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Author Topic: TINKER: Miya's Hubris  (Read 230061 times)

Caellath

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1800 on: January 25, 2016, 08:40:05 pm »

@Electric Flight Pack: Yeah, I was trying to create an electric-powered flight system and noticed the jump pack does jump using electricity instead of rockets so I did what I usually do and tried to create something useful out of a pre-existent item. The jump pack does seem pretty efficient for what it does, but people will probably enjoy having yet another option for flight for when rockets are not the best (or even a) choice.
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Egan_BW

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1801 on: January 26, 2016, 12:53:31 am »

Spoiler: buncha quotes (click to show/hide)
Alright. Anything else we need to do or should I submit this to the council for summary nerfing?
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1802 on: January 26, 2016, 03:36:49 am »

Design: Portable Emergency Room.

A design which implants a device into the user which, when biosensors detect massive & fatal trauma, activates a 1-shot pocket-dimension transfer to a predefined medical treatment area.
For an extra token, it can be activated manually



The idea being the natural evolution of all these brain case escape systems, combined with an equivalent for all the squishes out there who don't want their expensive genemods to go to waste.

Price is presumably high, but hopefully significantly less than the full PD generator.
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Radio Controlled

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1803 on: January 26, 2016, 03:57:12 am »

Quote
I... think so?  I'm having a remarkable degree of difficulty figuring out exactly what you're asking.

Do you want me to go over every tech that you're including in the autocolony thing, and say which bits work and which bits don't?  This is really a place where I'd love bullets and question marks.

Also, this monster put my post over the length limit.  So it gets to sit here all alone, because it's too fat to fit in with everyone else.  Just like a certain general we know.

I dunno either man, pw send me here. Didn't think this was anything that you would do, since it's not exactly a regular tinker thing or an armory entry, but here we are. I guess we can just go over every item one at a time, though I suspect there'll be a very large amount of 'ask pw'.  :-\

Hey, you take that back! Milno isn't that fat! He's just been slacking off of his diet, is all. And really, you wanted the context.
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AoshimaMichio

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1804 on: January 26, 2016, 06:03:29 am »

Universal Chem Thrower extra chemicals:
Doomsday, 10 uses canister, 1 token. Excellent against unarmored civilians.
Haebi Acid, 10 uses canister, 1 token. Makes avatar armor melt.
  Also requires one time purchase of 2 token forcefield shielding. Handle with care.
 
So how does this armory inclusion go?
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1805 on: January 26, 2016, 06:18:38 am »

5 token avatar kill? Ewwwwwwww
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Empiricist

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1806 on: January 27, 2016, 03:31:55 pm »

((Read the following with the voice of a wrestling announcer.))
Prrressenting... the newest squad automatic weapon, the DEFINITIVE solution to all our waste problems and a memorial to the fallen - the General Waste Gun, or GWG for short! You take all of a planet's waste and you pump it straight into a Pocket Dimension, you then feed it straight into a Matter Saver Cartridge, and then straight out, at ABSOLUTELY ludicrous velocities! It has functionally infinite ammo, no recoil and comes with a fire selector! Who knows what it will fire? It could be raw sewage, electrical appliance shrapnel, even spent fuel rods, all determined by the user's Fate stat! It may not be able to pierce battleplate, but against groups of likely armored foes, it is UNPARALLELED! Suppress enemies until they drown in filth! Cut down whole swarms of combat drones! All in a compact little package! Sure, its raw components cost 19 tokens in total, but we're sure we can get the planets that benefit from it to chip in and MASSIVELY subsidize the cost! Approve one today!

Okay, so the design is as follows: You place a Pocket Dimension entrance on a planet and let them dump all of their assorted waste into it, the planet's government agrees to subsidize the cost in exchange for having a quick and easy way to get rid of their waste. The Pocket Dimension exit will, upon being opened, eject some of that waste in front of a Matter Saver that then, as quickly as possible, saves and loads the matter at high velocities, propelling it forwards. This should be fast enough to provide a high rate of fire, which combined with its effectively limitless ammunition, makes it superb for suppressive fire. It would count as a conventional weapon, but when firing, it would use a Fate roll to determine what exactly it is that comes out of the exit.
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renegadelobster

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1807 on: January 27, 2016, 06:14:56 pm »

((Heh. I whole heartedly support, and approve of this idea.))
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1808 on: January 27, 2016, 06:19:57 pm »

Yeah, that's a very good idea.
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Nikitian

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1809 on: January 27, 2016, 06:41:00 pm »

I like this!  ;)
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Grunhill

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1810 on: January 27, 2016, 09:07:45 pm »

Idea for a new Shockwave bat.

Put an Force infuser in a bat. The button would be in one of the sides.
To charge, the user should just move around.
For the cost, should be the price of 1 force infuser + 1 token for the changes, so 3 tokens
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syvarris

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1811 on: January 28, 2016, 11:54:01 pm »

Okey Dokey, not sure how to bullet point effeciently but ill give it a shot.

Monoblades
1.) My monoblades are meant to improve damage for everyone, even Renen.
I get your point about the projector getting in the way lessening the damage, thats why i moved the blades so that only a small portion is in front of it.
basically my halberd is now closer to a bardiche, both designs now have a "low" damage redundancy section in front of the projector and a high damage cleaving section above it.
That way the projector only gets in the way of the cut with low uncon/dex rolls such as 2's and 3's and on a 4+ the projector stays in front of the enemy while the blade passes through them.

2.) yay full sized Kilij, thanks.

Armors
unfortunately piecewise has stated he doesnt wanna do armor anymore, so youre the lucky guy i get to pester about it. :P

3.) Im not sure i got my idea across properly about the lattice, the reduction in strength probably would not be all that significant. sure, you are striking a point with a smaller surface area than a standard plate, but it still has the strength of all the material behind it and all the material that is behind the material that is supporting that material and so forth.
Basically your shooting something that actively spreads out the kinetic force over a large portion of the plate, instead of something that tries to tank it all in one spot.

Lattices are hard to explain... Basically im expecting to be be more weight efficient for the same protection, but less efficient by size or volume.

4.) As for the hexsand, i know weve had a miscommunication here. It is not meant to be spread out at all.
It is meant to fill the voids in the hexbug lattice and flow around all the lattice struts forming a single contiguous plate, albiet one with lots of small wireframe hexbug pyramids in it.

5.)Yeah the Cryotic rods had a range of a few inches, so youd probably need one every 8 inches or so.
ill go pester piecewise about the price of the cryotic carbon rods, kinda expecting this one to be a bit expensive.
update:
THe expensiveness level of using mass produced cryotic rods is... "Not very..."

Neat idea I forgot about, Headcrab mobility system.
5.) Cant believe I forgot about this thing.
Basic idea here is to give the braincase mobility system a really sharp blade, possibly hydraulically driven, and a single universal limb port.

Now when your robo/synth body gets broken beyond repair you simply eject yourself and jump on the nearest schmuck you see, use the blade to sever their spinal cord through their neck, and the universal limb port slaves their central nervous system to your braincase giving you complete control over their body.

Monoblades:
1)I get what you mean.  It'll have advantages and disadvatages compared to both the traditional monosword and your previous design.  This design will probably have the best damage when used correctly, but still has the disadvantage of the projector being closer to your foe (and therefore easier to damage) compared to the original monosword, and it will be harder to use than your previous design.  None of this means it is inferior, just different.  Of course, PW's interpretation may end up being different in-game, but that applies to everything.

Armor:
3)...Okay, so by lattice you mean something like this, right?  The strength reduction would be significant.  It's easier to shear a bar than it is to shear an entire plate.  No getting around that.

4)Yeah, I thought you had meant the hexsand would be like the reflective fibers in BS plate.  Basically, I thought you were trying to replace the metal in warplate with hexbug.  What you're trying to do would work better, though it wouldn't be able to eat plasma, unless you're making it so thick the hexbug reinforcement doesn't matter.  I'm thinking having some connection between different masses of hexsand does not combine their energy eating properties, else we could just have a massive ball of hexsand inside the suit, and have tendrils leading to paint-thick exterior armor layers.

5)Okay.  Ask him how hexbug performs at temperatures of a few K.  I feel like hexbug would do well because it doesn't seem to be ductile at all at normal temps, but I honestly just don't know.  Also, explain to me how you'll insulate the cockpit.

As for price, I'll say that a single solid layer of hexbug with implanted cryo cylinders is equal in cost to a mobility AS' armor, and is as bulky as a normal AS' armor.  Council'll probably change that.

Headcrab:
6)Uh.  Okay.  I have no idea if a limb collector can work on an entire body, so ask PW about that.  While you're at it, ask what the required physical dimensions of a limb collector are, because I'm not sure one can comfortably fit on a braincase.  Lastly, what type of blade do you wanna put on this?  FF, monowire, normal knife?


Note:It is best if you remove excess quotes from your posts if they aren't needed for context, because I generally won't.  I write these up in a text file and then add in the quotes afterward.  This post wasn't a problem, but I could easily see this typeof thing creating some bad quote pyramids if left unchecked.

Let's go short version this time. I know, a shocker, right?

@syvarris

Sure. Just wanted to point out since you specifically called out "heat resistance". This adds to the point where I am slightly hazy on how exactly the lasers "cut", so yeah.

Brisant 1.5
To be honest, I don't really know what you implied by cut down variant in the discussion, but since I was undertaking it anyway, I hypothesised you meant the firing methods (which, I admit, are really hazy - is the current Brisant fired from the ground/braced or just held in arms? or even put on the shoulder for firing? those variants have all been implied in the past). I would still rather keep to "different variants, same price" philosophy, as it seems to be prominent and relevant in these days. So perhaps the "carbine" variant could be optimised for shorter range and aimed directly (and in that mostly equivalent to the current Hand Cannon from user's point of view), whereas the "mortar" variant would be optimised more for longer range, require bracing and be fired high-arc? (Does that last part even make any sense for a personal weapon? And, of course, exoskeleton users with their strength & stability would probably ignore bracing requirement. Dirty cheaters. :P )

As for concrete tech, yep, I do have it. Here, under "Technology", third line. They were developed quite some time ago, but Brisant predates even that. (And judging by neighouring entries, this is a significant upgrade.) Thanks for the work, RC!
Plus, as I said, hex-something-inner coating for barrels. I know that it was one of the limits for gauss weapons in the past that barrels/coils could be damaged through regular use (especially if the shot was overcharged, for example), so I'd like to use that as a reason why using hex-barrels might be economically feasible and actually make them cheaper.


Also, uhhh, Maurice's name? Why?..

...Okay, you really need bullets.  You've got seven question marks in that post, half of which seem to be rhetorical, and several statements which imply a question.

Regardless, you first seem to be asking about the difference between a standard and carbine variant.  Standard variant, to my mind, would be identical to the current brisant, while the carbine would be closer to the hand cannon.  Both cost the same.

You don't get a mortar variant without a price increase.  This is because the mortar would have to have a fairly significant power increase, due to the way PW's mind works.  He doesn't do minor tweaks; a gauss rifle with a foregrip is identical to a normal gauss rifle, despite the fact that it would be easier to fire from the hip.

As to the generator tech... I really, really hate that, and I vocalized that opinion back when we got it.  There was no reason for that upgrade--it was just "Scientists!  Go science and improve things!" and a month later the scientists unlocked Generator tech level 2.  Even beyond that, why would slightly improved generators cut the weapon's cost by 33%?

Using a different material with better properties is a much better way to convince me to cheapen things.  However, why would a barrel coating make the coils less likely to melt?  Are you giving them hexsand heatsinks?  Are you giving them frictionless hexground coatings, so that they don't have to work as hard?

Lastly, I was joking that I wouldn't expect Maurice to design the horrible flesh-melting aerosol grenades.

Brain Preservation Suit Upgrade
It senses when the wearer dies, then it pumps their head full of chemicals and submerges it in biogel. Exactly like the "brain box" except fully automated, and only works on the person wearing it.


The medic backpack version is a decent idea though, I'm asking the council about it.

Council! The designs keep piling up!

Other finished designs waiting for council, still in one post.
Spoiler: Heavy exoskeleton (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dragoncoat (click to show/hide)

Edit:
syyvarris, I want to argue with you about the electrolaser kit needing a handiwork roll. It is in a spoiler and not bolded though so you don't have to read it or respond if you don't want.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"...so you don't have to read it or respond if you don't want."

Are you kidding?  I love arguing!  Normally, I have to restrain myself because other people don't want to argue! :D

Spoiler: Response (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: buncha quotes (click to show/hide)
Alright. Anything else we need to do or should I submit this to the council for summary nerfing?

Nope.  Submit it to the council.

Design: Portable Emergency Room.

A design which implants a device into the user which, when biosensors detect massive & fatal trauma, activates a 1-shot pocket-dimension transfer to a predefined medical treatment area.
For an extra token, it can be activated manually



The idea being the natural evolution of all these brain case escape systems, combined with an equivalent for all the squishes out there who don't want their expensive genemods to go to waste.

Price is presumably high, but hopefully significantly less than the full PD generator.

Okay, you can get this as a mod to a regular pocket dimension for one token.  If you want a cheaper burnout pocket dimension, you have to ask PW, because I have no idea if such a thing is possible.

Quote
I... think so?  I'm having a remarkable degree of difficulty figuring out exactly what you're asking.

Do you want me to go over every tech that you're including in the autocolony thing, and say which bits work and which bits don't?  This is really a place where I'd love bullets and question marks.

Also, this monster put my post over the length limit.  So it gets to sit here all alone, because it's too fat to fit in with everyone else.  Just like a certain general we know.

I dunno either man, pw send me here. Didn't think this was anything that you would do, since it's not exactly a regular tinker thing or an armory entry, but here we are. I guess we can just go over every item one at a time, though I suspect there'll be a very large amount of 'ask pw'.  :-\

Hey, you take that back! Milno isn't that fat! He's just been slacking off of his diet, is all. And really, you wanted the context.


Spoiler: Blegh. (click to show/hide)

Universal Chem Thrower extra chemicals:
Doomsday, 10 uses canister, 1 token. Excellent against unarmored civilians.
Haebi Acid, 10 uses canister, 1 token. Makes avatar armor melt.
  Also requires one time purchase of 2 token forcefield shielding. Handle with care.
 
So how does this armory inclusion go?

You asking the council?  I can't decide jack about armory inclusion.

5 token avatar kill? Ewwwwwwww

It's not really a five token avatar kill, because you have a very limited supply of the stuff.  Yes, you can hurt an avatar, but an ant can hurt you too.

Also, you have to get fairly close to use the UCT.  Within easy reach, at least.

((Read the following with the voice of a wrestling announcer.))
Prrressenting... the newest squad automatic weapon, the DEFINITIVE solution to all our waste problems and a memorial to the fallen - the General Waste Gun, or GWG for short! You take all of a planet's waste and you pump it straight into a Pocket Dimension, you then feed it straight into a Matter Saver Cartridge, and then straight out, at ABSOLUTELY ludicrous velocities! It has functionally infinite ammo, no recoil and comes with a fire selector! Who knows what it will fire? It could be raw sewage, electrical appliance shrapnel, even spent fuel rods, all determined by the user's Fate stat! It may not be able to pierce battleplate, but against groups of likely armored foes, it is UNPARALLELED! Suppress enemies until they drown in filth! Cut down whole swarms of combat drones! All in a compact little package! Sure, its raw components cost 19 tokens in total, but we're sure we can get the planets that benefit from it to chip in and MASSIVELY subsidize the cost! Approve one today!

Okay, so the design is as follows: You place a Pocket Dimension entrance on a planet and let them dump all of their assorted waste into it, the planet's government agrees to subsidize the cost in exchange for having a quick and easy way to get rid of their waste. The Pocket Dimension exit will, upon being opened, eject some of that waste in front of a Matter Saver that then, as quickly as possible, saves and loads the matter at high velocities, propelling it forwards. This should be fast enough to provide a high rate of fire, which combined with its effectively limitless ammunition, makes it superb for suppressive fire. It would count as a conventional weapon, but when firing, it would use a Fate roll to determine what exactly it is that comes out of the exit.

This is... creative, I guess.  Why isn't the matter saver inside the pocket dimension, though?

Talk to PW regardless.  The primary hurdle for this gun is convincing a planet to dump its waste in your pocket.

Idea for a new Shockwave bat.

Put an Force infuser in a bat. The button would be in one of the sides.
To charge, the user should just move around.
For the cost, should be the price of 1 force infuser + 1 token for the changes, so 3 tokens


I don't see any problem with this, though the shockwave bat had a whole bunch of kinamps, whereas this only has one infuser.  I've always thought the multiple-kinamp idea was idiotic, but it actually would matter for force infusers because they each charge and discharge individually.

3t is fine.

Unholy_Pariah

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1812 on: January 29, 2016, 01:07:05 am »

Monoblades:
1)I get what you mean.  It'll have advantages and disadvatages compared to both the traditional monosword and your previous design.  This design will probably have the best damage when used correctly, but still has the disadvantage of the projector being closer to your foe (and therefore easier to damage) compared to the original monosword, and it will be harder to use than your previous design.  None of this means it is inferior, just different.  Of course, PW's interpretation may end up being different in-game, but that applies to everything.

Armor:
3)...Okay, so by lattice you mean something like this, right?  The strength reduction would be significant.  It's easier to shear a bar than it is to shear an entire plate.  No getting around that.

4)Yeah, I thought you had meant the hexsand would be like the reflective fibers in BS plate.  Basically, I thought you were trying to replace the metal in warplate with hexbug.  What you're trying to do would work better, though it wouldn't be able to eat plasma, unless you're making it so thick the hexbug reinforcement doesn't matter.  I'm thinking having some connection between different masses of hexsand does not combine their energy eating properties, else we could just have a massive ball of hexsand inside the suit, and have tendrils leading to paint-thick exterior armor layers.

5)Okay.  Ask him how hexbug performs at temperatures of a few K.  I feel like hexbug would do well because it doesn't seem to be ductile at all at normal temps, but I honestly just don't know.  Also, explain to me how you'll insulate the cockpit.

As for price, I'll say that a single solid layer of hexbug with implanted cryo cylinders is equal in cost to a mobility AS' armor, and is as bulky as a normal AS' armor.  Council'll probably change that.

Headcrab:
6)Uh.  Okay.  I have no idea if a limb collector can work on an entire body, so ask PW about that.  While you're at it, ask what the required physical dimensions of a limb collector are, because I'm not sure one can comfortably fit on a braincase.  Lastly, what type of blade do you wanna put on this?  FF, monowire, normal knife?


Note:It is best if you remove excess quotes from your posts if they aren't needed for context, because I generally won't.  I write these up in a text file and then add in the quotes afterward.  This post wasn't a problem, but I could easily see this typeof thing creating some bad quote pyramids if left unchecked.

Monoblades seem finished so we'll skip those and get nik to review them or something.

Ablative Armor
3.)That picture... not nearly what i was thinking of. :P
what i meant was something like this, but extending into a full plate shaped object, where the struts are thicker and made of hexbug and the empty spaces are filled with hexsand.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

4.) yeah this is a seperate armor layer, if i get it working right i might stick it behind my warplate to form something seriously beefy, but im not gonna mess with that when i know it already works.
The hexsand in this new armor as you can hopefully now see isnt a series of interconnected segments, its a big block of energy eating goodness that has some structural reinfocements to keep it from shattering at the first sign of trouble.
probably gonna aim for a 60/40 ratio of bug to sand as the kinetics have more impact so to speak.
Cryotic Armor
5.)Not quite sure about the insulation yet, i was simply checking to see if the armor itself was feasible.
Im thinking something along the lines of venting waste heat through or along the cockpits exterior plating, that way it keeps the cockpit warm and the cryotic rods cant force the armor itself all the way down to near zero kelvin.

Headcrab
6.) yeah word of piecewise would probably help
i dont really see any issues regarding the size of the port, its an adaptive material that can flow out and resize itself so you could probably get it to squish itself into a little ball or something when its not connected to anything.
Normal steel blade, that and the stock laser should get you the access you need.

((i feel like i need to explain my things better.))
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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

Nikitian

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1813 on: January 29, 2016, 03:27:20 am »

Ah, screw it. Tinkering to the very end! ((And Maurice doesn't have a shock implant. :P ))

@syvarris
Well, I did not use the bullet points, because those was never meant as separate things. More of a lump arguments. Also, I'd really like to finish Brisant here before Maurice is executed by Ulrich, since no one would ever care to deal with it later.


I am fine with the current/carbine versions for new Brisant (no mortar one, it was silly, I guess).


My arguments (not to be taken separately, but bulleted for your convenience):
  • Better generators. Yeah, we have them. Just like 2x stronger exoskeletons and better fuels that came from the same research. I believe the official reason for that was that we had been still using the Altered Wars-era designs and tech almost everywhere, and no one cared to upgrade them since then. So yes, now we have them, they are significantly better (don't know how much - TPU we have were given far earlier; but, as you said, Piecewise doesn't deal with "slight improvements"), and I think it's appropriate as an argument to lower the cost. (I mean, Piecewise himself approved this tech when he gave it to us.)
  • Hex-something (pure hex? hexsand? whichever works better) for barrel coating - to deal away with friction and extra damage to the barrel itself from the firing. More economical in the longer view, if anything (to reduce the support "repair" costs).
  • Hexsand for insulation and as heatsink for the charging circuit - to reduce the wear, again.
  • Cold-rods (fragments - I recall that they work if they are "under the specific size" and fragmenting preserves their qualities), if economically viable, as an alternative heatsinks tech (vs. the option above).

With the above arguments in mind, I would like to bring Brisant price down to 2 tokens. Do you think it is reasonable, or not?
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NAV

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Re: TINKER: Miya's Hubris
« Reply #1814 on: January 29, 2016, 10:07:22 am »

Brain Preservation Suit Upgrade
It senses when the wearer dies, then it pumps their head full of chemicals and submerges it in biogel. Exactly like the "brain box" except fully automated, and only works on the person wearing it.

You missed this.



Here's a deathtube. It's heavily based on Spazyak's design, so he gets any credit and tokens this makes.
Kinetic charge carbine
-Build a force infuser into a small rifle body. Uses Con. 2 tokens.
-A gauss piston repeatedly slams into the force infuser, charging kinetic battery. 1 token.
-Dial on the side lets you select the amount of kinetic energy to use for a shot.
-Fires any gauss rifle ammo.
-Total 3 token cost.

Do you see any problems with this?
It would take at most a couple seconds charging for a gauss rifle power shot. How long do you think it would take to crack milnoplate? Battlesuit? Assaultsuit? Avatar of war?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 10:49:51 am by NAV »
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The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.
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