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[IndigoFenix]

Thinking about the possibility of making Boundworlds playable on a phone.  On the one hand, given its open-world and exploratory nature, it could do well as a casual phone game I think.  On the other hand, phone control schemes are quite different than keyboard oriented ones, which means that for a game to function well on both, the number of things that are possible will probably have to be reduced...

On the other hand, maybe streamlining the game as a whole wouldn't be such a bad thing.  Is it important for a world building and exploring game to have platforming action, shmup arcade gameplay, and a hitbox-based fighting system?  Or is a mildly action RPG where you click where you want to go and who you want to attack or talk to enough?  I haven't been getting much feedback on these ideas, maybe I'm overcomplicating things.

Maybe part of my problem is that I'm trying to make BW be too many things at once.  It was originally supposed to be a world building game focused on exploration and individual storytelling.  Just because it can have an elaborate physics system doesn't mean it should...

[Arx]

If you want to... overcommit, I guess, you could have a set type of world that works on mobile. Runs the risk of spreading things too thin, though.

[Kamani]

Don't know if Boundworlds would work on phone or not. I do like the variety of things that can be done, but I don't know if they are needed.

[Asgarus]

Thinking about the possibility of making Boundworlds playable on a phone.  On the one hand, given its open-world and exploratory nature, it could do well as a casual phone game I think.  On the other hand, phone control schemes are quite different than keyboard oriented ones, which means that for a game to function well on both, the number of things that are possible will probably have to be reduced...

On the other hand, maybe streamlining the game as a whole wouldn't be such a bad thing.  Is it important for a world building and exploring game to have platforming action, shmup arcade gameplay, and a hitbox-based fighting system?  Or is a mildly action RPG where you click where you want to go and who you want to attack or talk to enough?  I haven't been getting much feedback on these ideas, maybe I'm overcomplicating things.

Maybe part of my problem is that I'm trying to make BW be too many things at once.  It was originally supposed to be a world building game focused on exploration and individual storytelling.  Just because it can have an elaborate physics system doesn't mean it should...

You could limit the mobile functionality to just exploring and playing other players' mini games.
Limiting the whole game just so that mobile players have the same possibilities as PC players is not a good solution in my opinion.
I don't think anyone would expect a mobile game to be more than it can be.
Leave the editing and creating stuff to the PC players at first, and maybe add a few simple editing tools for mobile players later.

But whatever you do, make it step by step, not all at once, but I don't think I have to tell you that
The physics system though is something I would add rather sooner than later.

[IndigoFenix]

I've been experimenting with various options for phone play alongside working out exactly how the regular PC controls interact with physics.  To be fair, most keyboards already limit the number of buttons that can be held down at a time, so it's not all that different.  Basically it means that there will be more pressing buttons one at a time and less holding things down.

I made a passable phone-friendly D-pad to substitute for the arrow keys, and am working on the "technique" and targeting systems together.  Since playing as different types of sprites is going to be one of the main fun things you can do (either through transformation or body swapping) the control scheme has to be fairly flexible to accommodate all or at least the majority of "normal" creatures' abilities.

The default scheme will probably be more leaning towards the RPG side of action-RPG.  Maybe something akin to Secret of Mana mixed with Chrono Trigger; not strictly turn-based but where there is a bit of cooldown time between attacks where you can move around to reposition yourself and select your next technique.  Of course, if you simply make the cooldowns short enough it becomes full action, so the system becomes pretty flexible.  The hardest part of this is figuring out what to do with sprites that have poor handling (low friction or slow turning speed) and therefore cannot be relied on to move into the positions they are aiming for, causing their attacks to go all over the place.  But I guess if you make hard to control sprites that's probably more or less what you want to happen.

There's also a fairly elaborate knockback system that has to be worked out; basically knockback can be converted into flinching, staggering backwards, and falling over depending on a creature's balance stats, and repeated blows can cause their brain to take damage, reducing balance and making them easier to knock over, where they may be vulnerable to certain techniques.  All these stats are optional though, basically the idea is that you can make the mechanics of a creature either simple or complex depending on how much effort you want to put into its design.  Sort of like Dwarf Fortress and its various immunity tokens, except that here being immune to everything is the default state.

[Kamani]

Any kind of base tilesets? I don't really have anything to use.

[IndigoFenix]

OpenGameArt has a ton of free resources.  Just make sure to only use resources with a CC license, at least until I work out exactly what the legal status of created worlds is.

I am still working on this by the way, I'm just avoiding posting too much until I get the physics straightened out.  Sprite attributes under the "motion and physics" category may be subject to change, aside from basic ones like speed, acceleration, and gravity.  Leaving values at their defaults makes them irrelevant; for example giving a speed value but leaving acceleration and friction at -1 will make them move at a fixed speed.  In this way simpler units will have simpler behaviors.

There will probably be an unlocking system to ease players into the world building without overwhelming them with too many complicated options at once.  So for now just pretend the more complex physics options don't exist.

I did make some quality of life changes that were in demand like menu categories and movable menu boxes.

[Kamani]

Yeah, I have only used the simple functions. I just didn't have any good tile sets to use. I will look at OpenGameArt. Thank you!

[IndigoFenix]

Okay, it's been a while since I've updated this post, so let me just fill everyone in on what's been changed:

First and foremost, there is now a proper file system for uploading images to the server.  Every user has their own file system and can add files and folders as they like, as well as access some public resources for sprites and tilesets.  You can access the file system by clicking on the "manage" button under any graphic viewer.  I'll add new public images over time.  This will also be used for managing other resources, like sounds and music.

The sprite graphic system is much more flexible as well.  You can flip individual frames horizontally or vertically, letting you use smaller spritesheets.  There are also a whole bunch of options for handling sprite directions, in addition to 4 cardinal directions you can use 4 diagonal directions, or even simplify sprites to only allow facing east and west.  Both of these options, combined with horizontal flipping, let you create decent-looking sprites with much less effort.

Some options have been added to the "basic player interaction" menu for sprites, specifically the ability to transform the player into another sprite and back again.  I did this because I want transformations into different creatures to be a major part of the game.

The combat system is still being fine-tuned, but here is a general rundown of how it will work:

Every combat-capable sprite has a list of techniques.  Techniques are similar to functions in that they are basically a list of events, but with a few differences:
Techniques can be triggered by either the AI or by player controls (while transformed into a given sprite).  Every technique has an independent cooldown timer and may have MP requirements, minimum and maximum range to a target before it can be triggered, and other conditions which must be met before it can be used.
A techniques is tied to an animation, and each frame of the animation (called "keyframes") can have its own list of events.  Events include creating hitboxes, altering the user's stats, and changing momentum.  Techniques can alter "poise" on a frame-by-frame basis, which basically amounts to "super armor".  They can also have data for general cancels and canceling into other particular techniques.
Hitboxes have independent values for both damage and force.

As for the combat itself, every sprite may have, in addition to HP, a "poise damage" meter, which is increased by taking "force" hits and recovers over time.  Every sprite may also have a flinch point, a stagger point, and a knockdown point.  When poise damage reaches these points, the sprite will flinch, be knocked back (based on the remaining force of the attack divided by their mass), or fall down.
Sprites will also have "brain" meters.  Brain damage will reduce a sprite's ability to recover poise, making it easier to stun them or send them reeling farther with powerful hits.  (Sort of like Smash Bros, or maybe Punch-Out...?)
There may also be other meters, like blood, food, and stamina.

All of these stats will be optional and determined on a sprite-by-sprite basis; for example you can imagine a Koopa Troopa as being an extremely simple sprite with a "knockdown point" that allows it to be "flipped" with an attack, all the way up to a complex Dark Souls type enemy with specific stats for each of its various techniques, counters, and so on.

[Kamani]

Neat! My watch post button seems to have failed, so I missed it until now. Oops.

[IndigoFenix]

Just to give the latest news:

The technique system and controls are coming along rather nicely.  If you'd rather check it out first hand rather than hear me talk about it, just open the Arena room, where you can play as three testing characters and fight against a non-stop horde of spiders.  (I have nothing against spiders, really, they just happen to be a convenient enemy sprite I had on my computer.  I will have to make a friendly spider to make up for all the spider abuse.)

The three testing characters are Freydin the Dark Knight, Joe the Ronin, and Ronald the Gunslinger.  (OC donut steel)  The cool thing is how simple it is to create new characters that feel completely different.

You use the shift key to lock on to enemies and the Z, X, and C keys to use different skills.  There is also a system for interrupts, where you can cancel one skill into a different skill, as demonstrated by the Ronin's Slice and Dice technique (X to dash, C to return to the original spot) and the Gunslinger's six-shooter (hold the Z button for multishot).

You can also do it on mobile by clicking the skill buttons, though the phone controls are clunky and awkward by comparison.

There's still quite a bit left to be done before the combat system is done (projectiles are still under construction, and sidescrolling sections open up a whole bunch of other issues, which will be resolved along with 3D dash maneuvers) but I would appreciate comments on how the action feels and any improvements you can think of.

[Kamani]

Good to see the start of combat.

[Retropunch]

Looks good!

I personally feel though that combat in this sort of game should be a bit less hack'n'slash - I'd instead say you should have abilities that fire less often, but do a lot more damage (for both the player and monsters).

So lets say you're OC Roland, you could do some high accuracy shooting, but you'd be fixed in place whilst that charges up. In the mean time, spiders have a 'charge' ability, which needs a few seconds whilst they get ready to attack.

It'd become more of a game of timing and tactics rather than button mashing which I think would fit the game play much better.

[IndigoFenix]

That's a fair assessment.  It would certainly make playing on a phone more viable.

The technique creation system is quite flexible though, so it's basically up to the world builder how twitchy or tactical they want their world's combat to feel - I made the demo characters quick because it's harder to make that feel natural so it serves better as a proof of concept.  I guess the only major decision to make concerns the default player character's physics, since ideally they should feel natural in as many worlds as possible.  Maybe I'll make their basic attack chargeable.

[Retropunch]

Whilst it's up to the designer, I'd still encourage you moving towards one sort of play or the other.

I worry that if you left it open it wouldn't really work - lets say you have a world that has 30 enemies rushing you at once, compared to a world where you're tactically taking on 1 enemy at a time, the combat would have to be fundamentally different. You couldn't have a 2 second charge up on your main attack if you were dealing with 30 enemies.

Not to retread old ground, but as admirable as giving world creators as much freedom as possible is, I really think you run the risk of it all becoming just a lot of systems that sorttttt of work together rather than some great core systems that people can build their adventures around. If you want it to be a super mario esque bash-em-up then that's great, or if you want it to be a Dark Souls combat online then that's great too - but I really don't think you can do both well.