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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Ukrainian Ranger]

No reason to worship them or think they can magically stop an army.

Exactly. Battalion of guys who got a basic month long training and artillery\air support will wipe out just any elite platoon of the world.

Somehow Russians keep forgetting about Chechya... Those guys had no army at all. And it wasn't easy at all.

My personal opinion is that Russian army is a big pile of crap that would collapse against NATO\Israeli\Japanese\South Korean army real quick
Problem is that Ukrainian army is even worse than Russian....

Eh, If only Russian myths about American private military companies in Ukraine was true

[Owlbread]

I'm surprised you chaps read my rant that fast but by all means if you want to talk about how good Russian soldiers are don't let me stop you.

[mainiac]

I was serious about the last one. Do you know why the Georgia, which was armed by the West, lost to one Russian army in a week?

Did you know that Spetsnaz could literally beat up a gradeschooler and steal his money?

[Sergarr]

No reason to worship them or think they can magically stop an army.

Exactly. Battalion of guys who got a basic month long training and artillery\air support will wipe out just any elite platoon of the world.

Somehow Russians keep forgetting about Chechya... Those guys had no army at all. And it wasn't easy at all.

My personal opinion is that Russian army is a big pile of crap that would collapse against NATO\Israeli\Japanese\South Korean army real quick
Problem is that Ukrainian army is even worse than Russian....

Eh, If only Russian myths about American private military companies in Ukraine was true

While the Chechens weren't the best people in the world, they had one thing which Ukraine and the NATO don't have now: fighting spirit.

EDIT: Add mainiac to the list of guys supporting "Us" vs "Them" mentality.

[Knit tie]

Enough measuring army strength, you all. Let's focus on politics.

And I'm afraid Owlbread is right, this entire clusterfuck went exactly as Putin planned and gave him the support necessary to stay in power some more.

[Sergarr]

Enough measuring army strength, you all. Let's focus on politics.

And I'm afraid Owlbread is right, this entire clusterfuck went exactly as Putin planned and gave him the support necessary to stay in power some more.

Politics?

I predict the Kiev will fall before the 1st May.

[smjjames]

And there's Afghanistan. Sure that was like 30 years ago and I'm not sure if you got outright defeated or attritioned and tired out of there.

[Sergarr]

And there's Afghanistan. Sure that was like 30 years ago and I'm not sure if you got outright defeated or attritioned and tired out of there.

To be fair, the Afghanistan managed to defeat UK at the height of it's power five times. These guys have a lot of fighting spirit.

[mainiac]

EDIT: Add mainiac to the list of guys supporting "Us" vs "Them" mentality.

??

I'm "Us" vs. "Them" for saying that Spetsnaz does not in fact shit flowers?

[smjjames]

And there's Afghanistan. Sure that was like 30 years ago and I'm not sure if you got outright defeated or attritioned and tired out of there.

To be fair, the Afghanistan managed to defeat UK at the height of it's power five times. These guys have a lot of fighting spirit.

True, and the US is leaving for probably the same reason you guys did, sick and tired of this war.

[Sergarr]

EDIT: Add mainiac to the list of guys supporting "Us" vs "Them" mentality.

??

I'm "Us" vs. "Them" for saying that Spetsnaz does not in fact shit flowers?

You try to use emotions to make others believe what you say. You don't use logic. Therefore, you do not try to have an actual argument, with logical statements, backed up with citations from reliable sources.

Seriously, what's up with that attitude? I've seen it so many times, it's getting tiring how those guys believe they can deceive us.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

While the Chechens weren't the best people in the world, they had one thing which Ukraine and the NATO don't have now: fighting spirit.

[sarcasm] Sure, Ukrainians lack the fighting spirit. Maydan  demonstrated that. [/sarcasm]

[sarcasm] Also, Ukrainians are known to never start a guerrilla war [/sarcasm]

Our government does lack fighting spirit. Happens. Nothing unexpected. They are all doves. And I am sure they would be a pretty good government in peaceful times.  If the guys who actually led Maydan would be in charge now I doubt that everything would be as passive as now on other hand I don't believe that Right Sector or some other Maydan group would be able to get any kind of international support.


____________________________

As for Owlbeard's text...
I think he is right with one exception - IMO, Putin planned Maydan 2.0 in 2015, after the frauded presidential elections to move his troops in. 

Still I believe that invasion in Ukraine is convulsions of Russia, when monster like that dies, everyone around will suffer. It is a sad truth. Let's pray that they'll not start a nuclear war in their agony

[Knit tie]

Scientifically speaking, any grown man coud potentially beat up a gradeschooler and steal his money.

As for the Ukraine, I believe, things wouldn't be terribly different for them even if when they are occupied or controlled by Russia. Yanukovich and Putin are not very different rulers from their subjects' standard of living perspective.

I want to believe you are right, UR, and Putin's regime is crumbling.

[Comrade P.]

Enough measuring army strength, you all. Let's focus on politics.

And I'm afraid Owlbread is right, this entire clusterfuck went exactly as Putin planned and gave him the support necessary to stay in power some more.

Though I'm not quite agreed about "mega-corrupted oligarchy" part. I realize it is stupid to deny that there are fat-cats in our government, but the picture Owlbread draws somewhere in Scotland somehow grinds my gears.

[Owlbread]

Though I'm not quite agreed about "mega-corrupted oligarchy" part. I realize it is stupid to deny that there are fat-cats in our government, but the picture Owlbread draws somewhere in Scotland somehow grinds my gears.

But maybe if you could explain why you think there isn't a very corrupt oligarchy, rather than just telling me I'm wrong and foreign, that would be pretty constructive.

As for Owlbeard's text...
I think he is right with one exception - IMO, Putin planned Maydan 2.0 in 2015, after the frauded presidential elections to move his troops in.

Do you mean after Yanukovych would be re-elected and the protests would really kick in?

Still I believe that invasion in Ukraine is convulsions of Russia, when monster like that dies, everyone around will suffer. It is a sad truth. Let's pray that they'll not start a nuclear war in their agony

I hope it's the convulsions of a dying monster, I really do, but that oligarchy looks stronger than ever. I can't see how they can be stopped.