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Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.

Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.

Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.

No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.

No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

[Meph]

Also leaves line of sight to invaders, which scare your civilians and lifestock, and shoot arrows/bolts across your moats. 

[Guthbug]

Also leaves line of sight to invaders, which scare your civilians and lifestock, and shoot arrows/bolts across your moats. 

Easily resolved.

In those sorts of villages, there are no "civilians". Everyone is in the militia of some sort and usually has a bone or wood crossbow.

It's primitive in a Gaelic sort of way.

If I have plenty of resources and want to build a big ol' thing, I will generally put up a motte and bailey early on, with the bailey a designated burrow for the civies to run into.

[Nuhaine]

Bug: Humans sometimes bring nothing in trade caravans. I notice that they only brought 'Ironclad/Steelclad' horses with them this time, so I'm wondering if they haven't been given their pack animal status.


@Top Left of Fort: http://i.imgur.com/MhAYakk.png

I also use trenches. I was able to come up with a design that allows me to fit 6 guilds in a relatively small area, and build upwards as needed. It also doesn't look too shabby. The trenches are nice because you can lay out foundations, while eliminating LOS to invaders until they get close.

Interior: http://i.imgur.com/1IVUk9V.png

I'll try and spew some feedback soon.

[Guthbug]

Compared to that, mine are a squalor-filled cluster of mud huts.

[Nuhaine]

Using the still to fill barrels with water a lot seems to create a reasonable amount of flow in the pond you draw from as the water starts to jump around. I haven't tested it yet, but this might allow for renewable fishing.

Also, the trading for Obsidian boulders reaction says (5), but I receive 10 for running the reaction.

[Guthbug]

Where in the stockpile settings do you find water? I want to store barrels of water in a specific building but can't seem to find the right settings.

[Meph]

I have no idea about stockpiling water. It should be a drink.

[Guthbug]

I have no idea about stockpiling water. It should be a drink.

Doesn't seem to be under plant or animal drinks. I'll keep looking. It's ending up in the stockpile, but not sure how.

I see we went back to bows instead of crossbows. I like that better.

[LMeire]

Heads up: Indoor quarries just won't work for humans.

Earlier I suggested digging in frozen oceans for well-lit housing and storage space; well, don't try to dig a quarry like that. As it turns out, the game apparently only thinks of natural ice ceilings being transparent/translucent if the z-level to be lit is above sea-level, anything below will cause your miners to get dizzy as if the transparent ceiling above were made of solid rock.

[Emperor]

Is it possible to limit number of civilizations per race? I witnessed some fight recently, and soldiers were yelling : "For the Emperor", and such, even if the world is full of puny confederacies.
The idea is to make only one, but relatively huge, civilization of humans per region/island. Only then the warcries will have any sense.

[Guthbug]

Ok, so at this point I've built all the shops, buildings, and unique things that humans have access to. I haven't fully explored the caste system, the military upgrades, or the altar.

I've experimented with different aboveground city designs from simple fishing villages to large map sprawling vistas.

They're pretty cool, but I can't help but feel like something is missing. Some exploration thing that would keep me playing humans, or some high end development thing, or whatever. Am I the only one who feels that way? There's a pretty good sense of achievement from an aboveground town, since it's a lot harder than an underground fort, but I don't know if that's enough flavor to really draw my interest long term.

The warlocks have a huge number of spells and skills to keep toying with, so that is their draw.
Dwarves just get very dwarfy with their crafting, the high end buildings, machines, etc.
Gnomes are sort of in line with dwarves, but experimenting with interesting fort designs is a lot of fun.
Orcs have the raiding "slot machine" to keep your attention virtually forever.
Kobolds are just dang hard and that makes them interesting in a tribal sort of way.
Succubus I haven't spent enough time with, but they seem like a "living" sort of evil race ... similar to warlocks but more alive.

What is the grand vision of humans to fit into that? They're cool, very polished and extremely well-done with a complex economy, but as a preference thing, I think I'd find myself spending time with the other races more.

Some magic ability might improve their replay value. Or some sort of mission to them. Maybe a way to send out trade caravans.

I'm just not sure. Sorry, Meph, if this comes across too much like criticism. I know you've spent a lot of time on this. It's a great ice cream sundae, but I think we're still missing the cherry on top.

[Meph]

Criticism is good.

An issue with the mod, at least from my point of view, is that people might play dwarves all the time, and completely ignore the other races. Maybe because they are too difficult, too different, or simply to unkown. Humans should be easy to get into and offer a view into all other races. You have 20 workshops that offer glimpses into the pets, items, materials and special features of 10 other races.

Be it succubi summons, warlock spells and zombies, gnomish gadgets... if you play humans, you can have a look at all of them. This was my main goal. People that play humans might find these off-race features interesting enough to start playing Succubi or Gnomes afterwards, because they have been made more curious about them.

The other goal was the guild system. I actually wanted to do exactly this system for dwarves. But the forum community voted against it, because its too different from vanilla. Thats why dwarves have only 1 guildhall, it was decided by poll. But since that day I wanted to make these huge, multi-building guilds that dictate different industries. That goal I reached as well.

End-game for humans I could think of this: Foreign Envoys. Build a special diplomacy building, try to "invite a new civ", similar to orc raids, or how kobold steal, but instead you spawn buildmats for ethical buildings.

"You have received word from the Vikings, they allow you to build a Mead-Hall, which trains Berserkers."
"You have received word from the Far East, they will establish a Dojo, training Martial Arts."
"You have received word from the Sultanates, they send a spice and silk merchant. Turbans and Scimitars, hell yeah."

Obviously that clashes with the idea of using 4 different civs with different nobles as I planned, but I am not sure how feasable that is. The humans turned out to be too western, I cant just rename the nobles, give them scimitars and turbans, and suddenly they are middle-eastern.

But I am all ears for other high-end features. They are usually very difficult to write, and I dont know if I can do that within the week I have left (have to playtest, do a tutorial fort, finish the manuals... maybe some warlock stuff, maybe some graphical twbt stuff), but what could I possibly add? Religion is based on IndigoFenix Pantheon script, its actually pretty powerful and I assume it will only get better... magic doesnt seem human, high-tech is gnomish, high-end metals is dwarvish...

[Guthbug]

Good goals, and yes, I'd say you reached them.

The foreign envoys idea is nice. Advanced option for the merchant guild hall?

No fantasy world is complete without humans, but the humans interact with the fantasy world. It's the humans in most lores that go out and explore, fight wars, dungeon crawl, etc.

I can think of several ways to simulate that in a building, but none particularly unique. They've all been done before.

Deon's tavern is completely underused right now. You can spawn adventurers, which is awesomely cool. But if you could then assemble a squad with them to do a dungeon crawl into the cavern layers? A whole new level of cool. Can somehow the cave adaptation be removed from the unique castes that are spawned in the tavern?

[Meph]

Sure I could remove cave adaption from them, but you could simply give them torches.

The tavern will get some songs with AoE buffs as well, like the dwarven one.

But honestly, the humans are pretty much finished from my point of view. Just military castes missing. the knighs and guards and such. Rest is done.

[Guthbug]

Sure I could remove cave adaption from them, but you could simply give them torches.

The tavern will get some songs with AoE buffs as well, like the dwarven one.

But honestly, the humans are pretty much finished from my point of view. Just military castes missing. the knighs and guards and such. Rest is done.

Torches work now? Awesome.

They feel finished to me at this point too. The knights and such aren't going to add so much as to be a game changer. But you and I both know that as the months roll by, you're always going to be adding stuff.