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[Tiruin]

4mask: Answering my question would help.

Tawarochir: Read the above.

[4maskwolf]

4mask: Answering my question would help.

Tawarochir: Read the above.

Questions?  The one about itnk?  Lolz, that was a stupid mistake, fixed in the most recent update, have a nice day.

[Tiruin]

...Why did you say you were insane earlier?

[Leafsnail]

Does this build not make sense to anyone else? Why take magnetic with protect when you already have Night Kill Immune? Why not take Unable to Vote instead so your protects always succeed? Why take inflate at all?

It makes absolutely no sense as town, certainly.  The scum are obviously never going to perform a kill, so why pack so much kill-resistance?  I can sortof buy it as a bad scumbuild though.

Leafsnail, what the heck? Why do you assume I'm the lying one?

Because Jim clearly demonstrated that he knew about the gift before I claimed it.

Leafsnail:
How very creative. You start shoving accusations off on me. Suddenly I'm the converter. Because I know you're scum. What argument do you have against me aside from the fact that I'm "obviously lying" due to your bullshit point claim? There's more than one way to spend an exact amount of points.

The point claim doesn't prove I'm not scum, but it would be basically impossible for me to be a converter with 8 spare points.

The two actual arguments I'm using (one of which you decided to completely sidestep) are that your actions before night 1 are not consistent with me being your prime suspect, and that your first post on day 2 is not consistent with you just receiving perfect proof that I am guilty.

You want to know why I waited to claim? I didn't want to just claim. I wanted to dig up dirt on you to prove you're scum with more than just a claim as cop. When I read about the mass claim, I figured I should claim, lest the scum claim before me.

Why would you need to "dig up dirt"?  An infallible inspection is the best kind of dirt there is - you supposedly knew I was 100% scum before asking me that pointless question (which didn't even have a vote attached to it).

I'm also not sure why the scum claiming before you would be a bad thing.

To be clear, my argument is as follows: your first post today clearly isn't something that a townie with the knowledge "Leafsnail is definitely scum" would make.  That proves that you decided to lie about the result later.

[4maskwolf]

Lolz.

Native is scum.

Just sayin.

[TheDarkStar]

Lolz.

Native is scum.

Just sayin.

How do you know?

[Tiruin]

Does this build not make sense to anyone else? Why take magnetic with protect when you already have Night Kill Immune? Why not take Unable to Vote instead so your protects always succeed? Why take inflate at all?

It makes absolutely no sense as town, certainly.  The scum are obviously never going to perform a kill, so why pack so much kill-resistance?  I can sortof buy it as a bad scumbuild though.

Here's passive-aggressive Leafsnail talking~
Look at how concise he is!

Try to think it from a town-viewpoint, scumbag.

Leafsnail, what the heck? Why do you assume I'm the lying one?

Because Jim clearly demonstrated that he knew about the gift before I claimed it.

So you don't see anything else Tawa said as lying, huh?

Leafsnail:
How very creative. You start shoving accusations off on me. Suddenly I'm the converter. Because I know you're scum. What argument do you have against me aside from the fact that I'm "obviously lying" due to your bullshit point claim? There's more than one way to spend an exact amount of points.

The point claim doesn't prove I'm not scum, but it would be basically impossible for me to be a converter with 8 spare points.

The two actual arguments I'm using (one of which you decided to completely sidestep) are that your actions before night 1 are not consistent with me being your prime suspect, and that your first post on day 2 is not consistent with you just receiving perfect proof that I am guilty.

You want to know why I waited to claim? I didn't want to just claim. I wanted to dig up dirt on you to prove you're scum with more than just a claim as cop. When I read about the mass claim, I figured I should claim, lest the scum claim before me.

Why would you need to "dig up dirt"?  An infallible inspection is the best kind of dirt there is - you supposedly knew I was 100% scum before asking me that pointless question (which didn't even have a vote attached to it).

I'm also not sure why the scum claiming before you would be a bad thing.

To be clear, my argument is as follows: your first post today clearly isn't something that a townie with the knowledge "Leafsnail is definitely scum" would make.  That proves that you decided to lie about the result later.

I like how BOTH of you forget that Leafsnail claimed miller~
That includes Leafsnail not bringing that idea up.

To be clear, my argument is as follows: your first post today clearly isn't something that a townie with the knowledge "Leafsnail is definitely scum" would make.  That proves that you decided to lie about the result later.

Could you prove this, LS? There's a cause-effect-proof thing I see here, but I don't see how it follows.

[Tiruin]

Lolz.

Native is scum.

Just sayin.

How do you know?

Oh sure, address him and ignore me.

[Tack]

Also native's fortunetellings have matched up very well. So if he was scum, he would've taken fortune teller. A brilliant plan, but not if you're after a quick win.

[Tiruin]

That, or he might've just manipulated the subtle aspects and let the scumteam claim the few that were manipulated: if that's the case, then a brilliant ploy it is, with a hard coded part on the act of the scumteam.

Also native's fortunetellings have matched up very well. So if he was scum, he would've taken fortune teller. A brilliant plan, but not if you're after a quick win.

How?

[4maskwolf]

lol.

Sane 4mask is back on duty.

Native is not scum, or is at least bad at playing it.

I know who the converter is.

Leafy is scum, but not converter.

Tawarochir is innocent.

I'll post my rationale in just a moment.

[Leafsnail]

Here's passive-aggressive Leafsnail talking~
Look at how concise he is!

Try to think it from a town-viewpoint, scumbag.

I already tried, and decided it was impossible.  If you disagree then give your reasons for making that build.

By the way, this is a really dumb request.  It's up to you to explain your own thought processes, not other people.

So you don't see anything else Tawa said as lying, huh?

The post I made implies nothing of the sort.

I like how BOTH of you forget that Leafsnail claimed miller~
That includes Leafsnail not bringing that idea up.

Look, Tiruin.  Can you please take some time to actually check what's going on in the game before posting?  There is a compilation of every roleclaim in the game just a few posts up from yours.

MOWE claimed Infallible Alignment Cop, which ignores miller.

Could you prove this, LS? There's a cause-effect-proof thing I see here, but I don't see how it follows.

I am referring to the posts I made back when MOWE claimed.  You can re-read those if you like.  I am basically pointing out that if she knew I was scum, 100%, she should have at least voted me and called for my lynch.  Or claimed.

[mastahcheese]

lol.
Sane 4mask is back on duty.
Native is not scum, or is at least bad at playing it.
I know who the converter is.
Leafy is scum, but not converter.
Tawarochir is innocent.
I'll post my rationale in just a moment.

I really hope you explain this.

[Tiruin]

Explain please. :v

Imean, considering Tawa's own acts and such--I'm more than liable to count him off as flailing town (especially given how he reacted to his mistake on TDS) but the voting patterns...do not help. It's less of flippancy and more of reactionality.

Native is not scum, or is at least bad at playing it.

K. How is he bad at playing it?

lol.

Sane 4mask is back on duty.

Explain. :I

Leafy is scum, but not converter.

...We already agreed on that.

How do you view TDS/Objective, 4mask

PPE:

Here's passive-aggressive Leafsnail talking~
Look at how concise he is!

Try to think it from a town-viewpoint, scumbag.

I already tried, and decided it was impossible.  If you disagree then give your reasons for making that build.

By the way, this is a really dumb request.  It's up to you to explain your own thought processes, not other people.

You never state how you try though. You instantly conclude~

Also, it ain't a dumb request when you think. Upright in denouncing it, good sir?

So you don't see anything else Tawa said as lying, huh?

The post I made implies nothing of the sort.

This statement implies evasion to a simple question.

I like how BOTH of you forget that Leafsnail claimed miller~
That includes Leafsnail not bringing that idea up.

Look, Tiruin.  Can you please take some time to actually check what's going on in the game before posting?  There is a compilation of every roleclaim in the game just a few posts up from yours.

MOWE claimed Infallible Alignment Cop, which ignores miller.

I was...err, being deliberately obtuse there. Should've made my tone clearer, sorry.

Could you prove this, LS? There's a cause-effect-proof thing I see here, but I don't see how it follows.

I am referring to the posts I made back when MOWE claimed.  You can re-read those if you like.  I am basically pointing out that if she knew I was scum, 100%, she should have at least voted me and called for my lynch.  Or claimed.

I did read them--while you do have a point, it was a 1-post difference so I'm partly unsure how that makes a certainty from the idea.

It makes sense in the way that the delay between the given result, and the timing follows when you say 'dig up dirt', meaning: checking the reaction, and pushing on it.

Leafsnail:
How very creative. You start shoving accusations off on me. Suddenly I'm the converter. Because I know you're scum. What argument do you have against me aside from the fact that I'm "obviously lying" due to your bullshit point claim? There's more than one way to spend an exact amount of points.

You want to know why I waited to claim? I didn't want to just claim. I wanted to dig up dirt on you to prove you're scum with more than just a claim as cop. When I read about the mass claim, I figured I should claim, lest the scum claim before me.

By this.

Problem being, how does this put her into being the converter when the only thing she claimed was IACop? She stated earlier, back in D1, what seems more to be sincere confusion in regard to her build (as I remember, the miller-debate). We're missing quite a few autos/powers from the list, in which I quote 4mask:

A few things to say about these results:
All bloodthirsty's have been claimed, and this is without taking objective's claim into account.
There are two hardcore's and one dense unclaimed.
Protect, convert, and align cop unclaimed
clear minded and innocent are unclaimed.
I'll get up more stuff later.

(Seriously? Tack claimed Cop and he did state he inspected me earlier as scum--I'm a miller, and I did not show any doubt on his reasoning at all, otherwise he'd be really in a bad spot if he saw town on me, also explains why I trust Tack fully).
Also I find it strange that the other last Protect is unclaimed.

Anyway: We've got a total of 9 points unaccounted for (convert/clear minded/innocent), with protect being placed in a zone of ambiguity (though I question why clear minded would be given to a convert...probably on the off chance it hits scum?) with a repeatable hardcore, and 1 dense.

What I'm wondering is, is on how anything points at MOWE being a converter. At all.

PPE: Blarghgh!
Hi Mr. Cheese.

[4maskwolf]

okay, everybody listen up.

Here is my theory, based on the fortune telling results.

When taking a look at the claims, a couple of things show up.  Here are the relevant parts of the massclaim.

Spoiler: Leafsnail (click to show/hide)

Sap
Day on Sap
Recycle
Hardcore
Miller

Unclaimed Santa Gift
1 point left at night one start

Spoiler: Deathsword (click to show/hide)

Miller
Hide
1 point left at night 1 start

Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)

Flavour Inspect
Day on Flavour Inspect
Bloodthirsty
Count
Miller
Blatant

Unclaimed Santa Gift

2 points left at night 1 start

Spoiler: Relevant Parts of Fortune Teller Results (click to show/hide)

POWERS
Convert (unclaimed)
Hide (claimed by Deathsword)
Infallible Alignment Cop (unclaimed)
Protect (unclaimed)
Santa (claimed by Groovester)
Santa (Claimed by Tawarochir)

AUTOS
Clear Minded (unclaimed)
Innocent (unclaimed (duh))
Prolific (claimed by Groovester)

FLAWS
Dense (unclaimed)
Hardcore (unclaimed)
Hardcore (unclaimed)
Miller (extra claim, too many miller claims by one)

Now.  Here are the situation as it currently stands.  Jim and Tawarochir have each claimed to have given a gift to Leafsnail, and Jim gave a gift to Jack.  This lines up EXACTLY with the three remaining unclaimed powers.  HOWEVER, Leafy claims to have only received one gift in the night, which you sheep believed without question.  However, something stood out to me as fishy about Deathsword's claim, and here it is:
If you take away hide and miller, give him hardcore, dense, and convert, you have three powers that have been given out to the Leafsnail and Jack.  This also gets rid of the additional miller that was claimed.  Now, take a look at the remaining flaws and autos.  Either the clearminded or the innocent was purchased with the point from the final hardcore, which was taken by someone out there.  The last was bought with miscellaneous points.  This not only wraps up the ENTIRE fortune teller list, but explains why Leafsnail WILL NOT reveal his santa gift: because one of them is the hide he is sitting on.  And if he didn't receive hide, then Jack has hide and is scum as well, because the scum communicated with one another to get the Deathsword falseclaim operational.  Note that NONE of the other claims are a six point power and miller EXCEPT MINE, and that is what is required for the whole thing to make sense, because they would have had to ditch a six point power to get everything.  However, note that I am also blatant, and could not have had dense or Cheese's results would make no sense.  He said I have one point left, and if I had dense, convert, and hardcore instead of miller and kill I would have 0 points left.

This means that Tawarochir is obviously town, because there is no reason for Leaf to lie if he was scum, because they need to work together.

PPE:
Oh, hi Tiruin.  Objective is the third scum, and Native would be playing scum poorly if he was because if he played it well, he would have created reasonable falseclaims for his buddies to take, not leaving loopholes for me to find and push at.  That means that we only need to find ONE more scum, and if we lynch Deathsword today it will be considerably more difficult for them to pick up convert again.  Plus, Tiruin, you can inflate convert until they can't use it.  Fun times all around.  And you could make the inflate free, thus allowing you to do it twice.