Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Poll's closed.

Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.
- 0 (0%)
So yeah.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm


Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 136

Author Topic: Re: !!Post - USSR Politics Thread!!: On Lockdown Due to Excessive Politicking  (Read 159749 times)

gogis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #330 on: April 11, 2014, 12:55:56 pm »

The point Descan was making is that you are not always clear in your writing, so if someone isn't sure what you said and asks you to clarify, then clarify.

Do you really belive that english-sucks argument ever used for clarification? Retract former thread, its was used for demeaning purposes. As usually. Thats why I am pissed off.
Logged
In Soviet Russia cigarette smokes you

Ukrainian Ranger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #331 on: April 11, 2014, 12:58:58 pm »

If Eastern countries decide to join NATO that is their choice. It is not the Russian government's place to invade them and coerce them into doing what they want.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
Can you provide a proof of that promise? I mean a document, a treaty. Words of Putin "NATO promised us" don't qualify. Even words of some Western politician doesn't qualify. In international relationships you need a piece of a paper

What happened with a good old gentleman word? Should I cite Bismark right now?
Good old gentlemen word of whom? Even if that promise existed (highly doubt it) all NATO leadership changed several times since then. Why should they be binded if someone promised to not expand NATO in 1991? I repeat it is not a treaty, unlike one 1994 year memorandum, where Russia promised to respect and defend Ukrainian territorial integrity
Logged
War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

XXSockXX

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #332 on: April 11, 2014, 01:06:37 pm »

If Eastern countries decide to join NATO that is their choice. It is not the Russian government's place to invade them and coerce them into doing what they want.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
Can you provide a proof of that promise? I mean a document, a treaty. Words of Putin "NATO promised us" don't qualify. Even words of some Western politician doesn't qualify. In international relationships you need a piece of a paper

What happened with a good old gentleman word? Should I cite Bismark right now?
Yeah, there were oral statements in 1990, but that was at a time when it was very unclear what would happen at all in Eastern Europe. If Russia and NATO had cooperated more, none of this would have been a problem, but things turned out differently.
Still this doesn't justify the current violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, after all Ukraine had a document in writing that Russia wouldn't militarily intervene there and Russia broke that. Even the people who think NATO eastward expansion was a strategic or diplomatic mistake don't argue against that.

Do you really belive that english-sucks argument ever used for clarification? Retract former thread, its was used for demeaning purposes. As usually. Thats why I am pissed off.
Yes it was. At least in the other thread people - including me - did have problems understanding you, so if somebody said something it was to clarify and not to belittle you or insult you. After all it's better to ask if something is unclear, before we misunderstand each other again.
Logged

da_nang

  • Bay Watcher
  • Argonian Overlord
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #333 on: April 11, 2014, 01:13:06 pm »

If Eastern countries decide to join NATO that is their choice. It is not the Russian government's place to invade them and coerce them into doing what they want.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
Can you provide a proof of that promise? I mean a document, a treaty. Words of Putin "NATO promised us" don't qualify. Even words of some Western politician doesn't qualify. In international relationships you need a piece of a paper

What happened with a good old gentleman word? Should I cite Bismark right now?
1. Broken telephone - Word of mouth tends to deteriorate the message throughout time. Legally binding contracts prevents that.
2. One man's word means nothing in the grand scheme if it isn't legally binding.
3. National self-determination. NATO cannot expand into a country unless the country accepts the proposal.
4. Russia isn't the only threat NATO perceives.
Logged
"Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow."
Ceterum censeo Unionem Europaeam esse delendam.
Future supplanter of humanity.

gogis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #334 on: April 11, 2014, 01:30:46 pm »

You need to completely stop reading my comments as my own opinion. When I express my opinion, I clearly state it, otherwise I play devil advocate and showing you a real thoughts of people in russia. I am the one who saw 80-90-2000 as a grown up man. I am the one who live in Moscow (which is a richest city in Russia), but having relatives in three different cities which I yearly visit.

If you write or read something major about living in Russia and I disagree with you - I am most likely correct. I have no personal agenda to act otherwise. If you spew bullshit about Russia and I correct you - I am most likely correct, and you not, despite whatever amount of links you going to post. I am not paid to defend Russia - I dont need it - I am highly paid IT professional, it's crazy to misinform somebody on obscure gaming forum.

What I see now, here.
General hostility towards Russia.
General acceptance of almost everything UR posting as truth.

As a result that's all makes me sad panda and questioning humanity rationale as species.
Logged
In Soviet Russia cigarette smokes you

Ukrainian Ranger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #335 on: April 11, 2014, 01:39:31 pm »

I think someone may find this interesting. And I would to hear opinions on that, what you like, what you dislike.

I prefer discuss that, not "Brotherhood of Russians and Ukrainians"
Logged
War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Xeron

  • Bay Watcher
  • Kill your family
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #336 on: April 11, 2014, 01:43:30 pm »

Give me one good reason why we shouldn't be hostile to Russia ?
Oh Putin gets to be a imperialist assclown and we just have to sit and take it, right ?
Logged

Ah, the spoils of pasting one self's face onto women's bodies...

gogis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #337 on: April 11, 2014, 01:50:06 pm »

Give me one good reason why we shouldn't be hostile to Russia ?
Oh Putin gets to be a imperialist assclown and we just have to sit and take it, right ?

Oh man, it's so easy it's not even funny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

Follow the list, follow each link, then make a list of when Russia was agressor and when not. You WILL be surprised in the end.
Logged
In Soviet Russia cigarette smokes you

Sergarr

  • Bay Watcher
  • (9) airheaded baka (9)
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #338 on: April 11, 2014, 02:00:06 pm »

Give me one good reason why we shouldn't be hostile to Russia ?
Oh Putin gets to be a imperialist assclown and we just have to sit and take it, right ?
Yes. Romania is a small country, after all.
Logged
._.

Comrade P.

  • Bay Watcher
  • For space is wide and good friends are too few
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #339 on: April 11, 2014, 02:04:43 pm »

@UR
Liked 3 very much.
Accepted 2, 3 and 6
5 just doesn't gets inside my москальская башка
Disliked 1 very much. Russian people are far less in numbers than Ukrainians, that's no doubt, but minority? Would you count english-speaking and french-speaking Canadians and call the lesser part the minority?

@Sergarr & Xeron
Let's have an open dialogue. Hello, I'm Comrade P. and I come from Russia, and my opinion on Putin diverges from yours. I think protecting national interests is far from being imperialist assclown. What makes you think he is an assclown?
Logged
Sigs

Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?

Owlbread

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #340 on: April 11, 2014, 02:11:08 pm »

Let's have an open dialogue. Hello, I'm Comrade P. and I come from Russia, and my opinion on Putin diverges from yours. I think protecting national interests is far from being imperialist assclown. What makes you think he is an assclown?

If the government's attempts to protect its national interests infringes on the right of another nation to self determination, that is Imperialist. You don't get to invade another country and force it to join a certain international organisation, or prevent it from joining one of its own accord.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 02:12:42 pm by Owlbread »
Logged

Sergarr

  • Bay Watcher
  • (9) airheaded baka (9)
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #341 on: April 11, 2014, 02:12:32 pm »

Let's have an open dialogue. Hello, I'm Comrade P. and I come from Russia, and my opinion on Putin diverges from yours. I think protecting national interests is far from being imperialist assclown. What makes you think he is an assclown?

If the government's attempts to protect its national interests infringes on the right of another nation to self determination, that is Imperialist.
You say Imperialist like it's something bad.
Logged
._.

Comrade P.

  • Bay Watcher
  • For space is wide and good friends are too few
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #342 on: April 11, 2014, 02:14:05 pm »

Let's have an open dialogue. Hello, I'm Comrade P. and I come from Russia, and my opinion on Putin diverges from yours. I think protecting national interests is far from being imperialist assclown. What makes you think he is an assclown?
If the government's attempts to protect its national interests infringes on the right of another nation to self determination, that is Imperialist.
You still refuse to say that Crimean referendum was an act of free will?

Let's have an open dialogue. Hello, I'm Comrade P. and I come from Russia, and my opinion on Putin diverges from yours. I think protecting national interests is far from being imperialist assclown. What makes you think he is an assclown?

If the government's attempts to protect its national interests infringes on the right of another nation to self determination, that is Imperialist.
You say Imperialist like it's something bad.
Woo-hoo, imperialists still exist out there, I'm glad.
EDIT: No, really glad.
Logged
Sigs

Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?

Owlbread

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #343 on: April 11, 2014, 02:16:13 pm »

You still refuse to say that Crimean referendum was an act of free will?

That's not what we're talking about right now at all, but I shall still answer. The Crimean referendum was an "act of free will" undertaken in a situation engineered by Russia to lead to an outcome that would suit it i.e. the occupation process, the demonization of the Ukrainian government in the Russian press and so on. If the referendum had taken place in a peaceful Ukraine without Russian Nationalist flagwaving and grandstanding and occupying from Putin and his government and all that it would have probably failed.

Quote
Woo-hoo, imperialists still exist out there, I'm glad.

Why? Why on earth would you be glad?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 02:18:17 pm by Owlbread »
Logged

gogis

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post - USSR and other Eastern European Politics Thread
« Reply #344 on: April 11, 2014, 02:16:58 pm »

Let's have an open dialogue. Hello, I'm Comrade P. and I come from Russia, and my opinion on Putin diverges from yours. I think protecting national interests is far from being imperialist assclown. What makes you think he is an assclown?

I keep asking myself that things like that "assclown" is regarded as derogatory. Or not? What? Wait? Should I react?

I am genuinely surprised that my outbursts is regarded to me being typical Putin-pro retard (which I am not). If I didnt expressed enough that I HURT reading most stuff here, then whatever. I realise that "they" don't understand. They can't relate after all.

Well, I am going to be honest right now. Same way I became atheist from agnostic after pressure being done. I am now really, really proponent anti west, and I going to hate you, generally speaking. And pro Putin. Thank you. I join mainstream. Bye.
Logged
In Soviet Russia cigarette smokes you
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 136