled down too far so the green arrow to scroll appeared.)

also something might be "wrong" with the "imperial capital starbase IV" it should be version 4 or? so better than 2 that you need to terraform etc. but i.e. i didnt had any options for that on a uncolonized desert planet in the same system as the imperial capital with starbase IV.
i upgraded the starbase then and the IV actually disappeared no V version or so.
upgrading it again didnt seem to change much either... no VI and still no options for that desert planet.
didnt check if upgrading another planets starbase in the same system to I and II would give options for the desert planet though.

another game that had the imperial capital starbase IV and a III base on another planet did show the options to terraform etc.
it showed in another game with the IV and a II base too.
just when its the imperial capital IV and i.e. version I starbases in the system it doesnt show terraforming etc options as if the IV starbase doesnt exist.

not sure if IV is the max upgrade level for starbases but if yes shouldnt the edict to upgrade starbases disappear then? (as upgrading the imperial IV to V and VI made the number disappear i guess something bugged out there?  didnt test it on a new build starbase I somewhere alone and then upgrading it to II III IV and then check if its possible to upgrade to V and VI and if the "letters" show to check if its just the imperial one or all after upgrading to V.)
i kind of want little 6 month and 12 month end turn buttons...  just advancing 24 months for starbase upgrade tests is a bit clicky haha.

As for the starbases... yes, you can only build up to level V, but I forgot to program a cap for that! That will be fixed for the next update. Everything else as working as designed. Let me explain.

There are two types of planetary Edicts - terrestrial Edicts, which can be supported by your planet's ground ADM and materials, and space Edicts, which require space engineering support of some kind to perform. It takes at least a level II starbase IN YOUR SECTOR and within range of your empire's engine technology (shown in green on the Quadrant View when you hit 'M' for mission mode) to perform a space Edict. Space Edicts are terraforming, colonizing, building an outpost, and surveying non-inhabited planets. Your empire capital falls outside these parameters, since it's not a sector capital, it doesn't provide support to a certain sector, even though it may be located within a sector (think Washington, DC). This is why it is critical to build a smart starbase network as soon as it is practical. For now, maintenance is not tracked, but when you have more advanced financial tools and reports, it will be. You will also be able to research longer-ranged engines, and faster warp drives (this will cut down on the length of Edicts, as they are distance-based if support comes farther away than the same system).

why doesnt the imperial capital starbase4 give space edicts?
what makes it different from other level 2+ starbases?
why does it matter what political hierarchy type the planet its orbiting has to do with the function of supporting terraformers/colonizers/outpost builders in its range?
shouldnt it be the other way around?
the imperial capital is the first on the hierarchy tree (above the sector capitals), shouldnt it work no matter what and always give space edicts to everything in its range?

what is the reason that one doesnt work/stops enabling space edicts? and if it doesnt "work" why does it still show the green range circle if the circle means nothing then?

somehow this doesnt make much sense to me.
i.e. if your imperial capital is the planet the empire basically started from... so they had just one planet, did build a starbase1, later a starbase 2 and at somepoint they upgraded it up to 4.
once it was 2 they started to colonize other planets and systems in range, lets say 2 planets in sector X and another in the system the starbase is in, so the starbase did work for colonizing etc!
then they decided for political paperwork and named it "imperial capital" and suddenly you dont have access to the starbase at all anymore? and cant even colonize the next planet one orbit further away? and have to build a starbase 1 and then 2 on the 2nd planet in that system ( or somewhere in range of your "imperial capital with useless level 4 starbase") to be able to colonize another planet.

i.e. imperial capital on earth with starbase 4, mars is colonized too, venus is not.... and cant be colonized because the starbase 4 is suddenly kind of useless/unavaiable and i have to build another starbase on mars to be able to colonize venus.
its a giant starbase mostly the biggest and highest level one the empire has... 2 level higher then what you need to enable terraforming and colonizers in its range. the hell are they doing on "the biggest/highest tech" starbase 4 then that makes it more or less "useless" as it is not used to enable colonizing/terraforming anymore?


who knows maybe i am the only one who thinks this is strange.

You make a compelling case. That actually makes sense. Ok, I'll change it for the next version that the Imperial Capital can support a mission to any system in range. :-)

I actually had one game where the Imperial Capital could support a mission to a planet in-system.  I suspect there was no sector capital, and I know there was no system capital.  FYI, your Imperial Capital can't be your Sector Capital, as only the highest capital counts.

I believe what Texashawk was trying to create was the situation where:
1) ALL space missions are run by the Sector Government.
2) Imperial Capital does not report to Sector Government.
Therefore:
...The Imperial Capital's Starbase does not count as a required level 2+ starbase for space missions, because the Imperial Starbase doesn't answer to the Sector Government. 

Sort of how like the Norfolk Naval Base doesn't answer to the Governor of Virginia.

I assume the solution is somehow to isolate the Imperial Capital's system.  Obviously, you'll piss off the Sector Viceroy that claims ownership of the Imperial Capital's system, but they should never have had power over the Imperial System in the first place.  The fact that anyone but the Emperor has control in the Emperor's home system is a sure sign of the weakness of past rulers.
...But even if it's possible, I doubt it's wise to piss off a Sector Viceroy when building a level 2 starbase somewhere else will do.

Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #222 on: May 22, 2014, 11:28:03 pm »

-snip-

Hmmm. You say you mouse over a planet? On the system screen? Strange. The intel button issue I have already fixed from a previous post and will have in the next update, unless it crashes each and every game, which in that case it's graphical. Your resolution is what Imperia was originally designed for, so I can't imagine what graphic issues it could be. Does it happen each time you mouse over a planet, or just certain types? Thanks so much.


It happens every game, on all planets connected to other planets by those lines, I assume it means they are part of the empire. no other planets have any crashes at all.

That is... bizarre. So it's not planets, it's star systems on the quadrant map, and you say it happens only to planets connected by lines. The lines represent sectors, and not all planets that are connected by those lines are actually part of the Empire - they have to have at least an outpost to claim sovereignty. Does this happen literally every single time, and does the left-hand info bar come up when you mouse over other systems? I think this is the only major bug left, and I want to track it down...

Yes. every single time. the info bar doesn't have time to show up, it freezes instantly, seems like the error happens when it tries to show the info bar

OK, can you and Zireael try this: Without touching a star, can you click on the INTEL button and see if you can jump directly to a planet by clicking? I want to make sure that every other part of the UI is working or that it's just not loading planets or systems correctly. I have a hunch about what it might be but I'd like to check this first. And actually if that works, since you can access any planet from the Intel screen, you could actually play by navigating that way, though obviously I'd like to fix whatever's wrong. Thanks!
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Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #223 on: May 22, 2014, 11:31:25 pm »

I had a pretty exciting long session of 8 years  :D in 0.227 during which I learned the following:

- Starvation doesn't actually starve people, yet.
- extremely low planetary support doesn't do anything spectacular either. I got it to 0.1%
- However, having a low support hellhole does give you a lot of tyranical influence! Useful for assassinations, which cost 5 tyr influence
- High support planets give you nationalist influence. Quite useful for praising viceroys and getting things done fast.
- it took me 4 tries to assassinate an evil viceroy that single handedly made the people hate me 35% more than they should.
- My imperial capital lowered it's str mineral raring to 51 from 90+ over time. I surveyed 5 times but found nothing. (was I just unlucky?). I suppose pressure to expand will be a thing.
-Terraforming can fail! That really caught me by surprise. Image the people's dissapointment when after 62 months, it did. Waiting for it to be done was the main reason I played so long too. Maybe it shouldn't fail, then again 6 years is a very short time to terraform a planet in real life. That was a normal terraform, didn't try stellar and I don't know the difference.
-Constructing an outpost gives you a 5/5 tdl base, no matter what the planet class is (mine was IV) . I can't imagine it being worth it. It even started out with 9 times people than could ever be employed in the lvl 5 manufacturing sector. You can change the primary designation but it doesn't become a colony.

Sounds like you had a pretty interesting game! And it sounds like you had a pretty... um... challenging planet. Remember, it's not the worst thing ever to bail on a planet. Your people will be happier too (eventually!)

Yes, terraforming can fail, especially on nicer worlds to begin with. This was to prevent turning every planet into Gaia. You could... but you'd have to spend an immense amount of time, money, and resources to do it, which precludes everything else. That said, it should be much easier to terraform worlds below 50 Bio. As you've discovered, you can stripmine planets too. This is, as you said, to encourage expansion, as eventually it would be very prohibitive cost-wise to continue running a massive manufacturing sector with minerals that are very hard to get.

I'm still fiddling with the outpost balance. I think the 5/5 tdl is a bug. I'll look at it. That would be useless, though. :-)

Glad you had a fun game!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 11:32:59 pm by Texashawk »
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Texashawk

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Re: ALPHA .226 RELEASED! Imperia: New '5X' 4X Game I am designing
« Reply #224 on: May 22, 2014, 11:37:34 pm »

Quick question: What does a "Starship Production Center" do? It seems you can keep building them over and over.

For now, nothing really. Eventually, it is where your starships will be built. So you'll want to build these at high-production planets, since starships are material-heavy. I probably need to add some kind of 'perk' until this game system is implemented, eh?
Perks for the starship production center could be something like cheaper/faster colonization, survey, etc?

I think faster would be more relevant, since you'd have more ships available to do the task with.

I'd say cheaper as well for three reasons:

1) A larger starship production center could create larger vessels cheaper, due to more working area.
2) A larger starship production center is geared to making more ships, so economies-of-scale come into play.  Uniformity and interchangeability of components, production lines, a larger workforce that is trained to build the ships, more costs shared among several production lines, etc.
3) Starships are being produced in-sector, rather than having to be imported.  Although presumably, import/export of starships between sectors will be a thing in the future, with some sectors just able to build cheaper starships than others, in some cases negating this third point.  But for now, we can assume that just the fuel/maintenance/crew costs would be enough to make in-sector starships cheaper.

I should think that starship production centers should increase space mission range as well.  It essentially reflects a greater proportion of newer ships being used, which are both more advanced (better engines) and more reliable (less maintenance materials/emergency supplies needed, thus more fuel and crew supplies can be carried) than older models, thus increasing mission range.  Also more starship production centers means that more ships are available for refuel/resupply missions to currently-deployed fleets.  I'll admit: Starship production centers boosting space mission range just makes sense to me, but I'm still not sure why.  Maybe others can add to my reasons?

Might be an error when restarting after losing: I had a bunch of systems, both inhabited and not, assigned to the "Overflow" sector.  And it appeared there was two systems overlapping.

i think the green arrow to scroll down available edicts in the planet screen might not work? res 1280x768
(after building a starbase2 more edict options appeared and i think one of the resource find edicts scrolled down too far so the green arrow to scroll appeared.)

also something might be "wrong" with the "imperial capital starbase IV" it should be version 4 or? so better than 2 that you need to terraform etc. but i.e. i didnt had any options for that on a uncolonized desert planet in the same system as the imperial capital with starbase IV.
i upgraded the starbase then and the IV actually disappeared no V version or so.
upgrading it again didnt seem to change much either... no VI and still no options for that desert planet.
didnt check if upgrading another planets starbase in the same system to I and II would give options for the desert planet though.

another game that had the imperial capital starbase IV and a III base on another planet did show the options to terraform etc.
it showed in another game with the IV and a II base too.
just when its the imperial capital IV and i.e. version I starbases in the system it doesnt show terraforming etc options as if the IV starbase doesnt exist.

not sure if IV is the max upgrade level for starbases but if yes shouldnt the edict to upgrade starbases disappear then? (as upgrading the imperial IV to V and VI made the number disappear i guess something bugged out there?  didnt test it on a new build starbase I somewhere alone and then upgrading it to II III IV and then check if its possible to upgrade to V and VI and if the "letters" show to check if its just the imperial one or all after upgrading to V.)
i kind of want little 6 month and 12 month end turn buttons...  just advancing 24 months for starbase upgrade tests is a bit clicky haha.

As for the starbases... yes, you can only build up to level V, but I forgot to program a cap for that! That will be fixed for the next update. Everything else as working as designed. Let me explain.

There are two types of planetary Edicts - terrestrial Edicts, which can be supported by your planet's ground ADM and materials, and space Edicts, which require space engineering support of some kind to perform. It takes at least a level II starbase IN YOUR SECTOR and within range of your empire's engine technology (shown in green on the Quadrant View when you hit 'M' for mission mode) to perform a space Edict. Space Edicts are terraforming, colonizing, building an outpost, and surveying non-inhabited planets. Your empire capital falls outside these parameters, since it's not a sector capital, it doesn't provide support to a certain sector, even though it may be located within a sector (think Washington, DC). This is why it is critical to build a smart starbase network as soon as it is practical. For now, maintenance is not tracked, but when you have more advanced financial tools and reports, it will be. You will also be able to research longer-ranged engines, and faster warp drives (this will cut down on the length of Edicts, as they are distance-based if support comes farther away than the same system).

why doesnt the imperial capital starbase4 give space edicts?
what makes it different from other level 2+ starbases?
why does it matter what political hierarchy type the planet its orbiting has to do with the function of supporting terraformers/colonizers/outpost builders in its range?
shouldnt it be the other way around?
the imperial capital is the first on the hierarchy tree (above the sector capitals), shouldnt it work no matter what and always give space edicts to everything in its range?

what is the reason that one doesnt work/stops enabling space edicts? and if it doesnt "work" why does it still show the green range circle if the circle means nothing then?

somehow this doesnt make much sense to me.
i.e. if your imperial capital is the planet the empire basically started from... so they had just one planet, did build a starbase1, later a starbase 2 and at somepoint they upgraded it up to 4.
once it was 2 they started to colonize other planets and systems in range, lets say 2 planets in sector X and another in the system the starbase is in, so the starbase did work for colonizing etc!
then they decided for political paperwork and named it "imperial capital" and suddenly you dont have access to the starbase at all anymore? and cant even colonize the next planet one orbit further away? and have to build a starbase 1 and then 2 on the 2nd planet in that system ( or somewhere in range of your "imperial capital with useless level 4 starbase") to be able to colonize another planet.

i.e. imperial capital on earth with starbase 4, mars is colonized too, venus is not.... and cant be colonized because the starbase 4 is suddenly kind of useless/unavaiable and i have to build another starbase on mars to be able to colonize venus.
its a giant starbase mostly the biggest and highest level one the empire has... 2 level higher then what you need to enable terraforming and colonizers in its range. the hell are they doing on "the biggest/highest tech" starbase 4 then that makes it more or less "useless" as it is not used to enable colonizing/terraforming anymore?


who knows maybe i am the only one who thinks this is strange.

You make a compelling case. That actually makes sense. Ok, I'll change it for the next version that the Imperial Capital can support a mission to any system in range. :-)

I actually had one game where the Imperial Capital could support a mission to a planet in-system.  I suspect there was no sector capital, and I know there was no system capital.  FYI, your Imperial Capital can't be your Sector Capital, as only the highest capital counts.

I believe what Texashawk was trying to create was the situation where:
1) ALL space missions are run by the Sector Government.
2) Imperial Capital does not report to Sector Government.
Therefore:
...The Imperial Capital's Starbase does not count as a required level 2+ starbase for space missions, because the Imperial Starbase doesn't answer to the Sector Government. 

Sort of how like the Norfolk Naval Base doesn't answer to the Governor of Virginia.

I assume the solution is somehow to isolate the Imperial Capital's system.  Obviously, you'll piss off the Sector Viceroy that claims ownership of the Imperial Capital's system, but they should never have had power over the Imperial System in the first place.  The fact that anyone but the Emperor has control in the Emperor's home system is a sure sign of the weakness of past rulers.
...But even if it's possible, I doubt it's wise to piss off a Sector Viceroy when building a level 2 starbase somewhere else will do.

This. All of it. This person has gotten the premise and intended dynamic of Imperia completely.   :D And yes, I thought about originally having the Imperial capital's system be a 'free agent' all of the time but I thought about the background story I'd created and it worked out better for the capital to belong to a sector, but not necessarily be ruled by it. It would make for interesting dynamics between sector governors who coveted humanity's 'new home system'. You nailed it, EuchreJack. And this is why I originally had the starbase support system set up as it was. It can be tried both ways; it's early days for the design.
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