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[Leafsnail]

The only other player who claimed IAC is MOWE.  I presume the other one went to Jack.  But I don't even see how this has anything to do with the core of my argument.

[Tiruin]

If she lied--then you have one lesser target. If she lied--then that would hold NF at a disadvantage given the lack of a pro-TOWN power.
If she lied, then somehow, scum would be taking infallible alignment cop.

Which is silly.

What it does have to do with your argument is that is a saboteur to your foundation. MOWE is nigh proven town given that case. Nobody else claimed alignment cop.

[Leafsnail]

I made it clear that the IAC came from Tawa's Santa.  Remember, we established that you don't choose what power you get from Santa.

[Leafsnail]

You bought 4mask's argument even though it relies on exactly the same premise, so why is this a sticking point now?

[Tiruin]

Yeah, and only in your hypothetical scenario.
While we do have all Santa's accounted for--we have Jim and Tawa. Could you expound on that idea regarding the Santa event, sure, let's say IAC is the note--why one over the other Santa?

PPE: How exactly?

[Leafsnail]

Tawa has to be the liar because Jim basically claimed the gift before I said I had it.  It would be a very impressive trick if he could predict both the existence of another Santa and also who they were targeting.

My point was that you didn't seem to question the idea of the mafia using Santa to falseclaim when 4mask suggested it.

[Tiruin]

And this is why I like talking to you, LS. You're particularly shrewd. You've been setting me up since the past note on that Santa gift, which nobody can confirm (due mainly to that you did claim Protect; Objective claimed Protect, being an implied confidant to the scumteam). And that I had a sucky build that would be more than tempting to undermine.
Considering that you would also pick Miller to follow your first note on it--in regard of it being a mechanic and less of a detail on alignment--that is particularly brilliant of you.
You're very good at shaking foundations.
^{And here I thought this wouldn't be fun.}
Let me setup a counter argument.

-snip-

While I do like that you're using my weakness in making a build (yeah, sure.) to your advantage, I explicitly like how you're using every darn advantage in the conventional rulebook to disclaim against not one--but two townies (in which I say me and MOWE; but that's to be proven anyway...well, me, not MOWE, anyway).

Spoiler: Let's snip everything from the list that was claimed by everyone else, sans MOWE, me, you, DS, Tawa (click to show/hide)

POWERS
Convert - Tiruin
Hide - DS
Inflate - MOWE;
Infallible Alignment Cop - "Gift" from Tawa's Santa to MOWE
Protect - Objective
Protect - MOWE
Recycle - Leafsnail
Santa - Tawa // 'Bought'
Sap - Leafsnail

AUTOS
Bloodthirsty - Tawa
Bloodthirsty -
Clear Minded - MOWE
Day - LS
Free - LS
Immune to Night Kills - Tawa
Innocent -
Innocent - Objective

FLAWS
Blatant - Tiruin
Dense - Tiruin
Dense -
Hardcore - Tawa
Hardcore - Leafsnail
Magnetic - MOWE
Magnetic - Tawa
Miller - !!! Either LS/Tiruin based on ORIGINAL CLAIMS

Objective was removed since it seems we both agree on his composition being.

Protect
Sap
Innocent
+1 point free

[and being Obvscum due to lacking the Miller that TDS originally had]
And do note: I checked the list and removed that which the spoiler does not dictate is in it.
So we only have one Miller claim around extra if we don't take in LS/me. [4mask, Jim, mastah, Jack, TDS (I believe we all missed this)

Now to this; I do believe you took excruciating detail into account, probably? I orange'd out what you picked and what is claimed in your theory (the list above is all powers/autos/flaws that belong to the five people in question, with MOWE/TIR/TAWA as the 'Theory' and the rest going to the ORIGINAL CLAIMANTS and unclaimed things):

Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)

Convert (7)
Blatant (-1)
Dense (-1)
(note: no miller, explaining the fact one is missing)
Total points left over: 0

Spoiler: MOWE (click to show/hide)

Town at start of game
Free Protect (4)
Inflate (1)
Clear Minded (1)
Magnetic (-2)
Points left: 2

Spoiler: Tawa (click to show/hide)

Santa (4)
Immune to Kills (5)
Bloodthirsty (1)
Magnetic (-2)
Hardcore (-1)
(buys kill immunity or Santa after gaining two points in the day)
(gives Infallible Alignment Cop to a mafia member as a gift)

Ok, let's say Tawa really did bloodthirst out P-mask. D1 Votecount

Here are a few loopholes:
> Miller Count Claims. We're actually over one Miller point.
> You'll have MOWE, who is adamantly town, shove a drill down your throat for your lies. Figuratively of course. :x
> We're still missing one Bloodthirsty
> There is ONE slot missing for Innocent [the other Innocent is already in the Obj. quote above]
> Missing one Dense.


...Also I'm still waiting on that list of reads I asked you to give.

You bought 4mask's argument even though it relies on exactly the same premise, so why is this a sticking point now?

...You did read what I said, right? However I see where it shifts: What 'same' premise is that?
And why did you follow it up?

Spoiler: Bleh ignore (click to show/hide)

Edit:
Wait, just checked BOTH result lists and the original
Free+[ability] shows differently as:
[Ability]
Free

...So why does mastahcheese have 2 Scans with only 1 scan listed (...and another sap listed)? Unless I'm messing up again?
...Unless Mr. Cheese means Free//Day.
...Err, yeah. Edited for relevancy. Ignore please.

References:
Leaf's best theory(?)
Jim's list
4mask's list
The Original List.

[Tiruin]

...However I'm forgetful. Did TDS literally forget he had miller in the first place?

[TheDarkStar]

...However I'm forgetful. Did TDS literally forget he had miller in the first place?

What do you mean?

[Tiruin]

You had miller. Objective didn't claim it. Then what NQT said that if miller > scum then no miller. Therefore obvscum.

[TheDarkStar]

You had miller. Objective didn't claim it. Then what NQT said that if miller > scum then no miller. Therefore obvscum.

Yeah, that's part of the evidence for Objective being scum. What you mean by me forgetting it?

[Tiruin]

You had miller. Objective didn't claim it. Then what NQT said that if miller > scum then no miller. Therefore obvscum.

Yeah, that's part of the evidence for Objective being scum. What you mean by me forgetting it?

Erh, wherein people assumed there was 1 miller claim too litt-
...
I must not parse glass half-empty/full things at 3am. Sorry.

[Tiruin]

No wait, got that right. We're one miller claim too little so someone is lying on that conferred +1 point.

[Leafsnail]

And this is why I like talking to you, LS. You're particularly shrewd. You've been setting me up since the past note on that Santa gift, which nobody can confirm (due mainly to that you did claim Protect; Objective claimed Protect, being an implied confidant to the scumteam). And that I had a sucky build that would be more than tempting to undermine.

Why do you have such a sucky build again?  In any case I don't see what you're saying about Protect.  I got it last night and that claim doesn't clash with anyone else's.

While I do like that you're using my weakness in making a build (yeah, sure.) to your advantage, I explicitly like how you're using every darn advantage in the conventional rulebook to disclaim against not one--but two townies (in which I say me and MOWE; but that's to be proven anyway...well, me, not MOWE, anyway).

What makes you think MOWE is town?  And what, were you expecting me to say the person who lied about getting a guilty on me is town?


As explained before TDS's miller vanished, explaining the discrepancy.  There are the right number of Bloodthirstys in my theory: 3 (Native, Jack, Tawa).  Innocent is something I missed but that's trivially easy to fix (move Bloodthirsty/whatever from Tawa to MOWE and then give Tawa innocent).  Same for Dense, you can literally just shove it on anyone and it would make no difference.

But anyway the exact distribution of powers isn't that important.  What's more important is that you can be scum even without a Native partner, and what's more your actions in the day and your claim strongly imply it.  That's enough for me to want you lynched.

For my reads.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tiruin: Misled everyone day one, lied about inflate and immune to night kills day two, claimed a blatantly contradictory role.  Scum.
mastahcheese: Haven't gotten any bad vibes off him.  Also doesn't fit into a Tiruin team.  Town.
4maskwolf: I found his sudden theory burst suspicious this morning, but I've realized since then that theory isn't as neat as I thought.  Probably town.
Jim Groovester:
Tack: Insanely scummy on day one.  Might just be a terrible player after all.  Town I guess.
NativeForeigner: Null, he hasn't been posting enough.  Doesn't make sense in a Tiruin team but could take her place, now that I think about it.  Neutral, I'd like to talk to him when he gets back.
Objective: Probably scum, it's difficult to think why TDS would lie in that way and it explains the lack of a fourth Bloodthirsty
OwnWorstEnemy: Lying scum
Deathsword/Persus13: Has barely posted, null.  4mask's theory made a lot of sense but it doesn't explain the Tiruin oddities.
Tawarochir: Lying scum
Jack A T: Town I guess?  His actions have mostly been ok and with Tack not in the scumteam I can't see much way for him to be in.
TheDarkStar: Probably town, see above.  I think a lot of his reasoning has been wrong but it seems mostly townie.

[Leafsnail]

*Jim Groovester: Basically confirmed his gift last night, and I find it unlikely he'd clash his claim with Tawa in the way he'd have to be doing for him to be scum.  Town.