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Author Topic: Gun Francisco (conworld) - deviantArt, attention split etc.  (Read 11666 times)

WhitiusOpus

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2014, 10:48:37 pm »

PTW, as this is a cool idea and I'm glad you're continuing to work on it, and haven't dropped the idea.

Although, I must wonder - why Gun Francisco? Why is this not call Guncisco?
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flame99

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2014, 11:01:41 pm »

This game sounds so cool! I'd love to play it if it gets finished. I'd also like to help with the project, but I really can't actually do anything helpful in relation to it  :'(
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Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2014, 03:42:20 am »

PTW, as this is a cool idea and I'm glad you're continuing to work on it, and haven't dropped the idea.

Although, I must wonder - why Gun Francisco? Why is this not call Guncisco?

I don't know, but Gun Francisco sounds cooler and a bit more punny.
Although the actual city is still San Francisco. /me shrugs

Anyway, I haven't got to do much lately, but I'm not abandoning the project, even if I'm slow as all molasses.
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Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2014, 04:29:21 am »

Actually my last statement was not entirely true, I did work on something that may be quite important later on.
The interface. I want it to be minimalistic (much like the rest of the game) while immediately providing the player with the relevant information.

Spoiler: Big-ish image (click to show/hide)

I think it may be too big right now (not just because it's zoomed), and I will try to make it a bit cleaner so it obstructs a lesser portion of the screens (in particular the mutation screens may be the big offenders in that regard).
Although I guess after making a 1440x990 (which is my native resolution) mockup it looks fine, but I have yet to figure out how it would actually look in-game.
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tompliss

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2014, 01:36:41 pm »

Little comments about this :
On the top left is the health, and each of those LEDs (those are LEDs, yeah) represents one HP point. I may also add a numeric counter next to it instead, but I'm not entirely sure yet.
It feels weird having that many LEDs. I know many of us have played the Gameboy Zelda(s), where you had many hearts worth of HP, but you began with 3 and you could gain the HP lost really easily (so it didn't matter whether you had 8 or 10 HP after fighting a mob because you would go back to your max breaking the jars in the room). Here, it feels counter-intuitive. The player won't know how many HP he has left without spending time counting, and I still have to find a game where counting your HPs is fun.

On the top right are the mutations screens, which indicate what mutations the player has evolved. (currently I've set the limit to three)
This may be unnecessary. Indeed, you need to display the mutations to the player, but they seem long-term entities, so the player may not have to check them and they may not be hard to remember (as they're only maximum 3 ).

On the bottom right are the three weapon slots (red = primary; blue = melee; green = explosive)
I find it weird. I know this is more a feeling than anything else, as there aren't any real convention for weapon order recently. I will always have Doom in my head, where you have short-range / long-range / explosive.
It may also be relative to the danger rating of the enemies : "easy" can be handled in melee without a risk, "normal" will be taken out with SMG/shotung to be effective, "hard" will require explosive because the player will use his most powerful weapons.
:)
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Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2014, 02:20:02 pm »

Little comments about this :
On the top left is the health, and each of those LEDs (those are LEDs, yeah) represents one HP point. I may also add a numeric counter next to it instead, but I'm not entirely sure yet.
It feels weird having that many LEDs. I know many of us have played the Gameboy Zelda(s), where you had many hearts worth of HP, but you began with 3 and you could gain the HP lost really easily (so it didn't matter whether you had 8 or 10 HP after fighting a mob because you would go back to your max breaking the jars in the room). Here, it feels counter-intuitive. The player won't know how many HP he has left without spending time counting, and I still have to find a game where counting your HPs is fun.

On the top right are the mutations screens, which indicate what mutations the player has evolved. (currently I've set the limit to three)
This may be unnecessary. Indeed, you need to display the mutations to the player, but they seem long-term entities, so the player may not have to check them and they may not be hard to remember (as they're only maximum 3 ).

On the bottom right are the three weapon slots (red = primary; blue = melee; green = explosive)
I find it weird. I know this is more a feeling than anything else, as there aren't any real convention for weapon order recently. I will always have Doom in my head, where you have short-range / long-range / explosive.
It may also be relative to the danger rating of the enemies : "easy" can be handled in melee without a risk, "normal" will be taken out with SMG/shotung to be effective, "hard" will require explosive because the player will use his most powerful weapons.
:)

All of these sound reasonable. As I said, this was only the first version and I'm willing to change it.

I'll change the HP to be more easy to look at without having to count the LEDs (I may still leave them in but put a little counter next to them)...I will experiment and see how that goes. It does in fact go against my rule of readibility (which is also why I may or may not make the mutations and weapon upgrades directly visible on their sprites, since they could very easily make it hard to tell what you're up against, with a few exceptions such as, say, glowing eyes for the Highlander mutation - small, but still immediately recognizable changes.).

Also the weapon order is weird, I guess, and I've been thinking about another combination ie. primary-explosive-melee (in a bit more TF(2)-style).


This is also why I scrapped the Sniper Rifle in favor of the bow - to make it differ more from the shotgun, since it had a very similar sprite and that way it'll be held differently.
Of course I may have failed that slightly with the melee weapons, but oh well, I believe they're different enough.

Also here are some ideas for weapon mods:

Extended Magazines (SMGs) - +n rounds, +n% reload time
Homing Sensor (Hand Missile) - allows the missile to home onto the nearest enemy, has a short arming time
Bang-for-Buck (Shotgun) - causes the shotgun to knock the user and the enemies hit back a bit (can be used for mobility purposes in a rocket-jump-esque fashion)
Extra Blast Charge (all Explosives) - increases the explosion size by n%.
Rubber Shell (Bow/SMGs/Shotgun?) - allows the projectiles to bounce (ricochet) off terrain
Empowered Shield (Riot Shield) - reflects enemy projectiles, sending them back at the enemies. (user can still be hit by them)

The general idea is that the upgrades, well, are more like sidegrades now, really, even if not directly. (Homing Sensor can sometimes cause the missile to hit an obstacle instead, Extra Blast Charge can result in the player hitting themselves with the increased blast radius, same for Rubber Shell)

They have their advantages, yes, but the existance of (not necessarily direct, except for maybe the Extended Mags) downsides makes players who don't have the modifications bought yet less disadvantaged against players who do.

Of course it might as well be a terrible idea and I should just make upgrades actual upgrades, but we shall see...
Sometime. *shrug*


(Also, I've been considering writing up a short-ish story for this, but I have PhD in procrastinating, so I'm not sure if it'll work out very well...
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Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2014, 10:41:34 am »

Question time!

For a long time something was turning me off about frogs' design. Not the anatomy, but their lack of "post-apocalyptic" clothing (birds and humans got all their pouches and bandanas and scarves and Frogs got nothing).

Recently I got the idea that they should be wearing hoods. Not just because hoods are cool, but because they've gotta protect their moist skins from getting dry on the unforgiving surface.
(Quick sketch with horrible floating hood of doom and an even quicker sprite.)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What do you think? Should the frogmen be rocking their new hoods like the badasses they are or should they go back to their typical clothes?
(of course there will still be variations in frog clothing, like with the trooper I showed, but in general they'll keep the same kinda appearance.)

Basically - yay or nay for hooded frogs?
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darkpaladin109

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2014, 11:24:44 am »

Yay for frog hoods. :P
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Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2014, 10:39:58 am »

Although this one still uses the old HUD which I will change, it probably shows relatively well how I want the game to look like. (alright, it may get a little more refined as far as the backgrounds go, but gets the idea across)
Plus it makes the HUD look less chaotic than I thought.

Big enough to warrant being linked rather than put in a spoiler, I guess.

Also some people over at the Random Things thread may have noticed I made yet another human art which I've also made into an avatar.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2014, 11:14:56 am »

How fast paced do you intend the game to be? I ask because the HUD is very spread out, and it will take you a lot of time for your eyes to travel all the way around the screen to get the information you need.

I refer you to this video on Street Fighter's HUD.

Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2014, 11:31:00 am »

How fast paced do you intend the game to be? I ask because the HUD is very spread out, and it will take you a lot of time for your eyes to travel all the way around the screen to get the information you need.

I refer you to this video on Street Fighter's HUD.

Huh. Well, that changed my outlook on that.

But yeah, I do plan to make the game relatively fast-paced, and the action would be mostly mid-to-close-combat oriented, so I'd probably need to make it less spread out.

I would probably put the most vital information, like health&mutation meters (if I do make them meters) and ammo towards the center, and put mutations and weapon upgrades a bit further away since they're not immediately needed information like the other ones.

Is this my first true design lesson? Maybe, maybe not. But it sure does mean a lot to me.
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2014, 12:01:11 pm »

Glad I helped in my small way.

Mesa

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Re: Gun Francisco - now with animations (sort of)!
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2014, 01:05:21 pm »

Okay, here's a quick redesign I made (as always, it's subject to change):

Here.

I've moved the things more to the center - this allows the player to narrow their their view focus instead of having to look all over the screen for important information.

The more vital data ie. ammunition, health and weapons equipped are at the bottom (the healthbar is also broken up into colors to allow the player to judge their health situation more easily, but I've also added a numeric counter if they want to be more precise about it).
The less important (but important nonetheless) elements ie. mutations (or just glorified experience, really), weapon upgrades and mutations are at the top of the screen - they aren't as vital as the bottom things and they change less often so I've moved them away from the essentials, but they are still located near the center of the screen and so they shouldn't give anyone nystagmus.

It's not exactly in the center, but oh well, my OCD is gonna suffer. Better that than someone else.

(I also did some smaller changes to the pre-existing elements like removed the "inactive" LEDs from the screens, since they were just making the numbers harder to read, to me at least - it's better contrast now.


I am much more satisfied with this sorta design and will probably stick to it. Thanks a lot for the lesson, Game Theory. (and you, MNiI, for letting me know about that video)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 01:26:38 pm by DarkDXZ »
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Gun Francisco - interface design lessons
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2014, 01:21:53 pm »

Oh, that's really nice! I like it!

tompliss

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Re: Gun Francisco - interface design lessons
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2014, 02:18:35 am »

Seems good that way (and I would have made the same comment about the first HUD).

By the way, if you haven't read the thread about Cogmind, you should. His dev posts here (and in his blog) articles about how he is redesigning his roguelike. I have yet to see any decision being made with the reason "because I wanted it so" in there :)
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